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Canada Jam
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Post by Jam »

drlegend wrote:
gibson wrote:Thats what Im saying. Survival of the fittest. Its been happening since the first microscopic life form breathed its first breathe( metaphorically of course) and is being carried on today by fozzybear
And Jam thinks I troll.
[video src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTZTnl-3ikk"][/video]
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

umeu wrote:
ivan wrote:Giving your password to a stranger in an online game is consensual (so to say). Rape is not. Not sure why you insist on this subject.

Sigh. You still dont get it. This is not about your naive actions being inherently immoral, its about you taking responsibility for them. Morality doesnt apply in this situation, because the victim isnt trying to help or harm anyone but itself. Morality of the victim in these kind of situations is as moot here as is the morality of a fish. Neither a fish nor the victim know better. But the victim should know better.
And whats so bad about being naive? Well, other than hurting yourself, you may hurt other individuals in other situations.

Well, duh, yeah. Where are you getting that we think the victim should be punished harder than the prey?


The rape is the end of the process, which compares to getting the acc stolen, not to giving the pw. Giving the pw is the equivalent of going to the party, since both put you voluntarily in a position where predators can take advantage of you. Its really not so hard... Your reasoning simply has consequences you do not want to accept. Which implies there is something intuitively wrong with it.

Blame has a moral origin and connotation. Same for right and wrong, so obviously its about morality.vwhen someone deserves to be punished its become he did something illegal or immoral, since its obvious that someone giving a pw isnt on the wrong side of the law, they must be on the wrong side of your morals when you say they deserve to have their acc stolen.

If the blame is shared by 2 parties obviously the punishment is shared accordingly, and the sentence thus diminished per person.
For last time, rape is not consensual. Giving your password or other personal data to strangers is not equivalent to helplessly letting someone physically abuse you. It is not equivalent because the former implies consent and a physical barrier, the latter implies neither. As I said before, a better analogy would be a guy in a bar tricking a girl into sex by pretending to be rich ...afterwards she finds out he isnt actually rich ....and she has to pay for his drinks.
Your equivalent is messed up and grossly exaggerates the premises, hence my reasoning doesnt apply, as my reasoning is obviously within certain boundaries which you choose to ignore. You parted from my point, which was "he kind of deserves the misery of lossing his own account for being too foolish and naive to trust such a stupid lie", and you said thats on par with saying a girl who went to a party deserves to get raped.
tl'dr you are using a strawman fallacy to refute my point, therefore your argument is invalid from the beginning. If you fail to acknowledge so I have no business further arguing with you.

As for blame... blame may apply outside legal or moral frameworks. e.g. If you eat a lot of junk food daily and never do any exercise, and you get fat, you are to blame for getting fat. This doesnt imply eating junk food is immoral or illegal. Blame just means to be responsible over something. No idea where you pull off the idea that "blame" is contained within legal or moral boundaries.
If you give your password to a stranger by believing it will do you good, you are to blame for being dumb enough to lose it, even though the other guy is to blame for stealing it.
However your actions arent immoral, because you arent affecting anyone else but yourself with your stupid decisions. His actions are however morally wrong, because he both deceived you and stole your account. And therefore the one who stole the account should be punished. The fool shouldnt.
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

jam wrote:
drlegend wrote:And Jam thinks I troll.
[video src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTZTnl-3ikk"][/video]
This is pretty much the best response to DLs posts I have seen so far.
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Post by deleted_user0 »

And again im saying you are comparing different parts of the analogy to each other, the wrong parts. You critisize someone for willingly putting themselves in a vulnerable position in one case, but not in another. Obviously the rape isnt consented to, otherwise its not a rqpe, obviously the acc theft isnt consented to, otherwise its not a theft. What you do is comparing giving the pw to getting abused, which is comparing oranges with apples, you are actually committing the phallacy... Giving the pw is putting oneself in a vulnerable position and is the irresponsible behaviour which leads you to say that person deserves what hes getting. How is this different from walking with an expensive camera in a bad neighbourhood, or going home with a stranger or getting drunk at a party etc, its not like ur forced to do that, so obviously its voluntarily

