What is a reasonable salary out of college?

[WickedCossack]

because mckinsey/bcg/bain take a few ppl out of undergrad, most are post mbas, and when they do they are from h/p/y/s type of school, probably duke and 2-3 others. the reason why Im not sure, but the interview process is harder since you got to deal with cases. but it also depend which division in ibd you talk about, like m&'a at ms is much harder than the rest.
Overall both are tough and require to be intelligent/very hard working, but from a non target you better work somewhere else and go for consulting after a top 10 mba
you can still get in some other consulting firm out of ug but the prestige/salary wont be the same

Do you think one of the big 4 accounting firms would be respectable for consulting? I know theyre not the most prestigious firms to work for, but their consulting practices are growing fast, in some cases much faster than their other areas of business, and with their core accounting services they already have established relationships with major clients, which helps promote their consulting.

The big 4 are transitioning to a model where they stop looking at whether you have a degree now for employment as they consider degrees worthless. In terms of saying whether a candidate is good enough. Cant say I disagree with them tbh.

[Mr. Pecksniff]

Do you think one of the big 4 accounting firms would be respectable for consulting? I know theyre not the most prestigious firms to work for, but their consulting practices are growing fast, in some cases much faster than their other areas of business, and with their core accounting services they already have established relationships with major clients, which helps promote their consulting.

The big 4 are transitioning to a model where they stop looking at whether you have a degree now for employment as they consider degrees worthless. In terms of saying whether a candidate is good enough. Cant say I disagree with them tbh.

Source?

[WickedCossack]

The big 4 are transitioning to a model where they stop looking at whether you have a degree now for employment as they consider degrees worthless. In terms of saying whether a candidate is good enough. Cant say I disagree with them tbh.

Source?

I worked at KPMG in London for the first year after my degree, still got friends there.

[Goodspeed]

X-box is a god to me
A finger on the switch
My mother is a bitch
My father gave up ever trying to talk to me

YES

10/10 One of my favourite albums.

Im finding it hard to hang from a star..

[Metis]

"they consider degrees worthless" -- That all depends on what your degree is in and what the program taught you.

Every job I've had that paid more than minimum wage required some type of degree.

If a manufacturer wants a circuit designer, he's probably not even going to consider someone who merely states that he has an interest in electronics and is willing to learn. However, someone who has a graduate degree in electrical engineering will probably get his resume placed in the interview pile.

Now, if a company just wants a PR gal who is good at schmoozing prospective clients and smoothing ruffled feathers then perhaps a degree isn't all that important.

[Mr. Pecksniff]

Source?

I worked at KPMG in London for the first year after my degree, still got friends there.

Hmm, I cant seem to find anything on google about it, but if you worked for them then Ill take your word for it.

[Mr. Pecksniff]

X-box is a god to me
A finger on the switch
My mother is a bitch
My father gave up ever trying to talk to me

YES

10/10 One of my favourite albums.

Im finding it hard to hang from a star..

Can I be an admin now?

[benj89]

lol it make me think what my previous roommate told me, he works for a top law firm (cravath for those who know), and they apparently like to say they don't like ivy kids etc.. well turns out he's the only non ivy guy he met there (and a master at oxford surely helped).
Anyway abt the consulting thing, we talk abt management/strategy consulting right, because there are tons of sort of consulting which have nothing to do with all that. For strategic, MBB is on another level and not even comparable to what comes after, then deloitte (S&'O)/pwc are very good but big 4 are in general less considered in US than in Europe (quoting sandy kreisberg here). If into consulting coming from non target I think deloitte -->' top 7mba then MBB is makable.
I don't have time to do any research, but I don't see why you wouldn't get a degree. I got 2 insights from big4 accounting, and they only recruit from 5 schools in france according to my bro, it's not even possible to apply and be considered if you don't come from those. The other is a friend who worked at deloitte in the US, and he has degree (with a good gpa)+CPA.
I really don't know much abt accounting, however if I were you I wouldn't consider what wicked said (first of all because I know for a fact that it doesn't apply to france/US, so how come would it apply to uk, what supposed to be the recruiting process in 10 years is pure speculation), second because you should never trust the guy who comes with the non sense thing. If you got some common sense yourself, you should know that this particular guy is most of the time never right :p.
Ofc in the 21st century where having a degree is the first thing which comes in mind to any employer, it makes 0 sense that big 4 consider it worthless, even tho working at a big 4 is nothing crazy. When it's too good to be true, it's not true.
In the end, even if what he says is right, it wouldn't be worth it to save 1 year (I guess you would be some sort of trainee for few years), because you wouldn't be able to reconvert into anything after that, and would have a very hard time to be considered by any grad school with no ug.

