People who smoke weed are bad

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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by milku3459 »

pecelot wrote:That's what the polls said :roll:


polls said hillary would win


I don't think I'd make it illegal to smoke weed, but I wouldn't do it myself. you lose some control over your senses and your actions...as a christian I want to be in control of what I do because it's hard enough to do the right thing when you're perfectly in control anyways, let alone intoxicated. :?
it just feels very wrong to solely chase after pleasure for it's own sake. Eating or cooking nice food (as I enjoy doing) is different because it's an elevated form of eating, something you need to live. You're just doing it in a nicer way.
But weed is consumed just to get high and feel good (in a recreational sense).
i'd just prefer not to mess with my mind on purpose
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Poland pecelot
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by pecelot »

milku3459 wrote:
pecelot wrote:That's what the polls said :roll:


polls said hillary would win

That's what I meant :mad:
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by Kaiserklein »

JoãoCésar wrote:While studies and researches on weed related health problems are still lacking, it can be harmful by causing, mainly, cardiac diseases, and also those reversible psychological effects that can even cause suicidal thought on people. I just don't understand the logic of why tobacco is legalized and marijuana is not though...

No one argued that weed is harmless though. It's obviously not going to improve your health. We're just saying that people are anyway going to smoke weed, be it legal or not, but that legalizing it shows some advantages (for example, a control of the quality of the weed, instead of people buying random shit in the streets ; so it would actually be healthier then).

JoãoCésar wrote:Imo, the reason why drug legalization needs to be the result of a well-studied, revised and thought-out decision is not in the so-called "drug war" but in the fact that it is quite costly for countries where health insurance is free, like Brazil or UK (Not applying so much to the US therefore). It is really annoying to know that part of the taxes you pay are being used just to try to save someone who spent his life self-destructing with cigarettes or alcohol.

So I think that drugs legalization requires some diseases to be excluded from the free Health care.

Well then it depends on the country I guess. But where I live, in France, if someone abused of weed and needs to be healed, he will be taken care of for free (= thanks to people's taxes). We don't let people die because their disease comes from something illegal, this is irrelevant for us, if someone needs health care then he will have it regardless of the cause (this also works for harder drugs btw). So keeping weed illegal won't change a thing here. Idk about other countries though.
But tbh with that kind of reasoning, you wouldn't heal someone who didn't put his safety belt in his car, or his helmet on his bike, because hey he was careless after all, so we won't pay for him.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by Snuden »

Happy 4:20!
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by dietschlander »

So I think that drugs legalization requires some diseases to be excluded from the free Health care.


A fine argument for legalisation right there. :maniac:
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Anyway, nuancing isn't your forte, so I'll agree with you like I would with a 8 year old: violence is bad, don't do hard drugs and stay in school Benj98
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by _NT_sven »

dietschlander wrote:@_NT_sven you fine sir should sit like a half hour down at at coffeeshop and see the succes of Dutch policies yourself... (most guests junked up and buy daily which is f*cked).

PS: you like Leiden? :)


Nah I stepped into the coffeeshop and disliked the environment immediately, just bought some with friends and tried out back in my house.
But the policy is about the product not the places where people use it. So I doubt if it's reasonable to argue about law based on daily experiences.

PS: Why not, especially this university.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by _NT_sven »

JoãoCésar wrote:
_NT_sven wrote:It's not drug. Didn't get addicted at all.

The definition of drug is not if it makes you addicted or not, but if it causes any biochemical changes in the body.
Kaiserklein wrote:I can't really see any drawback to make weed legal.
_NT_sven wrote:[...] why not just legalize it? Weed itself is nothing harmful..

While studies and researches on weed related health problems are still lacking, it can be harmful by causing, mainly, cardiac diseases, and also those reversible psychological effects that can even cause suicidal thought on people. I just don't understand the logic of why tobacco is legalized and marijuana is not though...

Imo, the reason why drug legalization needs to be the result of a well-studied, revised and thought-out decision is not in the so-called "drug war" but in the fact that it is quite costly for countries where health insurance is free, like Brazil or UK (Not applying so much to the US therefore). It is really annoying to know that part of the taxes you pay are being used just to try to save someone who spent his life self-destructing with cigarettes or alcohol.

So I think that drugs legalization requires some diseases to be excluded from the free Health care.


Thanks for your explanation - I learned something from you.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Kaiserklein wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:Also French people shouldn't be making fun of America for electing Trump when they're about to elect Le Pen.

