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United States of America jacksonpollock
Dragoon
Posts: 222

03 Nov 2015, 21:29

Just wondering what the Europeans here think about all the new Muslims coming to their countries.
No Flag stevelance
Musketeer
Posts: 56

03 Nov 2015, 21:35

Well it's hard for me to imagine a good future with sharia law imposed on me so rag headed people can be dangerous in a way. Sorry not trying to be racist just how I think the future here in germany will work under merkel.
No Flag Mr. Pecksniff
Howdah
Posts: 1648

03 Nov 2015, 21:55

Immigration leads to net benefits, although in the present situation most of those benefits will accrue to the immigrants themselves.
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No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787

03 Nov 2015, 22:10

Immigrant are paid people who are trying to ruin the peace in Europe and then ISIS can use that weakness and create big country or khalifat or whatever they will call it.
Alot of people are scared of this.
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
No Flag mongobillione
Dragoon
Donator 02
Posts: 467

03 Nov 2015, 22:39

i dont care im from switzerland ^^
No Flag stevelance
Musketeer
Posts: 56

03 Nov 2015, 23:24

mnogobillione wrote:i dont care im from switzerland ^^


You wil care when you have no head (beheaded by Muslim)
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

04 Nov 2015, 00:06

I don't know. I don't think a large group of people from an entirely different culture will succesfully integrate in a society, and therefor will cause problems in the near future and will keep doing so unfortunately. In the Netherlands, large groups of Maroccan and Turkish people came here (like what, 50 years ago), they are in the 4th or 5th or 6th generation now and could still be considered a big problem in our society. Itd be okay with them staying here untill things over there calm down a bit. It's really harsh to send people home after they've build up a life here though.
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Romania Dolan
Jaeger
Posts: 4322
Location: aka Neuron

04 Nov 2015, 00:09

I think it's part of a bigger picture. (Arab) Muslims are torn between seeing the material development of the West which they want to have, but are stuck with medieval mentalities which hamper any chance that they could reshape/reform their countries of origin in such a way that they could have that back home.

And so they migrate to Western countries hoping they could get both: the high living standards of the West and the chance to keep their culture intact and plant it in a new soil.
I love good randomness; highly addictive.
No Flag stevelance
Musketeer
Posts: 56

04 Nov 2015, 00:10

jerom wrote:I don''t know. I don''t think a large group of people from an entirely different culture will succesfully integrate in a society, and therefor will cause problems in the near future and will keep doing so unfortunately. In the Netherlands, large groups of Maroccan and Turkish people came here (like what, 50 years ago), they are in the 4th or 5th or 6th generation now and could still be considered a big problem in our society. Itd be okay with them staying here untill things over there calm down a bit. It''s really harsh to send people home after they''ve build up a life here though.
There''s no place like home however.
United States of America Metis
Howdah
Posts: 1661

04 Nov 2015, 00:19

dolan wrote:I think it''s part of a bigger picture. (Arab) Muslims are torn between seeing the material development of the West which they want to have, but are stuck with medieval mentalities which hamper any chance that they could reshape/reform their countries of origin in such a way that they could have that back home.

And so they migrate to Western countries hoping they could get both: the high living standards of the West and the chance to keep their culture intact and plant it in a new soil.
I think you have "hit the nail on the head" here. Many want something better than they have while at the same time desiring to maintain the archaic belief systems and laws that prevent them from developing it themselves.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

04 Nov 2015, 00:34

metis wrote:
dolan wrote:I think its part of a bigger picture. (Arab) Muslims are torn between seeing the material development of the West which they want to have, but are stuck with medieval mentalities which hamper any chance that they could reshape/reform their countries of origin in such a way that they could have that back home.

And so they migrate to Western countries hoping they could get both: the high living standards of the West and the chance to keep their culture intact and plant it in a new soil.
I think you have "hit the nail on the head" here. Many want something better than they have while at the same time desiring to maintain the archaic belief systems and laws that prevent them from developing it themselves.
Im not so sure that is so correct. To say the sole reason for reduced living standards their is their moral beliefs and culture is jumping to conclusions. There are also plenty historical reasons for it.
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Romania Dolan
Jaeger
Posts: 4322
Location: aka Neuron

04 Nov 2015, 00:53

It kinda is because the Arab world was technologically more advanced than the West during the Middle Ages up to the Renaissance. The first university in the world was created as a place to study Muslim teachings. Also, we managed to recover Aristotle's writings from Arab sources, which had a huge impact on the re-discovery of ancient texts during the Renaissance.

The thing is, the Arab world stopped evolving after that, whereas Europe started flourishing both culturally and technologically during and after the Renaissance. Political modernity started incredibly early in Europe, with the 11th century Northern Italy city-states which were the first modern states in which political power was elected and which featured the first forms of capitalism (the city states thrived on maritime commerce).

