Germanwings airline crash

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Germanwings airline crash

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by _venox_ »

"Some men just want to watch the world burn"
I'd say somebody got a mental problem, with a disturbed view on reality and irrational thoughts. I don't want to sound antipatic, but the only thing that differentiates the victims from everybody else dying in this world is the proximity and the media talking about it. So I care as much about them as about all the others who died that day. But yes, it's quite a heavy story.

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Post by Goodspeed »

I don't want to sound apathic

Are you even trying though?

Then again I feel the same way..
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by koenigerik1 »

It's not only the main topic in german news currently.. even more then that.. U hear about that every 20 mins the day
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

I'm more worried about the people who are going to die indirectly as a result of all the recent media attention being given to plane crashes.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Metis »

Every person has the right to try to preserve or to end their own life.

That said, ending the lives of others while intentionally ending your own shows that 1. you have fallen prey to religious indoctrination and are suffering from a religious delusion and/or 2. you are a selfish, inconsiderate, whiny little Momma's boy who should have just done the world a favor and killed yourself years ago.

A special case exists for the truly mentally ill sociopaths. However, even these need to be removed from society lest they do harm. You don't mollycoddle a malignancy.

Part of the blame lies on his trainers and employers who either failed to note that warning signs were there or due to their own incompetence, greed or fear of litigation didn't do anything about it.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Metis »

My sister used to work for Flight Safety. I got to spend a few hours in one of their commercial simulators. I've flown small planes VFR a bit but this was the first time in the "cockpit" of a jet. It amazed me how automated things are. Essentially the plane can either fly itself or be flown and even landed from the ground.

You can get into trouble if you second guess your instruments, even in a small plane. In a large, fly by wire aircraft, what you are essentially doing is suggesting to the computer what steps it should take. If you go past what you should you will get a warning. Many planes simply won't let you do things like put the plane into a suicide dive. With GPS sensors the computer also will understand that you can't descent to 100 ft. when the underlying terrain is at several thousand feet, However, the reason we have pilots is so that they can override a computer if needs be.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Metis »

"Fly-by-wire isn't quite computer aided flying"



Depends on the aircraft. Fly by wire may be something as simple as a joystick actuating a solenoid or as complex as I have mentioned -- sending commands that are evaluated and acted on by the computer. My pickup actually has a "fly by wire" gas pedal, which sends its position to the computer, which then actuates the proper controls on the engine. It also has a failsafe in the sense that it will cut the engine if it receives conflicting commands, such as someone stomping both the gas and brake at the same time.



Some aircraft, such as the F-117 and B-2 must be flown with computer assistance as a human simply can't respond fast enough to directly control these inherently unstable aircraft.


the B-2 uses a complex quadruplex computer-controlled fly-by-wire flight control system, that automatically manipulates flight surfaces and settings without direct pilot inputs in order to maintain aircraft stability
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Good ol Ivan »

I'm really curious as to what his intentions were.
I don't think it's that easy to get a mentally unstable individual get anywhere near the cockpit.
I'm left to think he wasn't depressed, but he did it because he could.
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Post by Papist »

ivan wrote:I''m really curious as to what his intentions were.
I don''t think it''s that easy to get a mentally unstable individual get anywhere near the cockpit.
I''m left to think he wasn''t depressed, but he did it because he could.
It really isn't as simple as "better screening". Naturally that is helpful, but I feel like people are too quick to point fingers in these kinds of situations. In the end, there is only so much the airline can do. If an airline screened out every single pilot who had ever had any sort of physical or mental ailment, there would be no more pilots.

Instead of tossing the blame around, do something productive, like provide complementary meetings with counselors and psychiatrists.

And yes, I agree with what has been said above. People die in accidents much more horrific than this and nobody gives a flying fuck. Kill a few thousand Palestinians in Israel or a few hundred Copts in Egypt, and nobody gives a shit. But crash an airliner with 200 people and it makes headlines around the world. People love to focus on the disasters with the most blood and guts.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Good ol Ivan »

papist wrote:People die in accidents much more horrific than this and nobody gives a flying fuck. Kill a few thousand Palestinians in Israel or a few hundred Copts in Egypt, and nobody gives a shit. But crash an airliner with 200 people and it makes headlines around the world. People love to focus on the disasters with the most blood and guts.
What makes you think so?
ISIS has spread plenty of blood and guts but few people know about ISIS, my friends only heard about them once they broke into a museum and destroyed ancient Assyrian and Akkadian statues :-S
I believe we focus on what we can "relate" with, regardless of the cruelty.
Say, what hurts more, the death of a familiar or the death of an African peasant? The death of a dog or the death of an insect?