In your dreams maybe


It's in my nightmares but after Brexit and Trump it seems more and more likely.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by n0el »

JoãoCésar wrote:
_NT_sven wrote:It's not drug. Didn't get addicted at all.

The definition of drug is not if it makes you addicted or not, but if it causes any biochemical changes in the body.
Kaiserklein wrote:I can't really see any drawback to make weed legal.
_NT_sven wrote:[...] why not just legalize it? Weed itself is nothing harmful..

While studies and researches on weed related health problems are still lacking, it can be harmful by causing, mainly, cardiac diseases, and also those reversible psychological effects that can even cause suicidal thought on people. I just don't understand the logic of why tobacco is legalized and marijuana is not though...

Imo, the reason why drug legalization needs to be the result of a well-studied, revised and thought-out decision is not in the so-called "drug war" but in the fact that it is quite costly for countries where health insurance is free, like Brazil or UK (Not applying so much to the US therefore). It is really annoying to know that part of the taxes you pay are being used just to try to save someone who spent his life self-destructing with cigarettes or alcohol.

So I think that drugs legalization requires some diseases to be excluded from the free Health care.


This is a legitimate concern but then you also shouldn't have free health care for anyone who eats red meat or processed foods or many other things. The first thing that's needs to happen is marijuana needs to be removed from schedule 1 drugs so legimate research can be performed. This will likely happen after it's legal in most of the country and North America.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by JoãoCésar »

Kaiserklein wrote:But tbh with that kind of reasoning, you wouldn't heal someone who didn't put his safety belt in his car, or his helmet on his bike, because hey he was careless after all, so we won't pay for him.

That's not the same thing... We have traffic police trying to avoid people who does not use seatbelt. To be the same reasoning the use of seatbelt would have to be optional. Besides this, the simple fact that more money is spent with those drug users (because they are more frequent and generally chronically ill) than with people who does not use a seatbelt who are in an accident makes it different.

I still think that when someone goes to buy drugs he should sign a kind of contract exempting the government from his health responsibility. It's not like the government would become evil by doing this, but it would better manage its resources.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by Dolan »

JoãoCésar wrote:While studies and researches on weed related health problems are still lacking, it can be harmful by causing, mainly, cardiac diseases, and also those reversible psychological effects that can even cause suicidal thought on people.

They're not really lacking, they're just not so advertised in the media, probably because it's not popular to write against cannabis use.

Here's an example of a well-made study on brain changes in long-term cannabis users:
Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2008 Jun;65(6):694-701. doi: 10.1001/archpsyc.65.6.694.

Regional brain abnormalities associated with long-term heavy cannabis use.

Yücel M1, Solowij N, Respondek C, Whittle S, Fornito A, Pantelis C, Lubman DI.

CONTEXT:
Cannabis is the most widely used illicit drug in the developed world. Despite this, there is a paucity of research examining its long-term effect on the human brain.
OBJECTIVE:
To determine whether long-term heavy cannabis use is associated with gross anatomical abnormalities in 2 cannabinoid receptor-rich regions of the brain, the hippocampus and the amygdala.
DESIGN:
Cross-sectional design using high-resolution (3-T) structural magnetic resonance imaging.
SETTING:
Participants were recruited from the general community and underwent imaging at a hospital research facility.
PARTICIPANTS:
Fifteen carefully selected long-term (>10 years) and heavy (>5 joints daily) cannabis-using men (mean age, 39.8 years; mean duration of regular use, 19.7 years) with no history of polydrug abuse or neurologic/mental disorder and 16 matched nonusing control subjects (mean age, 36.4 years).
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Volumetric measures of the hippocampus and the amygdala combined with measures of cannabis use. Subthreshold psychotic symptoms and verbal learning ability were also measured.
RESULTS:
Cannabis users had bilaterally reduced hippocampal and amygdala volumes (P = .001), with a relatively (and significantly [P = .02]) greater magnitude of reduction in the former (12.0% vs 7.1%). Left hemisphere hippocampal volume was inversely associated with cumulative exposure to cannabis during the previous 10 years (P = .01) and subthreshold positive psychotic symptoms (P < .001). Positive symptom scores were also associated with cumulative exposure to cannabis (P = .048). Although cannabis users performed significantly worse than controls on verbal learning (P < .001), this did not correlate with regional brain volumes in either group.
CONCLUSIONS:
These results provide new evidence of exposure-related structural abnormalities in the hippocampus and amygdala in long-term heavy cannabis users and corroborate similar findings in the animal literature. These findings indicate that heavy daily cannabis use across protracted periods exerts harmful effects on brain tissue and mental health.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18519827

Full text:
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsy ... cle/482744
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by JoãoCésar »

Dolan wrote:They're not really lacking, they're just not so advertised in the media, probably because it's not popular to write against cannabis use.

