Message from Diarouga

[n0el]

Hi, this is a message from diarouga, who wants to defend his case, since he's not allowed to do that here:

"As most of you might know, I'm banned from the next ESOC tourney.
I'm not here to debate whether my bans were deserved, I simply want to play in that tournament, and I do think that it is deserved:
The story starts at the end of December. I wanted to come back in ESOC as I changed my mind about the story: I still believed that my bans were totally unfair, but I also realised that I totally overreacted to the first perma-ban.
After 3 weeks of "negociation" with the ESOC admins, we came to an agreement: I wouldn't be allowed in the 2v2 invitational (eventhough I helped with the organisation), since too many staff members claimed they would leave the staff else, but, after helping with the patch (me and Hazza were the only who wanted to test the patch, and we played about 30-35 games (most are recorded), which took us a lot of time), I would be allowed in the big 1v1 tourney.

20 days ago, bramboy sent me this message:

"So, there's been a lot of confusion about your ban. Initially we decided that you hadn't served enough time and that you were to remain banned until the next tournament, providing you showed good behavior. Unfortunately our totalitarian friends in the business team decided to scrap that and tell you that you were going to be unbanned. That isn't going to happen, unfortunately for you. We're working on our internal communication and tasks delegation to make sure this doesn't happen again, but I expect you to receive an apology from the business team in the near future.

Currently, there's still a lot of struggles within the team. The majority is convinced that the original solution (ban until next tourney) should stay in place, and the other side keeps insisting on your unban, even though they've shown no arguments. I expect that you will not be able to participate in this tournament. I'm not writing this to rub it in, I'm writing this to clear up the situation for you since you must be pretty confused. My advice to you is to stop harassing people, regardless of whether or not they're staff, and to remain respectful in general to everyone. If our mutual acquaintances in the business team decide to let you play anyways, half of the staff have vowed to leave, so I don't expect them to do that. Business team's authority is being diminished"

Which surprised me quite a lot, because n0eL told me that the deal was still working. I was also very disappointed by the extremly immature behaviour of the staff team. Seriously, blackmailing the admins because they want to let someone play in a tournament, how old are you? It's very disrespectful, and if anything can explain what I did in the past (I've never hacked ESOC by the way), it's that kind of behaviour.
Frankly, how would you feel, if after investing a lot of time in the game, and in ESOC, you weren't allowed to play in a tournament because some people hate you? Most would probably react better than I did, but all this hate made me mad.

The worst thing is that it hurted me personally, I used to consider most of these guys as my friends.
Before bram sent me this message, we used to play a lot together on Starcraft II, and some messages such as "I'm all for it if they can't play", answering to a joke I made about knush and me replacing a missing team, or "I genuinely like you" explain why I felt like that.

When I say that I took that personally, it's not only because of the decision, but also because of the offensive writing style:
"we decided that you hadn't served enough time" What does it mean? Am I a slave for ESOC? It looks like I am. Some staff members even told me that I shouldn't help ESOC with the patchx considering how the staff treats me.
And how can I trust them? We made a deal, and I did help them, what tells me the will allow me in the next tourney? I was banned from the 2v2 invitational because of a staff blackmail, and now it's the same. Honestly, it's going to be the exact same thing next tournament.


After that, how can one claim that I should be banned because I haven't respected some staff member's work? At least they are thanked by the community, I'm permanently banned.

Finally, the last sentence disappointed me a lot. Bramboy, when he was my friend, or acting as if he were idk, told me: "don't be blackmailed, it's bullshit", and that's what he, and some others, are doing, sigh.

Until recently, I was still quite confident, and I was convinced that I would be allowed to play.
Indeed, n0eL told me "just ignore him", when I sent him Bramboy's message. Unfortunately for me, n0eL left the staff (probably because of that kind of issues), and the only guys in the staff who recall of that deal are _H2O and Mitoe, but they don't want to force the decision.

I know that this message won't change the done, as only the staff can make the decision, but I want the community to know what has happened, and please, don't be so hard with me, I know I've hurted the community but try to understand my reactions :(

@Jaeger @deleted_user4 @giveuanxiety @SoldieR

[Gichtenlord]

BlahBlah. Diarouga behaved poorly for several months. It's his own fault for being temporary banned from esoc and any esoc event.

[momuuu]

EDIT: never mind

[Goodspeed]

Forgetting all the drama, as a viewer I just think it's a shame that one of the best players in the game right now is not allowed in a competitive tournament. Perhaps considering the size of the community ESOC should consider separating tournament bans from forum bans.