[Mr. Pecksniff]

Thanks for all the information. Tbh I'm not interested in accounting, just curious about the big 4 since they're the only management consulting bodies that do spring weeks.

[benj89]

you could get some info asking relevant ppl like sending an email to sa?d business school/LSE/LBS and ask them what they think abt deloitte consult as a pre mba, or ask deloitte via linkedin/website more info abt their job, most of the time ppl take time to respond if you send a polite email

[Metis]

Looking at the first couple of pages of job listings for McKinsey &' Company, I find more than a few that require degrees (they all require experience too)

Solution Analyst -- Masters degree in management + 5 years of experience
Senior Industrial Designer -- Bachelor's degree in Industrial Design + 10-12 years of experience
Mechanical Engineer -- Bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering with minimum 5-8 years of experience
Research Analyst -- Masters or PhD in GIS, Geography, Sociology or Mathematics
One senior Marketing and Sales job doesn't require a degree per se but it does require 12 years of experience.

A degree doesn't guarantee you a job but you are guaranteed to not get certain jobs without one.

[WickedCossack]

lol it make me think what my previous roommate told me, he works for a top law firm (cravath for those who know), and they apparently like to say they don''t like ivy kids etc.. well turns out he''s the only non ivy guy he met there (and a master at oxford surely helped).
Anyway abt the consulting thing, we talk abt management/strategy consulting right, because there are tons of sort of consulting which have nothing to do with all that. For strategic, MBB is on another level and not even comparable to what comes after, then deloitte (S&'O)/pwc are very good but big 4 are in general less considered in US than in Europe (quoting sandy kreisberg here). If into consulting coming from non target I think deloitte -->' top 7mba then MBB is makable.
I don''t have time to do any research, but I don''t see why you wouldn''t get a degree. I got 2 insights from big4 accounting, and they only recruit from 5 schools in france according to my bro, it''s not even possible to apply and be considered if you don''t come from those. The other is a friend who worked at deloitte in the US, and he has degree (with a good gpa)+CPA.
I really don''t know much abt accounting, however if I were you I wouldn''t consider what wicked said (first of all because I know for a fact that it doesn''t apply to france/US, so how come would it apply to uk, what supposed to be the recruiting process in 10 years is pure speculation), second because you should never trust the guy who comes with the non sense thing. If you got some common sense yourself, you should know that this particular guy is most of the time never right :p.
Ofc in the 21st century where having a degree is the first thing which comes in mind to any employer, it makes 0 sense that big 4 consider it worthless, even tho working at a big 4 is nothing crazy. When it''s too good to be true, it''s not true.
In the end, even if what he says is right, it wouldn''t be worth it to save 1 year (I guess you would be some sort of trainee for few years), because you wouldn''t be able to reconvert into anything after that, and would have a very hard time to be considered by any grad school with no ug.

To clarify, my recommendation wasn''t that you shouldn''t get a degree, you made that conclusion yourself. I would fully suggest going to uni (for a whole variety of reasons). My point is that a degree doesn''t mean jack shit these days in terms of what a graduate can do. Degrees are handed out like smarties these days. I also said they were transitioning over to a model where degrees don''t matter in recruitment, they''re not there yet. And that''s only the big 4, not every company in the world.

Don''t know what else you''re referring to when you say I''m almost never right ?

[jsimons1289]

Source?

I worked at KPMG in London for the first year after my degree, still got friends there.

Yeah this is true. The big 4 had a 1st or 2:1 requirement, but have started to drop this off and base it more on values / competencies. Theres also the belief (in the UK) that there are benefits of recruiting pre university.

In terms of consulting, its easier to move around once you have some experience in role. I wouldnt be super picky about singling out one employer or putting all your eggs in one basket.

[Mr. Pecksniff]

you could get some info asking relevant ppl like sending an email to sa?d business school/LSE/LBS and ask them what they think abt deloitte consult as a pre mba, or ask deloitte via linkedin/website more info abt their job, most of the time ppl take time to respond if you send a polite email

Deloitte should be good, my only worry is not being able to secure a place due to competition. The ideal route would be to get a spring week with one of the big 4, and then an internship with McKinsey/Bain/Boston, which could then be converted into a full-time graduate position, followed by an MBA after a few years working in the industry. It should be smooth sailing after that. Everything just rests on my ability to distinguish myself.