I concede on the blame part, the dutch word for guilt and blame is the same so i got the 2 confused.
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

umeu wrote:And again im saying you are comparing different parts of the analogy to each other, the wrong parts. You critisize someone for willingly putting themselves in a vulnerable position in one case, but not in another. Obviously the rape isnt consented to, otherwise its not a rqpe, obviously the acc theft isnt consented to, otherwise its not a theft. What you do is comparing giving the pw to getting abused, which is comparing oranges with apples, you are actually committing the phallacy... Giving the pw is putting oneself in a vulnerable position and is the irresponsible behaviour which leads you to say that person deserves what hes getting. How is this different from walking with an expensive camera in a bad neighbourhood, or going home with a stranger or getting drunk at a party etc, its not like ur forced to do that, so obviously its voluntarily

I concede on the blame part, the dutch word for guilt and blame is the same so i got the 2 confused.
Oh, so you mean giving your password is equivalent to going to a party where one can get raped, I thought you meant logging on ESO was equivalent to going to a party where one can get raped.
Alright, to be blunt I will say it really depends where you are going and with whom you are going out.
But what I said above still applies - stealing an account is nowhere equivalent to raping someone as far as it concerns me. For that reason the punishments are proportionally different - the former will get you banned from a game server, the later will get you jailed.
If you give out your password you should almost certainly expect to get your account stolen unless you can trust that person. In the other hand you must be hanging out with fucked up people if there is a serious risk on getting raped, because not only it implies someone might rape you, but it''s also implied others would turn the blind eye and not help you, which is fucked up - but certainly can happen.
For the sake of the analogy, yes, under certain conditions/parties with certain individuals, it can certainly happen. But I still don''t see the chances of getting raped nowhere near getting your aoe3 account stolen by Fozzybear - so your analogy is stupid anyway.
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Post by zbola »

ivan wrote:
umeu wrote:And again im saying you are comparing different parts of the analogy to each other, the wrong parts. You critisize someone for willingly putting themselves in a vulnerable position in one case, but not in another. Obviously the rape isnt consented to, otherwise its not a rqpe, obviously the acc theft isnt consented to, otherwise its not a theft. What you do is comparing giving the pw to getting abused, which is comparing oranges with apples, you are actually committing the phallacy... Giving the pw is putting oneself in a vulnerable position and is the irresponsible behaviour which leads you to say that person deserves what hes getting. How is this different from walking with an expensive camera in a bad neighbourhood, or going home with a stranger or getting drunk at a party etc, its not like ur forced to do that, so obviously its voluntarily

I concede on the blame part, the dutch word for guilt and blame is the same so i got the 2 confused.
Oh, so you mean giving your password is equivalent to going to a party where one can get raped, I thought you meant logging on ESO was equivalent to going to a party where one can get raped.
Alright, to be blunt I will say it really depends where you are going and with whom you are going out.
But what I have said before still appears really - stealing an account isnt equivalent to raping someone as far as it concerns me.
If you give out your password you should almost certainly expect to get your account stolen unless you can trust that person. In the other hand you must be hanging out with fucked up people if there is a serious risk on getting raped, because not only it implies someone might rape you, but its also implied others would turn the blind eye and not help you... its still different.
But for the sake of the analogy, yes, under certain conditions/parties with certain individuals its certainly possible to happen, just as its possible to get your account stolen if you give it to strangers.
I made a poll go vote.
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Post by Goodspeed »

I think a closer analogy would be if someone asked a woman to take her clothes off and she did, and then got raped. More ambiguous but it's still clear who is at fault.
Walking around with an expensive camera is not quite asking for it in the same way as giving someone your password...
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

calmyourtits wrote:I think a closer analogy would be if someone asked a woman to take her clothes off and she did, and then got raped.
Walking around with an expensive camera is not quite the same as giving someone your password...
+1
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Post by deleted_user0 »

calmyourtits wrote:I think a closer analogy would be if someone asked a woman to take her clothes off and she did, and then got raped. More ambiguous but its still clear who is at fault.?
Walking around with an expensive camera is not quite asking for it in the same way as giving someone your password...



