What if the central powers won WW1

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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by Papist »

I actually don't think that it would have made much difference at all. Germany did not have the military capacity to conquer France and Britian, which means that a victory for the Central Powers would have most likely resulted in more if the status quo. WW2 would not have been driven by the Nazi movement, but it would still have happened.
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by fightinfrenchman »

frycookofdoom wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:The only way we could have prevented the greater war was to come up with a cure for IBs (irritable bowrl syndrome) . it would have calmed Adolph down and he wouldnt be so aggressive/irritable
Agreed, Id say IBS was one of the prime factors behind millions of deaths that occurred in the past century.



Millions? Easily a trillion people have died of this in the last year a lone . the silent killer
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by momuuu »

I'm not really a historian or know much about history, but I was thought in high school that it was hard to actually find the country that caused WW1. I feel like the treaty of Versaille kinda acts as if it was all germany's fault though, while that seems a little bit short sighted right? So then why did they deserve punishment?
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by Good ol Ivan »

jerom wrote:I''m not really a historian or know much about history, but I was thought in high school that it was hard to actually find the country that caused WW1.
It''s all about understanding the process.

Some Serbian dude killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary.
So Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia.
Serbia was allied to Russia, and Russia joins the war.
Austria-Hungary can''t win the war alone against Russia, so it calls its allies, Germany and Italy to the war.
Then Russia does the same thing and calls the French and the British.
Also after some time Italy leaves the central powers, but the Ottoman empire joins them.

It''s not about finding who is guilty, it''s about understanding the process. It''s up to you to decide whether a nation/government did the wrong thing or not. But it''s not as easy as good guys vs bad guys.


I feel like the treaty of Versaille kinda acts as if it was all germany''s fault though, while that seems a little bit short sighted right? So then why did they deserve punishment?
Germany was the core of the central powers and which put the most effort to the war.
Regardless all sides which lost the war were "punished".
Austria Hungary lost Czechoslovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Romania, Northern Serbia, Bosnia, and eastern Ukraine.
The Ottoman empire lost syria, iraq, and other lands inhabited by arabs.
Germany lost Poland and its colonies in Africa.
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by sunimirio »

ivan wrote:
jerom wrote:Im not really a historian or know much about history, but I was thought in high school that it was hard to actually find the country that caused WW1.
Its all about understanding the process.

Some Serbian dude killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary.
So Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia.
Serbia was allied to Russia, and Russia joins the war.
Austria-Hungary cant win the war alone against Russia, so it calls its allies, Germany and Italy to the war.
Then Russia does the same thing and calls the French and the British.
Also after some time Italy leaves the central powers, but the Ottoman empire joins them.

Its not about finding who is guilty, its about understanding the process. Its up to you to decide whether a nation/government did the wrong thing or not. But its not as easy as good guys vs bad guys.
Well, i agree with your "understanding process" but it is partially correct: [ul type="disc"][li]"Some Serbian dude killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary." That dude was Bosnian Serb Gavrilo Princip and he was part of "Young Bosnia" organization that was basiclly part of "Black Hand" nationalist crime Serbian organization, they wanted all south Slavs to be in their control called "Great Serbia" and with that we can easly conclude
why Gavrilo killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria.[/li][/ul][div]
[/div][ul type="disc"][li]"So Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia." Austria-Hungary gave a "July ultimatum" to Serbia, let us do the investigation of assassination in your country or we declar war. Franz Joseph I. was totally against war and he refused to sign a declaration of war but he signed a mobilization (with this words: "Im all done the best I could, but now its all over") under pressure of Germany and his generals that wanted a war to start in 1913.
[/li][/ul][div]
[/div][ul type="disc"][li]"Serbia was allied to Russia, and Russia joins the war." Serbia wanted to comply with "July ultimatum" but Russian message was clear "war"![/li][/ul][div]
[/div][ul type="disc"][li]"Also after some time Italy leaves the central powers, but the Ottoman empire joins them." Great Britain promised that Italy will have Croatian coast and islands after the war if they join the Triple Entente. That agreement was signed without public knowledge only British and Italians know it in London 1915. and it is called Treaty of London. Same thing for Ottomans but they would again get Balkans that they lose from (1699.
-1914.) Treaty of Karlowitz.[/li][/ul]
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by Good ol Ivan »

sunimirio wrote:Well, i agree with your "understanding process" but it is partially correct: [ul type="disc"][li]"Some Serbian dude killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary." That dude was Bosnian Serb Gavrilo Princip and he was part of "Young Bosnia" organization that was basiclly part of "Black Hand" nationalist crime Serbian organization, they wanted all south Slavs to be in their control called "Great Serbia" and with that we can easly conclude
why Gavrilo killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria.[/li][/ul]
lol are you also Croatian or something?
Bosnians, Serbs and Croats are the same people. Bosnians are just Serbs who converted to Islam.