[benj89]

[quote source="/post/54536/thread" timestamp="1442610450" author="@wickedcossack"][quote source="/post/54518/thread" timestamp="1442606673" author="@benj89"]lol it make me think what my previous roommate told me, he works for a top law firm (cravath for those who know), and they apparently like to say they don't like ivy kids etc.. well turns out he's the only non ivy guy he met there (and a master at oxford surely helped).
Anyway abt the consulting thing, we talk abt management/strategy consulting right, because there are tons of sort of consulting which have nothing to do with all that. For strategic, MBB is on another level and not even comparable to what comes after, then deloitte (S&'O)/pwc are very good but big 4 are in general less considered in US than in Europe (quoting sandy kreisberg here). If into consulting coming from non target I think deloitte -->' top 7mba then MBB is makable.
I don't have time to do any research, but I don't see why you wouldn't get a degree. I got 2 insights from big4 accounting, and they only recruit from 5 schools in france according to my bro, it's not even possible to apply and be considered if you don't come from those. The other is a friend who worked at deloitte in the US, and he has degree (with a good gpa)+CPA.
I really don't know much abt accounting, however if I were you I wouldn't consider what wicked said (first of all because I know for a fact that it doesn't apply to france/US, so how come would it apply to uk, what supposed to be the recruiting process in 10 years is pure speculation), second because you should never trust the guy who comes with the non sense thing. If you got some common sense yourself, you should know that this particular guy is most of the time never right :p.
Ofc in the 21st century where having a degree is the first thing which comes in mind to any employer, it makes 0 sense that big 4 consider it worthless, even tho working at a big 4 is nothing crazy. When it's too good to be true, it's not true.
In the end, even if what he says is right, it wouldn't be worth it to save 1 year (I guess you would be some sort of trainee for few years), because you wouldn't be able to reconvert into anything after that, and would have a very hard time to be considered by any grad school with no ug.


[/quote]To clarify, my recommendation wasn't that you shouldn't get a degree, you made that conclusion yourself. I would fully suggest going to uni (for a whole variety of reasons). My point is that a degree doesn't mean jack shit these days in terms of what a graduate can do. Degrees are handed out like smarties these days. I also said they were transitioning over to a model where degrees don't matter in recruitment, they're not there yet. And that's only the big 4, not every company in the world.

Don't know what else you're referring to when you say I'm almost never right ?
[/quote]I hate misinformation so I was a bit rude here.
Your point was that degree aren't worth much nowadays and will be less and less recognized, especially by the big4. Since you aren't the first one to say that on the forum, I point out the fact that a "degree" in itself doesn't mean much, since there are bad and good universities first, and then you got grades. So if your point is that a degree from a bad university with bad grades is worthless, your right but I consider it irrelevant to the discussion.
If your point is that the big 4 are transitioning over a new model where degree won't matter, I consider it as misinformation* (ie: it's a tendency in many companies which shouldn't exist more than hipsters, to say they don't like to recruit top student and everything)
Wasn't referring to you in particular, it's just a human propensity to speculate on reforms that seems great. Degree not needed = awesome it implies I can work at deloitte consult without studying for 3-4years and getting in debt, well if that's a case I'm very curious to see the resume of those guys and see what they did, cuz the competition would probably be much harder. I guess we could talk abt it in 10 years and see who was right

*unless UK is very different than france/usa, but I doubt it.

Metis most the time when the degree requirement is non indicated in those companies it's because they expect some Tony Hsieh type of guy to be considered.

Paranoid: sounds like a great plan good luck with that then ')

[samtheham]

Looking at the first couple of pages of job listings for McKinsey &' Company, I find more than a few that require degrees (they all require experience too)

Solution Analyst -- Masters degree in management + 5 years of experience
Senior Industrial Designer -- Bachelor''s degree in Industrial Design + 10-12 years of experience
Mechanical Engineer -- Bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering with minimum 5-8 years of experience
Research Analyst -- Masters or PhD in GIS, Geography, Sociology or Mathematics
One senior Marketing and Sales job doesn''t require a degree per se but it does require 12 years of experience.

A degree doesn''t guarantee you a job but you are guaranteed to not get certain jobs without one.