There are different gradations obviously, they are principally the same though. We can use your analogy, doesnt really matter to me.

ivan wrote:
umeu wrote:And again im saying you are comparing different parts of the analogy to each other, the wrong parts. You critisize someone for willingly putting themselves in a vulnerable position in one case, but not in another. Obviously the rape isnt consented to, otherwise its not a rqpe, obviously the acc theft isnt consented to, otherwise its not a theft. What you do is comparing giving the pw to getting abused, which is comparing oranges with apples, you are actually committing the phallacy... Giving the pw is putting oneself in a vulnerable position and is the irresponsible behaviour which leads you to say that person deserves what hes getting. How is this different from walking with an expensive camera in a bad neighbourhood, or going home with a stranger or getting drunk at a party etc, its not like ur forced to do that, so obviously its voluntarily

I concede on the blame part, the dutch word for guilt and blame is the same so i got the 2 confused.
Oh, so you mean giving your password is equivalent to going to a party where one can get raped, I thought you meant logging on ESO was equivalent to going to a party where one can get raped.
Alright, to be blunt I will say it really depends where you are going and with whom you are going out.
But what I said above still applies - stealing an account is nowhere equivalent to raping someone as far as it concerns me. For that reason the punishments are proportionally different - the former will get you banned from a game server, the later will get you jailed.
If you give out your password you should almost certainly expect to get your account stolen unless you can trust that person. In the other hand you must be hanging out with fucked up people if there is a serious risk on getting raped, because not only it implies someone might rape you, but its also implied others would turn the blind eye and not help you, which is fucked up - but certainly can happen.
For the sake of the analogy, yes, under certain conditions/parties with certain individuals, it can certainly happen. But I still dont see the chances of getting raped nowhere near getting your aoe3 account stolen by Fozzybear - so your analogy is stupid anyway.



As mentioned above, there are gradations, and yes they are gradually different, hence different punisents, but theyre not principally different in your logic.

Its not about the chances of rape or theft happening, i just want to know if you think that the irresponsible girl who put herself in a risky situation by going to a strangers house, dressed as a ho and drunk as a skunk, who tool her clothes off, deserved that she got raped? And if not, why do the people who got their accs stolen do deserve it?
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

umeu wrote:
calmyourtits wrote:I think a closer analogy would be if someone asked a woman to take her clothes off and she did, and then got raped. More ambiguous but its still clear who is at fault.
Walking around with an expensive camera is not quite asking for it in the same way as giving someone your password...

There are different gradations obviously, they are principally the same though. We can use your analogy, doesnt really matter to me.

ivan wrote:Oh, so you mean giving your password is equivalent to going to a party where one can get raped, I thought you meant logging on ESO was equivalent to going to a party where one can get raped.
Alright, to be blunt I will say it really depends where you are going and with whom you are going out.
But what I said above still applies - stealing an account is nowhere equivalent to raping someone as far as it concerns me. For that reason the punishments are proportionally different - the former will get you banned from a game server, the later will get you jailed.
If you give out your password you should almost certainly expect to get your account stolen unless you can trust that person. In the other hand you must be hanging out with fucked up people if there is a serious risk on getting raped, because not only it implies someone might rape you, but its also implied others would turn the blind eye and not help you, which is fucked up - but certainly can happen.
For the sake of the analogy, yes, under certain conditions/parties with certain individuals, it can certainly happen. But I still dont see the chances of getting raped nowhere near getting your aoe3 account stolen by Fozzybear - so your analogy is stupid anyway.

As mentioned above, there are gradations, and yes they are gradually different, hence different punisents, but theyre not principally different in your logic.