sunimirio wrote:"So Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia." Austria-Hungary gave a "July ultimatum" to Serbia, let us do the investigation of assassination in your country or we declar war. Franz Joseph I. was totally against war and he refused to sign a declaration of war but he signed a mobilization (with this words: "Im all done the best I could, but now its all over") under pressure of Germany and his generals that wanted a war to start in 1913.
"Serbia was allied to Russia, and Russia joins the war." Serbia wanted to comply with "July ultimatum" but Russian message was clear "war"!

Okay I didnt know that and thats pretty cool. It doesnt contradict my point tho.


sunimirio wrote:"Also after some time Italy leaves the central powers, but the Ottoman empire joins them." Great Britain promised that Italy will have Croatian coast and islands after the war if they join the Triple Entente. That agreement was signed without public knowledge only British and Italians know it in London 1915. and it is called Treaty of London. Same thing for Ottomans but they would again get Balkans that they lose from (1699.
-1914.) Treaty of Karlowitz.

Yep. Italy had nothing to gain had it stayed in the central powers.
Theres no need to be so specific though (I believe explaining treaties bores the shit out of most people), I was just trying to explain the basics.
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by sunimirio »

[quote timestamp="1446779294" author="@ivan" source="/post/76389/thread"][quote author="@sunimirio" timestamp="1446715405" source="/post/76039/thread"]Well, i agree with your "understanding process" but it is partially correct: [ul type="disc"][li]"Some Serbian dude killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary." That dude was Bosnian Serb Gavrilo Princip and he was part of "Young Bosnia" organization that was basiclly part of "Black Hand" nationalist crime Serbian organization, they wanted all south Slavs to be in their control called "Great Serbia" and with that we can easly conclude
why Gavrilo killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria.[/li][/ul][/quote]lol are you also Croatian or something?
Bosnians, Serbs and Croats are the same people. Bosnians are just Serbs who converted to Islam.



[quote source="/post/76039/thread" author="@sunimirio" timestamp="1446715405"]"So Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia." Austria-Hungary gave a "July ultimatum" to Serbia, let us do the investigation of assassination in your country or we declar war. Franz Joseph I. was totally against war and he refused to sign a declaration of war but he signed a mobilization (with this words: "I'm all done the best I could, but now it's all over") under pressure of Germany and his generals that wanted a war to start in 1913.
"Serbia was allied to Russia, and Russia joins the war." Serbia wanted to comply with "July ultimatum" but Russian message was clear "war"![/quote]Okay I didn't know that and that's pretty cool. It doesn't contradict my point tho.


[quote source="/post/76039/thread" author="@sunimirio" timestamp="1446715405"]"Also after some time Italy leaves the central powers, but the Ottoman empire joins them." Great Britain promised that Italy will have Croatian coast and islands after the war if they join the Triple Entente. That agreement was signed without public knowledge only British and Italians know it in London 1915. and it is called Treaty of London. Same thing for Ottomans but they would again get Balkans that they lose from (1699.
-1914.) Treaty of Karlowitz.[/quote]Yep. Italy had nothing to gain had it stayed in the central powers.
There's no need to be so specific though (I believe explaining treaties bores the shit out of most people), I was just trying to explain the basics.
[/quote][ul type="disc"][li]"lol are you also Croatian or something?