It really isn't as simple as "better screening".
Instead of tossing the blame around, do something productive, like provide complementary meetings with counselors and psychiatrists.
Sounds like "better screening" to me.
However, I''m sure "screening" is already pretty strict in the EU or the U.S. - as I said before, I don''t think just anyone can get to fly a plane/get near the cockpit. Hence it''s interesting to think on what the guy''s intentions could have been.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

The problem is with the attitudes of our society, which inherently encourages depressed pilots to enter the cockpit of a plane and make a name for themselves by crashing it into a mountain. Emphasis should be placed on psychologically examining pilots on a regular basis, and pumping them full of meds to boost their mood and prevent them from ever harbouring destructive, suicidal thoughts. Until their emotions can be brought under control, we will all be in danger of becoming the victims of another person's anxieties - something that we, as a society, cannot reasonably be expected to tolerate on a collective level.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
No Flag Mr. Pecksniff
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

Logic will predominate. There can be no alternative.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Good ol Ivan »

frycookofdoom wrote:The problem is with the attitudes of our society, which inherently encourages depressed pilots to enter the cockpit of a plane and make a name for themselves by crashing it into a mountain.
What


Emphasis should be placed on psychologically examining pilots on a regular basis, and pumping them full of meds to boost their mood and prevent them from ever harbouring destructive, suicidal thoughts. Until their emotions can be brought under control, we will all be in danger of becoming the victims of another person''s anxieties - something that we, as a society, cannot reasonably be expected to tolerate on a collective level.
That sounds horrible/Orwellian as hell.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

Are you actually going to say something constructive, or should I just ignore you and pretend you didn't make that post?
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Good ol Ivan »

I asked you to elaborate on the first part.
As for the second part, there's not much to add, really - but since you asked so kindly:
It's not like pilots never undergo psychological examinations. Disregarding terrorist attacks/kamikaze, it's the first time I hear about an intentional plane crash - and I just don't think pumping pilots full of drugs in order to boost their mood is the solution. I believe that could cause other "kinds" of accidents.
Forcibly medding people so they don't have suicidal thoughts is just both ridiculous and inhumane - if you think a guy's suicidal, highly depressive, or suffers from any other mental conditions which could risk the lives of other people- why not just fire him instead?
I only agree that psychologically examining pilots should be compulsory, indeed.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

ivan wrote:I asked you to elaborate on the first part.
As for the second part, there''s not much to add, really - but since you asked so kindly:
It''s not like pilots never undergo psychological examinations. Disregarding terrorist attacks/kamikaze, it''s the first time I hear about an intentional plane crash - and I just don''t think pumping pilots full of drugs in order to boost their mood is the solution. I believe that could cause other "kinds" of accidents.
Forcibly medding people so they don''t have suicidal thoughts is just both ridiculous and inhumane - if you think a guy''s suicidal, highly depressive, or suffers from any other mental conditions which could risk the lives of other people- why not just fire him instead?
I only agree that psychologically examining pilots should be compulsory, indeed.



You have no real arguments here.

The unintended side effects of medicating pilots is irrelevant. What we''re discussing here is not whether pilots can be medicated, but whether they should be in order to prevent disasters. Questioning our ability to treat them successfully is besides the point.

Nobody is going to be forcibly medicated. Pilots will of course have to provide their voluntary agreement before any kind of treatment can begin. There is nothing ridiculous or inhumane about my proposed solution.