[deleted_user0]

standing up for and acting on your principles is blackmail? no wonder we are having this discussion all the time, since people are so obviously confused about their moral values.

[Goodspeed]

standing up for and acting on your principles is blackmail? no wonder we are having this discussion all the time, since people are so obviously confused about their moral values.

Threatening to leave staff to get your way is blackmail. I've seen it happen too often in ESOC history, and it's very destructive both to the team spirit and to the community. As with any decision, this should either be put to a vote within staff or be decided by the person who is end responsible for the site which I suppose would be the "Business team". Principles shminciples. Yours may not match mine and how do you decide who's right? Again, I can see why ESOC wouldn't allow Diarouga back on the forums, but the whole "forum ban = tournament ban" is not necessarily the right way to do it in a community as small as this. Plus his efforts in testing EP3 should get him at least some leeway. I'll remind you that literally no one else was willing to test it, and without Diarouga and Hazza we would not have a patch right now.

[Dsy]

Even if he is rude and disrespectful some times (he was never with me) he should be allowed play on tournament especially if he helped playtesting the game...
If you accpeted his help you have no other choice but let him play... If yo uare fair.

[Atomiswave]

Justice for Diarouga!

Also, i concur with goodspeed comment, community is way to small to lose good players.

[ListlessSalmon]

I agree with everything goodspeed said as well.

Also while I seem to have arrived in the community too late to miss the bad here, in my interactions with diarouga he has been universally helpful (helping with Site's various projects, explaining mu's to me, sharing replays, playing games vs me etc. and apparently he did a lot of testing for the patch) so it would be nice to see him be able to be unbanned eventually.

[momuuu]

I just wish people had the full picture of diarouga and not just what he puts out to the world. It may or may not affect your opinion, but I feel like it's information required to judge.

[deleted_user0]

standing up for and acting on your principles is blackmail? no wonder we are having this discussion all the time, since people are so obviously confused about their moral values.

Threatening to leave staff to get your way is blackmail. I've seen it happen too often in ESOC history, and it's very destructive both to the team spirit and to the community. As with any decision, this should either be put to a vote within staff or be decided by the person who is end responsible for the site which I suppose would be the "Business team". Principles shminciples. Yours may not match mine and how do you decide who's right? Again, I can see why ESOC wouldn't allow Diarouga back on the forums, but the whole "forum ban = tournament ban" is not necessarily the right way to do it in a community as small as this. Plus his efforts in testing EP3 should get him at least some leeway. I'll remind you that literally no one else was willing to test it, and without Diarouga and Hazza we would not have a patch right now.

good to know that doing some good things for esoc should get you special priviliges in the minds of some ppl.

This is how it works in every normal society. If you break the rules of a special segment of society, for example the Basketball Association, you will be banned from that. However, if you break the general rules of society, you will be banned from society all together. Diarouga did the latter, the rules were clear. Its fine that hes doing stuff to redeem himself, and im not against second chances, but hes already past that. Using the size of the community as an argument to allow transgressions is just silly and puts you on a slippery slope at the bottom of which you will not be able to really draw any lines on what is allowed and what isnt. Yes, its sad that a top contender isnt allowed to play, but its not as sad as his behaviour towards other people has been. And they didnt do anything to deserve the treatment he gave them, while he has done everything to deserve the punishment hes got.

The staff wouldnt have to say they will leave if the business team backtracks on their decisions every time there is some controversy just because they wont grow a spine and handle things. They are left with no other choice, just as I was not left with a choice when it came to breezebrothers. I did the same thing and I would do it again, because i'm not left with any other tools at my disposal to make clear that there are boundaries, and some of them I will not allow to be crossed. I reckon those staff members are in a similar position now.

Its funny that diarouga is talking about disrespecting people when hes not really ever shown that he understands the concept of respect.

[pecelot]

Principles shminciples. Yours may not match mine and how do you decide who's right?

You basically diminish any objective truths here

[jesus3]

message from jesus: Hi :)

[deleted_user0]

Principles shminciples. Yours may not match mine and how do you decide who's right?

You basically diminish any objective truths here

objective truths got nothing to do with it. he agreed to some rules, and he should keep to those. that's all. atleast some people in the staff will see to it they are kept, because it seems the business team wont.

[momuuu]

Principles shminciples. Yours may not match mine and how do you decide who's right?

By making site rules.