Bosnians, Serbs and Croats are the same people. Bosnians are just Serbs who converted to Islam." Yes i am Croatian is there somehing you have problem or you fell wrong about it? Anyway it is important to "undrestand procces",well if you continue to generalize things (especially people:"Bosnians, Serbs and Croats are the same people") you will never understand procces... for example if i say Ukrainians, Tartars and Russians are all same people, well if i was Ukrainian i would be offended especially when you are in that kind of relationship (i think we all know what kind of relationship) with Russians."Bosnians are just Serbs who converted to Islam".I don't know if you are trying to needle me or what but that statement is incorrect, you see that throughout history Bosnians were autonomous people, they had own principality just like Serbs and Croats but Tomislav of Croatia (who saved Serbian prince from Bulgarians) spread his power through Balkans with support for Pope and then after him and others rulers came Demetrius Zvonimir of Croatia and after him Croatia with all others conquered areas (Bosnia,Zahumlje,Travunja,Duklja,Pannonian Croatia and Dalmatia) go into personal union with Hungary (1102.-1918.).With the Habsburgs and Ottomans arrived in the Balkans and they occupied most of the Balkans,so Croat and Bosnian people on area of today Bosnia and Herzegovina were extremely exposed to Islamize from Ottoman side.After Nikola ?ubi??-"Zr?nyi Mikl?s"(Croatian and Hungarian national hero) stopped Ottomans and they were rapidly retreating,they left behind Islamized people who were very connected to Instabul.[/li][/ul][div]
[/div][ul type="disc"][li]"Okay I didn't know that and that's pretty cool. It doesn't contradict my point tho." I didn't want to contradict your points i just wanted to expand and clarify them, i am sorry if i left that impression :D[/li][/ul][div]
[/div][ul type="disc"][li][span style="background-color:transparent'"]"Yep. Italy had nothing to gain had it stayed in the central powers. [/span]
[/li]There's no need to be so specific though (I believe explaining treaties bores the shit out of most people), I was just trying to explain the basics."For me it is not boring :D but i am strongly oppose you in that regards, to understand anything in histroy and learn from it you must be patient,fundamental
and strong-minded to investigate
all sides not just losers not just winners,every little thing'statement,signature... can lead you to conclusion that things from school books,web-sites, especially people that can see their internal benefits are not necessarily accurate. :D I know you were just trying to explain the basics but generalizing things can be pretty inaccurate.
[/ul][div]


[/div][div]

[/div]
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by Good ol Ivan »

sunimirio wrote:Yes i am Croatian is there somehing you have problem or you fell wrong about it?
Nah not at all. Its just that I have gotten into arguing with Croatians far too many times on this forum (most of whom were kinda dumb and sympathized a lot with the far right and ww2 germany...), and they are the only ones who care and insist to believe Croats are completely different from Serbs. Whenever I see someone argue Croats, Serbs, and Bosnians are different nations I laugh as I know Im (most likely) arguing with another Croat ^^


sunimirio wrote: Anyway it is important to "undrestand procces",well if you continue to generalize things (especially people:"Bosnians, Serbs and Croats are the same people") you will never understand procces... for example if i say Ukrainians, Tartars and Russians are all same people, well if i was Ukrainian i would be offended especially when you are in that kind of relationship (i think we all know what kind of relationship) with Russians.
They are the same people tho. Ukrainians and Russians are also the same people, yes. Same can be said about Catalans and Castillians. Bavarians and Germans, Dutchies and Flemish, etc...
Its all petty petty regionalism, but theres no real/significant difference to consider them as separate nations.

Btw Tartars are a turkic/mongol people, nothing to do with Ukrainians or Russians. A Serb has more in common with a Russian than a Tatar imho.


sunimirio wrote:"Bosnians are just Serbs who converted to Islam".I dont know if you are trying to needle me or what but that statement is incorrect, you see that throughout history Bosnians were autonomous people, they had own principality just like Serbs and Croats
I said that because basically thats the only way you can tell Serbs from Bosnians apart.
Bosnians had their own principality once, but so did Cornwall, Novgorod, Hannover...
It doesnt change the fact that Bosnians and Serbs (also Croats and Montenegrins) are the same nation... Theres no way to tell apart Croats, Serbs, or Bosnians - except for that each might practice a different religion.
I know you will disagree, so please do tell me: whats the difference between a Bosnian and a Serb?
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by sunimirio »

[quote author="@ivan" source="/post/76679/thread" timestamp="1446827884"][quote timestamp="1446807761" source="/post/76517/thread" author="@sunimirio"]Yes i am Croatian is there somehing you have problem or you fell wrong about it?
[/quote]Nah not at all. It's just that I have gotten into arguing with Croatians far too many times on this forum (most of whom were kinda dumb and sympathized a lot with the far right and ww2 germany...), and they are the only ones who care and insist to believe Croats are completely different from Serbs. Whenever I see someone argue Croats, Serbs, and Bosnians are different nations I laugh as I know I'm (most likely) arguing with another Croat ^^