Metis there are positions that require only a degree and no experience (i.e. jobs for fresh grads). They just aren''t on the site because they don''t want every joe shmo as a mediocre state university applying online and overloading their servers. This hearkens back to what I was saying earlier that places like McKinsey really only recruit at top schools, or what people in the industry call "targets" -- think Ivies, MIT, Stanford.

[momuuu]

I think, in the end, you will be able to get a good salary if you are good at something. Getting a degree not only makes that proces easier, but often makes you become good at something.

[Mr. Pecksniff]

I'm good at sleeping in and missing deadlines. Where's my salary?

[Jam]

I''m good at sleeping in and missing deadlines. Where''s my salary?

It''s right next to your bed, but just out of reach. I''m afraid that you may have to get up.

[n0el]

Yeah but you''re in Michigan and your friends are at NYC haha

That''s my point. Saying I make 100k is meaningless because if I make 80k and cost of living is less I bank more in the long term. Its no different in Chicago or San Fransisco, I just happen to have a few friends in NYC.

[Mr. Pecksniff]

Im good at sleeping in and missing deadlines. Wheres my salary?

Its right next to your bed, but just out of reach.? Im afraid that you may have to get up.

Couldnt you just hand it over to me?

[samtheham]

Yeah but youre in Michigan and your friends are at NYC haha

Thats my point. Saying I make 100k is meaningless because if I make 80k and cost of living is less I bank more in the long term. Its no different in Chicago or San Fransisco, I just happen to have a few friends in NYC.

I was just poking fun that theyre living in freaking NYC (which I admit, isnt for everyone), while youre stuck in the frozen tundra that I assume Michigan is. I moved to the Northeast from the South for college and hate every minute of winter.

[n0el]

I'd rather have a couple months with snow than a summer of unbearable heat and humidity. You can also go skiing here or ice fishing or something. Not sure what to do when it is so hot outside.

[Metis]

My suggestion to those just starting college is to work as hard as you can to avoid taking out loans. Unless you are a citizen of one of those nice small European countries (here in the US, we'd call them states) that pay for your education, you can easily rack up $50k to $100k or more in student loans. Add that loan repayment to your rent, food, car payments, insurance etc. and you are trapped right out of college into having to get a job. The less you owe, the more freedom you will have.

Don't scoff at those "minor" degrees. Now, an AA in art might not get you anywhere but an AAS in a technical field darn sure will. Not only will an AAS include two years worth of gen-ed courses that you will eventually have to take anyway to get a Bachelors, it will put some certification letters behind your name and let you get your foot in the door to get that much needed experience. The better AAS programs have paid internships built into them too. These are usually minimum-wage positions but hands-on experience in the field beats flipping burgers. You can get half your four-year degree's general education credits at most community colleges for a quarter of the cost of attending a four-year college directly. Just make sure that the hours will transfer by attending colleges that have a transfer agreement with a university. I have a few of these Associate-level degrees, they all were fun and all paid for themselves eventually.

Learn the system. In the US, student loans are far too easy to come by. Banks and Universities love student loans but I think it does students a disservice to become saddled with debt at a young age. However there are other ways of getting money for college. The military has educational benefits. There are state, federal and local grants and scholarships too. One good way of paying for your education if you already have your foot in the door is to have your company send you to school in exchange for a contract. If you have lost your job recently there are federal retraining programs that can be used to get a degree in another field.


You don't have to get a Bachelors in four years either. If you have to go to school half time and work half time to make ends meet, it's OK. In fact, there are many instances where you may actually land a job more easily doing this than by going to school full time on student loans. Why? Because if you are discerning, that part-time job you have will be giving you the experience that other college students don't have. It took me ten years from graduating high school to getting a bachelors but the experience I gained in the Army and in EMS was well worth it.

By a combination of hard work at selective jobs, knowledge of grants and scholarships, GI benefits, assistantships and teaching, I obtained all of my formal education (about 400 credits at last count) without taking out a single loan or owing a penny to anyone.

[drac3130]

I''d rather have a couple months with snow than a summer of unbearable heat and humidity. You can also go skiing here or ice fishing or something. Not sure what to do when it is so hot outside.

NYC summers are the definition of brutal. There is nothing like being in a city in which the mode of transport is walking...but walking 10 feet will get your drenched in sweat. Heck, turning off your A/C for more than an hour will give you a heat stroke in July.

It is, indeed, a concrete jungle with massive vehicle congestion plus a huge subway system constantly venting heat onto major, crowded streets. I can''t wait for fall and winter to roll around.