[deleted_user0]

This is quite ridiculous case.

Ryan shows no respect to even try to play grand final games to the end
Some of the ESOC members show no respect in tournaments. For example arriving 30 mins late when your opponent is in a rush.

These cases are completely ignored and then a guy who has always done everything correctly gets banned from A TOURNAMENT because of some forum drama?

Just like the way here on forums. My jokes get deleted and I get warned, meanwhile other guy posts the same joke and everyone finds it hilarious. Not a biased system or anything.

[momuuu]

This is quite ridiculous case.

Ryan shows no respect to even try to play grand final games to the end
Some of the ESOC members show no respect in tournaments. For example arriving 30 mins late when your opponent is in a rush.

These cases are completely ignored and then a guy who has always done everything correctly gets banned from A TOURNAMENT because of some forum drama?

Just like the way here on forums. My jokes get deleted and I get warned, meanwhile other guy posts the same joke and everyone finds it hilarious. Not a biased system or anything.

Diarouga has done everything correctly? Do you know he threatened to sign up many smurfs to this tournament if he wouldnt get his way? Thats just the most recent misstep.

Not sharing an opinion, but just stating a fact here and correcting an incorrect statement by you.

[deleted_user0]

Garja has threatened to fuck my mother but that was not a big deal. Just let him play and he won't do it.

[momuuu]

If you give in to a kid that tries to blackmail you, he will continue showing such behaviour. When raising kids, its advised that you never reward any behaviour like that.

Do with this wisdom as you want.

Also Id like to openly doubt your statement that garja has done such. I have never seen that reported so it must have happened outside esoc in which case it seems relatively irrelevant.

[fightinfrenchman]

Diarouga has done some bad stuff but I think we all know there are people on the forums who have done worse and not received a punishment for it. I say let him and cheadar in the tournament.

[benj89]

@momuuu isn't it you who wrote "honestly I hope you die" to a basement member? I find it worse than diarouga saying to n word to umeu or saying that he's gonna smurf a tourn for which he created the patch. Were you punished in any way for saying that? Do you want us to emphasize for months on how retarded that statement was, or move on and focus on the work you are currently doing as part of the media team, what seems more constructive to you?

He made mistakes yet did some solid work for the community, ban him from forums for some time since he has issues to behave correctly and seems to take longer than average to learn a lesson, but not from a tournament. There are 2 big tournaments per year (and there shouldn't be more), banning a top3 player from one is just wrong imo, especially when you consider how this whole situation started with garja.

[momuuu]

There was a certain behaviorial pattern that Diarouga exhibited that led to a ban and even very recently he has shown to be persisting in that pattern. Even this post is really typical for him. If you then were to consider the ban, why he was banned and how he has behaved afterwards, and consider the rule that was agreed upon that banned people cant play in tournaments, then you could reach the reasonable conclusion that you'd not let someone play in a tournament.

That are the facts. "this whole situation started with garja" is not a fact, thats a lie spread by diarouga. He's rather keen on manipulating the truth, trying to make esoc seem bad and himself seem innocent or at least more innocent than he is. At least, thats how it appears to me.

Disclaimer: I am not stating an opinion, I am merely shedding light on the factual background of this case, something that might not be very clear to many here.

[benj89]

There was a certain behaviorial pattern that Diarouga exhibited that led to a ban and even very recently he has shown to be persisting in that pattern. Even this post is really typical for him. If you then were to consider the ban, why he was banned and how he has behaved afterwards, and consider the rule that was agreed upon that banned people cant play in tournaments, then you could reach the reasonable conclusion that you'd not let someone play in a tournament.

Indeed I don't know much about this situation, but I think this whole "moral" approach like if we were dealing with a society at large isn't appropriate, when a handful of people are willing to do meaningful/time consuming work for the community. As goodspeed already mentioned, a vote among all the staff members could have been a way to deal with this situation.

That are the facts. "this whole situation started with garja" is not a fact, thats a lie spread by diarouga. He's rather keen on manipulating the truth, trying to make esoc seem bad and himself seem innocent or at least more innocent than he is. At least, thats how it appears to me.

Yet I have a feeling you dont know much about this situation neither. I'm pretty sure people who were involved in it agree that he was unfairly treated to begin with.

[Jaeger]

How about make a compromise? If Diarouga gets 1 2 or 3rd place, he only gets half the money?

[benj89]

How about make a compromise? If Diarouga gets 1 2 or 3rd place, he only gets half the money?

no that's wrong