So, what are your thoughts on abortion?

[benj89]

Abortion gives too much power to women, hence it should be banned.

real talk

[Mimsy for President]

but it regulates world population !

[Mr_Bramboy]

Abortion is fine and anyone who thinks otherwise is either a Muslim or an American.

:clint:

[jacksonpollock]

Abortion gives too much power to women, hence it should be banned.

Giving women power is my favorite part of abortion

[jacksonpollock]

Abortion is fine and anyone who thinks otherwise is either a Muslim or an American.

:clint:

Or a Muslim-american, the worst kind of person of all

[benj89]

but it regulates world population !

but we have the gay community for this purpose!

[Mimsy for President]

true that.

[jacksonpollock]

but it regulates world population !

but we have the gay community for this purpose!

You know a lot about the gay community dont you?

[gibson]

Abortion is fine and anyone who thinks otherwise is either a Muslim or an American.

:clint:

So would you say that aborting a baby in the 31st week when it could easily survive outside the mother and has basically full formed limbs is ok?

[momuuu]

I think youd have to wonder why murder is bad in the first place. Its pretty hard to make a good case that killing your child before it has developed consciousness is wrong you know. Its pretty fucking hard to defend that statement with logic. It feels like its terrible to do such a thing, but you can push it and say thats okay.

How do you determine when someone develops a consciousness and why is okay to murder someone without a consciousness vs someone who has one? And more importantly, what is a consciousness?

What I am trying to say is that it is hard to argue that killing someone who is unaware of life is bad. It takes a while before a kid can even be sad about dieing. If the parents dont want to kid, and the kid cant be sad about dieing yet, then why would it be wrong?

Its not like I think we should go kill kids, but its extremely hard to argue that this murder thing actually is wrong. You can just say blabla its murder but thats not enough for me. Why is murder even bad?

[jacksonpollock]

Abortion is fine and anyone who thinks otherwise is either a Muslim or an American.

:clint:

So would you say that aborting a baby in the 31st week when it could easily survive outside the mother and has basically full formed limbs is ok?

Yes

[benj89]

but we have the gay community for this purpose!

You know a lot about the gay community dont you?

I enjoy anal sex but thats about it to be honest. Might be due to a visceral need to dominate women, or the fact that its tighter, or more intense, or that its like doing the misstep of Adam and Eve all over again, not so sure, but I could investigate later if you want. Recently, friend in med school told me about his gf giving him prostatic massage, but I guess Im not ready for that yet. Any more question?
also, I have gay friends, so Im not homophobic :clint:

[evilcheadar]

How do you determine when someone develops a consciousness and why is okay to murder someone without a consciousness vs someone who has one? And more importantly, what is a consciousness?

What I am trying to say is that it is hard to argue that killing someone who is unaware of life is bad. It takes a while before a kid can even be sad about dieing. If the parents dont want to kid, and the kid cant be sad about dieing yet, then why would it be wrong??

Its not like I think we should go kill kids, but its extremely hard to argue that this murder thing actually is wrong. You can just say blabla its murder but thats not enough for me. Why is murder even bad?

Unfortunately for you ethics isnt based on if people and things capable of rational agency should be stopped from being "sad".

[benj89]

How do you determine when someone develops a consciousness and why is okay to murder someone without a consciousness vs someone who has one? And more importantly, what is a consciousness?

What I am trying to say is that it is hard to argue that killing someone who is unaware of life is bad. It takes a while before a kid can even be sad about dieing. If the parents dont want to kid, and the kid cant be sad about dieing yet, then why would it be wrong?

Its not like I think we should go kill kids, but its extremely hard to argue that this murder thing actually is wrong. You can just say blabla its murder but thats not enough for me. Why is murder even bad?

I got your back!
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+is+murder+bad+

[jacksonpollock]

What I am trying to say is that it is hard to argue that killing someone who is unaware of life is bad. It takes a while before a kid can even be sad about dieing. If the parents dont want to kid, and the kid cant be sad about dieing yet, then why would it be wrong??

Its not like I think we should go kill kids, but its extremely hard to argue that this murder thing actually is wrong. You can just say blabla its murder but thats not enough for me. Why is murder even bad?

Unfortunately for you ethics isnt based on if people and things capable of rational agency should be stopped from being "sad".

You really think an unborn baby is capable of making decisions?

[evilcheadar]

Unfortunately for you ethics isnt based on if people and things capable of rational agency should be stopped from being "sad".

You really think an unborn baby is capable of making decisions?

No

[gibson]

How do you determine when someone develops a consciousness and why is okay to murder someone without a consciousness vs someone who has one? And more importantly, what is a consciousness?

What I am trying to say is that it is hard to argue that killing someone who is unaware of life is bad. It takes a while before a kid can even be sad about dieing. If the parents dont want to kid, and the kid cant be sad about dieing yet, then why would it be wrong?

Its not like I think we should go kill kids, but its extremely hard to argue that this murder thing actually is wrong. You can just say blabla its murder but thats not enough for me. Why is murder even bad?

Well from my perspective if someone does not contribute to society or is a drain on society murdering them would not be a bad thing. Obviously though this is all hypothetical because I would not actually be for killing everyone who does not contribute to society, but logically I dont think you can argue against it. However, we dont know how said child will contribute to society in the future so is it right to kill someone who could be the one to find the cure for cancer? On the other hand though, you could use that argument for why all parents should have as many kids as possible and you could then say that parents who don't have kids might be depriving the world of the same thing, we just dont know. Its all very messy and complicated. What your moral compass tells you is wrong isnt always what seems to be logically wrong and vice versa. Then you get into things like was it okay for Hitler to kill 6 million Jews? Morally, we would say or course not. But if he viewed them as a drain on society and as an evolutionary back step from the Arians than why not?