Its not about the chances of rape or theft happening, i just want to know if you think that the irresponsible girl who put herself in a risky situation by going to a strangers house, dressed as a ho and drunk as a skunk, who tool her clothes off, deserved that she got raped? And if not, why do the people who got their accs stolen do deserve it?
I dont want to sound as a soulless bastard, but yes.
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Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

So many analogies in this thread. Clearly getting your aoe3 account stolen is comparable to being raped.
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Post by Goodspeed »

21

Btw I don't agree Ivan, no one deserves to get their account stolen for being clueless. We've all done stupid shit in our lives.
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Post by zbola »

calmyourtits wrote:21

Btw I don''t agree Ivan, no one deserves to get their account stolen for being clueless. We''ve all done stupid shit in our lives.
Thank you!
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Post by Goodspeed »

zbola wrote:
h2o wrote:he tried to get my account once. pretty funny guy
LOL , really Ryz0n thats so funny!
Hang on.
H2O is not Ryzon, his name just happens to be Ryan too.
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Post by zbola »

calmyourtits wrote:
zbola wrote:LOL , really Ryz0n thats so funny!
Hang on.
H2O is not Ryzon, his name just happens to be Ryan too.
I did not know that thanks
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Post by edeholland »

And Ryzons Twitter status is: --- h2o Rip | Ryz0n --- ~~ Microsoft Studios ~~ Making video games one wololol at a time -Opinions contained herein are mine alone-

For some reason.
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Post by Goodspeed »

Lol
That's confusing as shit
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Post by zbola »

edeholland wrote:And Ryzons Twitter status is: --- h2o Rip | Ryz0n --- ~~ Microsoft Studios ~~ Making video games one wololol at a time -Opinions contained herein are mine alone-

For some reason.
I thought the same thing
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Post by gibson »

calmyourtits wrote:21

Btw I don''t agree Ivan, no one deserves to get their account stolen for being clueless. We''ve all done stupid shit in our lives.
Not saying that they necessarily deserve to have their account stolen, but they certainly had it coming and shouldn''t be surprised when they try to log in and can''t. I mean would you really be surprised if you gave a complete stranger your apartment key and all your stuff disappeared?
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Post by zbola »

gibson wrote:
calmyourtits wrote:21

Btw I dont agree Ivan, no one deserves to get their account stolen for being clueless. Weve all done stupid shit in our lives.
Not saying that they necessarily deserve to have their account stolen, but they certainly had it coming and shouldnt be surprised when they try to log in and cant. I mean would you really be surprised if you gave a complete stranger your apartment key and all your stuff disappeared?
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Post by deleted_user0 »

gibson wrote:
calmyourtits wrote:21

Btw I dont agree Ivan, no one deserves to get their account stolen for being clueless. Weve all done stupid shit in our lives.
Not saying that they necessarily deserve to have their account stolen, but they certainly had it coming and shouldnt be surprised when they try to log in and cant. I mean would you really be surprised if you gave a complete stranger your apartment key and all your stuff disappeared? ?



Yes i would be surprised, as i rightfully should. Strangers have given me their appartment keys and left me alone in their house and i never took a thing, and i doubt they expected anything else. Most people arent deceitful dangerous dirty thieving bastards you know
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Post by zbola »

umeu wrote:
gibson wrote:Not saying that they necessarily deserve to have their account stolen, but they certainly had it coming and shouldnt be surprised when they try to log in and cant. I mean would you really be surprised if you gave a complete stranger your apartment key and all your stuff disappeared?

Yes i would be surprised, as i rightfully should. Strangers have given me their appartment keys and left me alone in their house and i never took a thing, and i doubt they expected anything else. Most people arent deceitful dangerous dirty thieving bastards you know
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Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

11
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Post by gibson »

umeu wrote:
gibson wrote:Not saying that they necessarily deserve to have their account stolen, but they certainly had it coming and shouldnt be surprised when they try to log in and cant. I mean would you really be surprised if you gave a complete stranger your apartment key and all your stuff disappeared?

Yes i would be surprised, as i rightfully should. Strangers have given me their appartment keys and left me alone in their house and i never took a thing, and i doubt they expected anything else. Most people arent deceitful dangerous dirty thieving bastards you know
You might not be a thieving Bastard, but someone who is impersonating a reputable company in order to gain access to your house likely is.
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Post by deleted_user0 »

Except i havent, but there are many ways to rome

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