[quote author="@sunimirio" source="/post/76517/thread" timestamp="1446807761"] Anyway it is important to "undrestand procces",well if you continue to generalize things (especially people:"Bosnians, Serbs and Croats are the same people") you will never understand procces... for example if i say Ukrainians, Tartars and Russians are all same people, well if i was Ukrainian i would be offended especially when you are in that kind of relationship (i think we all know what kind of relationship) with Russians.[/quote]They are the same people tho. Ukrainians and Russians are also the same people, yes. Same can be said about Catalans and Castillians. Bavarians and Germans, Dutchies and Flemish, etc...
It's all petty petty regionalism, but there's no real/significant difference to consider them as separate nations.

Btw Tartars are a turkic/mongol people, nothing to do with Ukrainians or Russians. A Serb has more in common with a Russian than a Tatar imho.


[quote source="/post/76517/thread" author="@sunimirio" timestamp="1446807761"]"Bosnians are just Serbs who converted to Islam".I don't know if you are trying to needle me or what but that statement is incorrect, you see that throughout history Bosnians were autonomous people, they had own principality just like Serbs and Croats [/quote]I said that because basically that's the only way you can tell Serbs from Bosnians apart.
Bosnians had their own principality once, but so did Cornwall, Novgorod, Hannover...
It doesn't change the fact that Bosnians and Serbs (also Croats and Montenegrins) are the same nation... There's no way to tell apart Croats, Serbs, or Bosnians - except for that each might practice a different religion.
I know you will disagree, so please do tell me: what's the difference between a Bosnian and a Serb?[/quote][ul type="disc"][li]"Nah not at all. It's just that I have gotten into arguing with Croatians far too many times on this forum (most of whom were kinda dumb and sympathized a lot with the far right and ww2 germany...), and they are the only ones who care and insist to believe Croats are completely different from Serbs. Whenever I see someone argue Croats, Serbs, and Bosnians are different nations I laugh as I know I'm (most likely) arguing with another Croat ^^"First of all i really don't care about who you meet and i will be thankful if you don't compare me with someone i don't know ( i hope that you don't get same impression for me because that would be very childish from you)."Do not shove all in the same basket".[/li][/ul][div]
[/div][ul type="disc"][li]"They are the same people tho. Ukrainians and Russians are also the same people, yes. Same can be said about Catalans and Castillians. Bavarians and Germans, Dutchies and Flemish, etc...

It's all petty petty regionalism, but there's no real/significant difference to consider them as separate nations.

Btw Tartars are a turkic/mongol people, nothing to do with Ukrainians or Russians. A Serb has more in common with a Russian than a Tatar imho.
"
Well, you see as much as it seemed that we are all same in fact we are very different (south Slavs), today only thing we have common is languange(not exactly the same). Culture,mores,writing and people are different and many try to connect us but it did not work just because of that but don't get me wrong that don't mean that i will hate any Serbian,Bosnian,Slovenian (or any other south Slav...) dude,nay i like to hang out and meet new people.I know who Tartars are and i added them just to emphasize my statement from last post.[/li][/ul][div]
[/div][ul type="disc"][li]"I said that because basically that's the only way you can tell Serbs from Bosnians apart.

Bosnians had their own principality once, but so did Cornwall, Novgorod, Hannover...

It doesn't change the fact that Bosnians and Serbs (also Croats and Montenegrins) are the same nation... There's no way to tell apart Croats, Serbs, or Bosnians - except for that each might practice a different religion.

I know you will disagree, so please do tell me: what's the difference between a Bosnian and a Serb?"
For this :"There's no way to tell apart Croats, Serbs, or Bosnians - except for that each might practice a different religion.". I explain it all in second part of post.Well basically it's very simple Bosnians and Serbs are two different people that have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to South Slavs subgroup of Slavic peoples,just like Dutch and German not same but have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to Germanic group or French and Italians[/li][/ul][div] not same but have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to Italic group. I hope you understand that now :D
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by Good ol Ivan »

sunimirio wrote:First of all i really dont care about who you meet and i will be thankful if you dont compare me with someone i dont know ( i hope that you dont get same impression for me because that would be very childish from you)."Do not shove all in the same basket"
Alright, excuse me if I was rude - but really, I still judge you and everybody else on an individual level - when I see coincidences I mostly just take them with humor.
...even though coincidences do help us to form an idea of a larger picture :whistling:

sunimirio wrote:Well basically its very simple Bosnians and Serbs are two different people that have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to South Slavs subgroup of Slavic peoples,just like Dutch and German not same but have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to Germanic group or French and Italians not same but have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to Italic group. I hope you understand that now :D
Differences between Serbian and Croatian are on a dialect level - a Dutch however will struggle to understand a German, just like a French person will struggle to understand an Italian. Thats not the case for Bosnians, Croats and Serbs - which are the same nation (south slavs). Serbs and croats are more analogous to Sardinians and Sicilians (both Italians), than to Italians and French.
I hope you understand that you are just pushing propaganda which was used to legitimize the dissolution of Yugoslavia.
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by Papist »

One problem with your analysis Ivan - Austria demanded far more than an investigation. After Franz Ferdinand was killed. They also demanded that Serbia suppress all anti-Austrian movements. As these demands were made, Austria was mobilizing and their foreign minister was leaving Serbia, anticipating a refusal.

Internal documents from. The time show that the Austrians wanted Serbia to refuse so they could defeat them militarily and end their ambitions in Bosnia.
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What if the central powers won WW1

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ivan wrote:
sunimirio wrote:First of all i really dont care about who you meet and i will be thankful if you dont compare me with someone i dont know ( i hope that you dont get same impression for me because that would be very childish from you)."Do not shove all in the same basket"
Alright, excuse me if I was rude - but really, I still judge you and everybody else on an individual level - when I see coincidences I mostly just take them with humor.
...even though coincidences do help us to form an idea of a larger picture :whistling:

sunimirio wrote:Well basically its very simple Bosnians and Serbs are two different people that have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to South Slavs subgroup of Slavic peoples,just like Dutch and German not same but have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to Germanic group or French and Italians not same but have same languange (not exactly the same) and belong to Italic group. I hope you understand that now :D
Differences between Serbian and Croatian are on a dialect level - a Dutch however will struggle to understand a German, just like a French person will struggle to understand an Italian. Thats not the case for Bosnians, Croats and Serbs - which are the same nation (south slavs). Serbs and croats are more analogous to Sardinians and Sicilians (both Italians), than to Italians and French.
I hope you understand that you are just pushing propaganda which was used to legitimize the dissolution of Yugoslavia.
Absolutely wrong:[i style="font-weight:bold'"]"Serbs and croats are more analogous to Sardinians and Sicilians (both Italians), than to Italians and French."[/i]|Frist of all Serbian and Croatian are not dialects they are languanges.As i said in last post South Slavs doesnt exists as nation,they are group of people,subgroup of Slavic people,that speak South Slavic languanges. For example Germans and Austrians speak very similar languange but if you call some Austrian guy a German he will be very mad on you. Croatians wanted united Yugoslavia (after Great War,because of knowing that alone they cant make through in that time). Kingdom of Yugoslavia was formed and not for long Petar I. and his assistants saw Kingdom of Yugoslavia chance to make "Greater Serbia" plan (Ilija Gra?anin 1844.).After that in communists Yugoslavia, after Josip Broz Tito death(1980.), Serbians wanted again to spread influence in state, of course Croatians,Bosnians,Macedonians,Slovenian people didnt like that and they wanted to peacefully leave (Berlin Wall) but Serbia used "YPA" ("Yugoslav Peoples Army") force to stop that and only propaganda that was there spread was Serbian with highlight on "rescue endangered Serbs" wich was clearly not the case and it was justification for destruction and mass killing that was worldwide recognized. In the end, i just want to say that i didnt make up nothing,this stuff is all in offical textbooks in schools and other reputable institutions.
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by sunimirio »

papist wrote:One problem with your analysis Ivan - Austria demanded far more than an investigation. After Franz Ferdinand was killed. They also demanded that Serbia suppress all anti-Austrian movements. As these demands were made, Austria was mobilizing and their foreign minister was leaving Serbia, anticipating a refusal.