This study was done with just a few people, so cannot be scientifically generalized to the whole population. Yet.
And I didn't say there were no studies about it, but that they were a few.

But I'm glad you showed me this article ^^
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by Kaiserklein »

JoãoCésar wrote:That's not the same thing... We have traffic police trying to avoid people who does not use seatbelt. To be the same reasoning the use of seatbelt would have to be optional. Besides this, the simple fact that more money is spent with those drug users (because they are more frequent and generally chronically ill) than with people who does not use a seatbelt who are in an accident makes it different.

I still think that when someone goes to buy drugs he should sign a kind of contract exempting the government from his health responsibility. It's not like the government would become evil by doing this, but it would better manage its resources.

What ? It's exactly the same. If police sees you without seatbelt, they (theoretically) stop you and punish you (for example a fine). If police sees you with a joint, they do the same, just the punishment is usually different. I don't see the difference here.
About the money thing, are you even sure about this ? And it was anyway an example, you can put anything else instead. I could say that taking your car without it being absolutely necessary for you is irresponsible because it's one of the first causes of death, so people should not be cared about when they had a car accident when they could instead have used another kind of transport. And it would be worth much more money, as well as protecting the environment + other people who don't even drive a car and might be victim of the accident. How about that ? And there are tons of other stupid examples like this.

And anyway, what would happen if you really did this ? Let's say you mostly have 2 kind of people who smoke weed :
1) those who are not addicted and don't smoke a lot of it so they will anyway have no health problems
2) those who are addicted and will not stop it, regardless of health problems
Of course some will stop but most likely not the majority. So it wouldn't even solve the problem. And yes, it would save some money, but on the other hand a massive amount of people would die, which makes no sense.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by JoãoCésar »

Kaiserklein wrote:What ? It's exactly the same. If police sees you without seatbelt, they (theoretically) stop you and punish you (for example a fine). If police sees you with a joint, they do the same, just the punishment is usually different. I don't see the difference here.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I was comparing the situations considering that all drugs were legal.

Brasil spends $116 billion anually with JUST the problems related with alcohol (7,3% of whole PIB). $6,75 billion with tobacco related problems.
http://www.unifesp.br/reitoria/dci/publ ... 7-3-do-pib
http://www.estadao.com.br/noticias/gera ... mp-,880230

We spend a lot with accidents too, $12,8 billion (including police fuel, ambulance, hospital treatment, etc). Even with the traffic laws.
http://g1.globo.com/bom-dia-brasil/noti ... lhoes.html

That's why I'm saying that MAYBE the "drug war" is not the only point to think about when deciding to legalize drugs or not, see my point?
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well of course you need to think about everything when you legalize drugs, I agree on this point. Still disagree that you should let die people who have health issues coming from cannabis if they can't pay for their treatment.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by pecelot »

Kaiserklein wrote:
JoãoCésar wrote:While studies and researches on weed related health problems are still lacking, it can be harmful by causing, mainly, cardiac diseases, and also those reversible psychological effects that can even cause suicidal thought on people. I just don't understand the logic of why tobacco is legalized and marijuana is not though...

No one argued that weed is harmless though. It's obviously not going to improve your health.

It actually can :hmm:
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by QueenOfdestiny »

The question should be...

Why people smoke weed or take drugs or drink alcohol...
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

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Post by JakeyBoyTH »

queenofdestiny wrote:The question should be...

Why people smoke weed or take drugs or drink alcohol...

Because its fun
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

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Post by pecelot »

You certainly haven't played enough NR55 on Amazonia, my friend :idea:
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by momuuu »

The interesting thing is that regulations dont really seem to affect how many people use the drug.
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by QueenOfdestiny »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:
queenofdestiny wrote:The question should be...

Why people smoke weed or take drugs or drink alcohol...

Because its fun


Ahhhhh so funny
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

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Post by n0el »

queenofdestiny wrote:
JakeyBoyTH wrote:
queenofdestiny wrote:The question should be...

Why people smoke weed or take drugs or drink alcohol...

Because its fun


Ahhhhh so funny


Why do people play video games?
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by deleted_user »

..to get shittered?
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

Post by Laurence Drake »

Video games are for nerds
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Re: People who smoke weed are bad

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Real men play diplomacy and throw away the lives of their soldiers by butchering orders!

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