Also, our society clearly encourages people to take their lives in a glamorous, headline-grabbing fashion. It happens all the time, and repeatedly people do it because it allows them to make an impact on the world, preventing them from fading away into obscurity. None of us would even be talking about this pilot if he hadn''t deliberately crashed that plane, and the same thing applies to every person who has ever gone on a shooting spree and had their name appear in the media the following day.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by _venox_ »

It shouldn't make a difference in preventing crashes based on whether or not it was intended. After one big crash planning to medicate every pilot seems too radical and in the end not worth the cost. A quite stupid comparison would be to never attend school again and be home-schooled just because a week ago there was a gun rampage.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Good ol Ivan »

The unintended side effects of medicating pilots is irrelevant.
they are not? Don't you think it can be somewhat dangerous to "medicate" a pilot so he "does a better job"?


What we're discussing here is not whether pilots can be medicated, but whether they should be in order to prevent disasters.
Well of course they can, but why let mentally unstable people fly planes in the first place?


Also, our society clearly encourages people to take their lives in a glamorous, headline-grabbing fashion. It happens all the time, and repeatedly people do it because it allows them to make an impact on the world, preventing them from fading away into obscurity. None of us would even be talking about this pilot if he hadn't deliberately crashed that plane, and the same thing applies to every person who has ever gone on a shooting spree and had their name appear in the media the following day.
How are they "encouraged"? Why is it so important to make a name of yourself, specially if it's through this kind of means? Once you are dead, why should this be so relevant or important?
Besides, just who would remember this incident in ~100 years?


None of us would even be talking about this pilot if he hadn't deliberately crashed that plane
Yes, so?
Murderers have always been of note, one way or the other. Murderers can't simply be ignored in a civilized society


the same thing applies to every person who has ever gone on a shooting spree and had their name appear in the media the following day.
I believe most people who go on shooting sprees do it for the sake of some kind of vendetta. While others do it to send a message.


I don't see why are you assuming people murder others for the sake of receiving attention.
Sure some people feel this need to stand out of the crow, and the most deranged ones pick the most unconventional and despicable ways - but that's just... moot. And I don't see it as encouraging.
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Germanwings airline crash

Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

ivan wrote:
The unintended side effects of medicating pilots is irrelevant.
they are not? Don''t you think it can be somewhat dangerous to "medicate" a pilot so he "does a better job"?


What we''re discussing here is not whether pilots can be medicated, but whether they should be in order to prevent disasters.
Well of course they can, but why let mentally unstable people fly planes in the first place?


Also, our society clearly encourages people to take their lives in a glamorous, headline-grabbing fashion. It happens all the time, and repeatedly people do it because it allows them to make an impact on the world, preventing them from fading away into obscurity. None of us would even be talking about this pilot if he hadn''t deliberately crashed that plane, and the same thing applies to every person who has ever gone on a shooting spree and had their name appear in the media the following day.
How are they "encouraged"? Why is it so important to make a name of yourself, specially if it''s through this kind of means? Once you are dead, why should this be so relevant or important?
Besides, just who would remember this incident in ~100 years?


None of us would even be talking about this pilot if he hadn''t deliberately crashed that plane
Yes, so?
Murderers have always been of note, one way or the other. Murderers can''t simply be ignored in a civilized society


the same thing applies to every person who has ever gone on a shooting spree and had their name appear in the media the following day.
I believe most people who go on shooting sprees do it for the sake of some kind of vendetta. While others do it to send a message.


I don''t see why are you assuming people murder others for the sake of receiving attention.
Sure some people feel this need to stand out of the crow, and the most deranged ones pick the most unconventional and despicable ways - but that''s just... moot. And I don''t see it as encouraging.



Don''t you at least think it''s convenient for the pilot that his life is receiving more attention than ever before now that he''s crashed a plane? There are plenty of ways for people to kill themselves, but this pilot happens to choose the one that gains him the most publicity, and that carries the greatest risk in the event of failure. Don''t you think there was at least some part of him that was tempted by our society''s obsession with mass murderers into performing this deed? Even if we aren''t consciously encouraging these types of things, we are at the very least actively providing people with incentives to pursue them by helping them propagate their ''message'' or ''vendetta'' through the mass media.

Also, there''s no way pilots can be ''unstable'' if properly medicated. My solution just gives pilots the option to continue to pursue their careers if they develop a psychological disorder, unlike in the present situation where pilots are driven to conceal signs of depression for fear of being thrown on the mass of the unemployed.

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