Internal documents from. The time show that the Austrians wanted Serbia to refuse so they could defeat them militarily and end their ambitions in Bosnia.
For Balkans in that time was typically to say:"Powder Keg" waiting to explode (Great War), just need a little spark (assassination). :D
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by Good ol Ivan »

sunimirio wrote:
ivan wrote:Alright, excuse me if I was rude - but really, I still judge you and everybody else on an individual level - when I see coincidences I mostly just take them with humor.
...even though coincidences do help us to form an idea of a larger picture :whistling:

Differences between Serbian and Croatian are on a dialect level - a Dutch however will struggle to understand a German, just like a French person will struggle to understand an Italian. Thats not the case for Bosnians, Croats and Serbs - which are the same nation (south slavs). Serbs and croats are more analogous to Sardinians and Sicilians (both Italians), than to Italians and French.
I hope you understand that you are just pushing propaganda which was used to legitimize the dissolution of Yugoslavia.
Absolutely wrong:[i style="font-weight:bold'"]"Serbs and croats are more analogous to Sardinians and Sicilians (both Italians), than to Italians and French."[/i]|Frist of all Serbian and Croatian are not dialects they are languanges.As i said in last post South Slavs doesnt exists as nation,they are group of people,subgroup of Slavic people,that speak South Slavic languanges. For example Germans and Austrians speak very similar languange but if you call some Austrian guy a German he will be very mad on you. Croatians wanted united Yugoslavia (after Great War,because of knowing that alone they cant make through in that time). Kingdom of Yugoslavia was formed and not for long Petar I. and his assistants saw Kingdom of Yugoslavia chance to make "Greater Serbia" plan (Ilija Gra?anin 1844.).After that in communists Yugoslavia, after Josip Broz Tito death(1980.), Serbians wanted again to spread influence in state, of course Croatians,Bosnians,Macedonians,Slovenian people didnt like that and they wanted to peacefully leave (Berlin Wall) but Serbia used "YPA" ("Yugoslav Peoples Army") force to stop that and only propaganda that was there spread was Serbian with highlight on "rescue endangered Serbs" wich was clearly not the case and it was justification for destruction and mass killing that was worldwide recognized. In the end, i just want to say that i didnt make up nothing,this stuff is all in offical textbooks in schools and other reputable institutions.
Indeed, Austrians are Germans.
Hell, Bavarians have more in common with Austrians than they do with the rest of Germany.

Anyway, while nationalism did break the country (Yugoslavia), it wasnt only on the serbs part.
Funny how nowhere in your post you mention the Usta?e. Or Tudman and his warmongering intentions.
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What if the central powers won WW1

Post by sunimirio »

ivan wrote:
sunimirio wrote:Absolutely wrong:[i style="font-weight:bold'"]"Serbs and croats are more analogous to Sardinians and Sicilians (both Italians), than to Italians and French."[/i]|Frist of all Serbian and Croatian are not dialects they are languanges.As i said in last post South Slavs doesnt exists as nation,they are group of people,subgroup of Slavic people,that speak South Slavic languanges. For example Germans and Austrians speak very similar languange but if you call some Austrian guy a German he will be very mad on you. Croatians wanted united Yugoslavia (after Great War,because of knowing that alone they cant make through in that time). Kingdom of Yugoslavia was formed and not for long Petar I. and his assistants saw Kingdom of Yugoslavia chance to make "Greater Serbia" plan (Ilija Gra?anin 1844.).After that in communists Yugoslavia, after Josip Broz Tito death(1980.), Serbians wanted again to spread influence in state, of course Croatians,Bosnians,Macedonians,Slovenian people didnt like that and they wanted to peacefully leave (Berlin Wall) but Serbia used "YPA" ("Yugoslav Peoples Army") force to stop that and only propaganda that was there spread was Serbian with highlight on "rescue endangered Serbs" wich was clearly not the case and it was justification for destruction and mass killing that was worldwide recognized. In the end, i just want to say that i didnt make up nothing,this stuff is all in offical textbooks in schools and other reputable institutions.
Indeed, Austrians are Germans.
Hell, Bavarians have more in common with Austrians than they do with the rest of Germany.

Anyway, while nationalism did break the country (Yugoslavia), it wasnt only on the serbs part.
Funny how nowhere in your post you mention the Usta?e. Or Tudman and his warmongering intentions.
Well it seems pointless to "discuss" with you ... whenever i say that i want my autonomy, that i dont want to be mixed with other South Slavs (i dont hate any other South Slav people) i am labeled with far right and nationalism by you ... btw. Tu??man made that Serb party is in Croatian parliament and they picked minister and other function idk but to you maybe that is "warmongering intentions".

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