England maybe leave EU june 23.

[Amsel_]

If the majority of people vote in a referendum to do something, do you think that that thing should be carried out? Do you think it is fine to ignore this vote, and can a government that does ignore the people's vote still call itself democratic?

It is not just that a government can do so. If the subject is too important and the consequences too bad, then it is the government's duty to do that!

Do you really think a government should follow the result of a referendum, e.g. when 60% of the citizens decide to enslave or kill the other 40%?
You cannot just ignore the content of the referendum itself!

Where do these representatives, who have the right to overrule the people, get their legitimacy from? What makes them the leaders?

[Dolan]

@Amsel_ It depends on that country's specific constitution. Some referendums are advisory only, others are binding. Those referendums from the Netherlands whose results you said were ignored by the Dutch government were advisory, not binding. Same for the Brexit referendum.

It's not that what "the people" want doesn't matter, the problem is if you call the people to pass judgement on very specialised subjects, that require someone to have in-depth knowledge of those subjects. Calling a referendum for people to pass judgement on monetary policy will not lead to an optimal decision on this subject. People will simply check the media for ready-made opinions on the subject and try to take their cues from there. And then they would vote on a specialised subject based on superficial impressions they got from reading arguments in the media.

You should definitely consult the people on basic fundamental topics, like rights. You shouldn't be able, as a government, to override their rights through legislation without asking them if this is legitimate. But asking them if the country should close a certain trade agreement? That's way beyond their pay grade.

[Horsemen]

What terrifies me the most about the state of this country is how c. 40% of voters at the last election willingly voted for a party whose current leadership has openly endorsed political oppression and terrorism. At the moment we easily have the most unethical and morally depraved leadership in the Labour party in history - and yet scarily people are just fine with this and willing to let these people rise to power. There is no historical precedent for this in this country.

[gibson]

What terrifies me the most about the state of this country is how c. 40% of voters at the last election willingly voted for a party whose current leadership has openly endorsed political oppression and terrorism. At the moment we easily have the most unethical and morally depraved leadership in the Labour party in history - and yet scarily people are just fine with this and willing to let these people rise to power. There is no historical precedent for this in this country.

[Horsemen]

What terrifies me the most about the state of this country is how c. 40% of voters at the last election willingly voted for a party whose current leadership has openly endorsed political oppression and terrorism. At the moment we easily have the most unethical and morally depraved leadership in the Labour party in history - and yet scarily people are just fine with this and willing to let these people rise to power. There is no historical precedent for this in this country.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... -about-ira

“It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA.”

i.e. it's just fine to kill people to achieve a political objective. In fact, we should honour the people who do this

[fightinfrenchman]

I just found out Stacey has sand in my beef

[Dolan]

@Horsemen

[Horsemen]

@Horsemen

Yeah I’m scared af

[Riotcoke]

Absolute Genius

[fightinfrenchman]

Holy shit your country is so embarrassing.

[Riotcoke]

Holy shit your country is so embarrassing.

Better than beligum, that's pretty much a non country.

[Amsel_]

@Horsemen

This didn't age well.

[Dolan]

Well who is Farage and what has he achieved? He's living on EU money, while complaining about the EU. He never managed to get elected in the UK as an MP, but he keeps banging on about democracy. Democracy showed him the boot in the UK, where he was never considered good enough to represent any constituency. And before you tell me that the FPTP system doesn't allow that, then why is there one single green MP in the UK parliament? Why didn't Farage manage to achieve at least a similar feat?

Because he's all mouth and cheek. He has nothing to offer on domestic issues, so voters have never seen his theatricals relevant to shaping domestic policy. He's all about "EU this, EU that" nothing else. Meanwhile, if you follow the money, you see how much the EU actually costs the UK:



That's not even the net sum, it doesn't take into account the tax rebate and the money spent by the EU in the UK. So the actual net % is lower than 1%. But hey, the EU is such a big bad wolf, we can't do anything in the UK because of it. We found the source of all evil in this country, everything else was just excellent.

[gibson]

@Dolan i thought at one point you were pro brexit. Did you change your mind or am I just thinking of someone else?

[Dolan]

@gibson
I'm neither pro nor against it, because it's up to the UK to decide. And they made their choice, so they should just leave.

But that doesn't mean I don't notice that the arguments used in the "Brexit" campaign weren't BS. Most people just don't know much about how the EU works. I don't blame them, it's a complicated subject. Most Brits who voted to leave the EU were uninformed, imo, and were venting their frustration that too many immigrants were coming to the UK.

[fightinfrenchman]

I'm neither pro nor against it, because it's up to the UK to decide. And they made their choice, so they should just leave.

But that doesn't mean I don't notice that the arguments used in the "Brexit" campaign weren't BS.

Would you say you're pro- or anti-thin text?

[Dolan]

I'm pro regular.

[fightinfrenchman]

I'm pro regular.

What do you have against Superdreadnought Rail Cannon Gustav Max?

[Dolan]

Too much sand in its orifices.

[Dolan]

On the other hand, come to think of it, it's good that someone like Farage exists. The EU needs to be challenged and criticised, just like anything else.

Even though what he says is complete rubbish.

[Horsemen]

socialism is a terrorist ideology

[fightinfrenchman]

socialism is a terrorist ideology

What does this even mean

[Horsemen]

fuck terrorists

[fightinfrenchman]

What

[Horsemen]

socialism is a terrorist ideology

What does this even mean

It achieves political aims by means of unsanctioned violence