[gibson]

Unfortunately for you ethics isnt based on if people and things capable of rational agency should be stopped from being "sad".

You really think an unborn baby is capable of making decisions?

An unborn baby is just as able to make decisions as a born baby. A 1 week old fetus, however, is not

[howlingwolfpaw]

metis vegans causing more deaths by not eating meat? haha no..... do you know how much resources it takes to produce a pound of meat? thousands of gallons of water and many crops. It is the most inefficient form of energy production and digestion. Fruits and many seeds have evolved to be eaten, and processed out to grow. they are a gift from the plants, as a trait for survival as people will want to plant and take care of a water melon patch and not let it get consumed by weeds. Going vegan is one of the best things someone can do to be earth friendly and health conscious.

[momuuu]

What I am trying to say is that it is hard to argue that killing someone who is unaware of life is bad. It takes a while before a kid can even be sad about dieing. If the parents dont want to kid, and the kid cant be sad about dieing yet, then why would it be wrong?

Its not like I think we should go kill kids, but its extremely hard to argue that this murder thing actually is wrong. You can just say blabla its murder but thats not enough for me. Why is murder even bad?

I got your back!
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+is+murder+bad+

Wow, what a dick post. You know this is a forum which is for discussion? I wanted to raise the point that its pretty hard to define any killing of any human being as bad and argue about it. If you dont understand that its a legitemate question, then you should try to understand someones post before ridiculing it.

What I am trying to say is that it is hard to argue that killing someone who is unaware of life is bad. It takes a while before a kid can even be sad about dieing. If the parents dont want to kid, and the kid cant be sad about dieing yet, then why would it be wrong?

Its not like I think we should go kill kids, but its extremely hard to argue that this murder thing actually is wrong. You can just say blabla its murder but thats not enough for me. Why is murder even bad?

Well from my perspective if someone does not contribute to society or is a drain on society murdering them would not be a bad thing. Obviously though this is all hypothetical because I would not actually be for killing everyone who does not contribute to society, but logically I dont think you can argue against it. However, we dont know how said child will contribute to society in the future so is it right to kill someone who could be the one to find the cure for cancer? On the other hand though, you could use that argument for why all parents should have as many kids as possible and you could then say that parents who don't have kids might be depriving the world of the same thing, we just dont know. Its all very messy and complicated. What your moral compass tells you is wrong isnt always what seems to be logically wrong and vice versa. Then you get into things like was it okay for Hitler to kill 6 million Jews? Morally, we would say or course not. But if he viewed them as a drain on society and as an evolutionary back step from the Arians than why not?

I like to go by the fact that the murder of someone makes other people sad, or might make the person himself sad. In that case, abortian is perfectly okay. Problem is that murdering 1 years old would become okay aswell then in specific scenarios. That doesnt seem quite right, but from a logic point of view it does seem to make sense. At least by that logic I think abortion until a specific age is okay, and I think the current line is pretty conservative I guess.

[evilcheadar]

metis vegans causing more deaths by not eating meat? haha no..... do you know how much resources it takes to produce a pound of meat? thousands of gallons of water and many crops. It is the most inefficient form of energy production and digestion. Fruits and many seeds have evolved to be eaten, and processed out to grow. they are a gift from the plants, as a trait for survival as people will want to plant and take care of a water melon patch and not let it get consumed by weeds. Going vegan is one of the best things someone can do to be earth friendly and health conscious.

Meats are far more tasty than plants,

[Durokan]

metis vegans causing more deaths by not eating meat? haha no..... do you know how much resources it takes to produce a pound of meat? thousands of gallons of water and many crops. It is the most inefficient form of energy production and digestion. Fruits and many seeds have evolved to be eaten, and processed out to grow. they are a gift from the plants, as a trait for survival as people will want to plant and take care of a water melon patch and not let it get consumed by weeds. Going vegan is one of the best things someone can do to be earth friendly and health conscious.

Yes, plants are more energy efficient than meat' however, in order to be healthy a person needs b12, d3, dha, carnosine, and creatine. All of these things are found nowhere but in meat or meat products. Going fully vegan is a terrible idea for the sake of personal safety and development. If a person wants to be a vegan out of principle, it makes sense to cut out as much meat as possible from the diet while still consuming the necessary parts of meat. This is why some people consume a minimal amount of [free range and organic] chicken while trying to maintain a veganlike diet.

In addition, have you ever tried eating 2000 calories worth of celery?

[jacksonpollock]

metis vegans causing more deaths by not eating meat? haha no..... do you know how much resources it takes to produce a pound of meat? thousands of gallons of water and many crops. It is the most inefficient form of energy production and digestion. Fruits and many seeds have evolved to be eaten, and processed out to grow. they are a gift from the plants, as a trait for survival as people will want to plant and take care of a water melon patch and not let it get consumed by weeds. Going vegan is one of the best things someone can do to be earth friendly and health conscious.

Meats are far more tasty than plants,

So? You care more about how something tastes than the environment?

[Durokan]

Meats are far more tasty than plants,

So? You care more about how something tastes than the environment?

Meat isnt any more dangerous to the environment than plants. Both can have a major impact on the environment when unregulated and uncontrolled.

[Metis]

If a woman doesn't consent to sex, we call this rape and prosecute the perpetrator accordingly. If the woman, cannot consent to sex, either because she is mentally or physically impaired then this too is considered rape. It's even considered rape when a sexually mature female desires and initiates sexual intercourse but is too young according to the laws of society. In this instance the law is pretty clear that we must act in the best interests of those who cannot consent for themselves. Very few normal people would consent to being scraped to death, poisoned or having a metal clamp placed around their necks and their brains crushed. Thus we should presume that a fetus probably would rather not be aborted were it capable of making an informed choice.