From that point onwards Europe took the lead in technological advancement and never really lost it (until it spawned the USA).
I love good randomness; highly addictive.
No Flag jaype22
Musketeer
Posts: 66

04 Nov 2015, 00:54

stevelance wrote:Well it''s hard for me to imagine a good future with sharia law imposed on me so rag headed people can be dangerous in a way. Sorry not trying to be racist just how I think the future here in germany will work under merkel.
Ah nice, a supporter of PEGIDA or "Die Alternative f?r Deutschland"?
United States of America Metis
Howdah
Posts: 1661

04 Nov 2015, 01:00

jerom wrote:
metis wrote:I think you have "hit the nail on the head" here. Many want something better than they have while at the same time desiring to maintain the archaic belief systems and laws that prevent them from developing it themselves.
Im not so sure that is so correct. To say the sole reason for reduced living standards their is their moral beliefs and culture is jumping to conclusions. There are also plenty historical reasons for it.
Had their been no oil in the Middle East what do you think the Arabian peninsula would look like today? Any modern culture that treats half its population like possessions isnt going to advance much naturally. It seems ironic that ISIS is becoming so much of a pain due to its use of Western arms and social media while its Sharia law decries Western values. The reason is oil money and organized crime.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

04 Nov 2015, 01:03

dolan wrote:It kinda is because the Arab world was technologically more advanced than the West during the Middle Ages up to the Renaissance. The first university in the world was created as a place to study Muslim teachings. Also, we managed to recover Aristotle''s writings from Arab sources, which had a huge impact on the re-discovery of ancient texts during the Renaissance.

The thing is, the Arab world stopped evolving after that, whereas Europe started flourishing both culturally and technologically during and after the Renaissance. Political modernity started incredibly early in Europe, with the 11th century Northern Italy city-states which were the first modern states in which political power was elected and which featured the first forms of capitalism (the city states thrived on maritime commerce).

From that point onwards Europe took the lead in technological advancement and never really lost it (until it spawned the USA).

one could argue that europe still has the technological lead even.

Anyhow, it seems the fact that europe manage to suddenly develope really quickly was more coincidence than the result of culture. For example, most early european universities also had a significant portion of it devoted to studying the religion. Even Newton spent quite some time studying religious texts.
United States of America Metis
Howdah
Posts: 1661

04 Nov 2015, 02:08

jerom wrote:Even Newton spent quite some time studying religious texts.


I think that Newton was trying to reconcile his growing understanding of the natural world with the deeply-entrenched religious beliefs of his time. Not to mention that it was politically expedient at the time for a university professor to also be an ordained minister, just as it is for a US presidential candidate to be a "Christian.". Newton never became ordained because he couldn''t reconcile church dogma with his understanding of reality. He did postulate that the presence of a divinity might be the ultimate cause of natural law. However, we now know that natural laws are a manifestation of the properties of energy, and that the idea of a divinity is unnecessary when describing them.
No Flag mongobillione
Dragoon
Donator 02
Posts: 467

04 Nov 2015, 08:04

stevelance wrote:
mnogobillione wrote:i dont care im from switzerland ^^
You wil care when you have no head (beheaded by Muslim)
u pretty sure have no idea how we behave to immigrants :D
No Flag mongobillione
Dragoon
Donator 02
Posts: 467

04 Nov 2015, 08:17

metis wrote:Had their been no oil in the Middle East what do you think the Arabian peninsula would look like today? Any modern culture that treats half its population like possessions isn''t going to advance much naturally. It seems ironic that ISIS is becoming so much of a pain due to its use of Western arms and social media while its Sharia law decries Western values. The reason is oil money and organized cime.





100%. true
No Flag igorix
Crossbow
Posts: 10

04 Nov 2015, 08:52

I'm an immigrant myself and I'm often taken by a muslim and therefore suffering racism. From personal experience I think not all muslims are medieval minded as stated before, i should not have to say they're pretty much like everyone (at least the younger generation). I think they didn't integrate because the hosts didn't let them to. And if they are for 50 years in a country i hardly suppose their home is on theirs ancestrals land. Back in Brazil we received tons of germans, italians and japaneses last century and i'm pretty sure they aren't germans, italians or japaneses anymore, everyone reconizes their brazilian nationality.
Germany blasdg
Skirmisher
Posts: 113

04 Nov 2015, 09:19

I am a german and I have a few things that immigrants HAVE to do if you ask me:
- learn the language
- respect our laws and rules of the everyday life

Thats it. I dont care whether they are muslims, atheists, christian people or whatever as long as they dont harass me or other people (e.g. women as the islamic countries tend to do).
No Flag sunimirio
Musketeer
Posts: 54

04 Nov 2015, 09:54

I live close to border as you can see in Map of ESOC members thread. :D One day i was passing by the town where immigrants were redirected (registered,medical help,food and water) to Slovenia and Hungary border but fight started between Afghan and Syrian people that was absolute chaos, stones ,scraps were flying over to one side and then to another side. It was a shocking experience, most of the wounded was accommodated in hospitals by our medical ambulance.

However,i am very skeptical about all that immigrants situation, they have so much money that they are giving 300-500? for SIM card. Police is trying to catch anyone who illegaly leads immigrants to border. Some of the immigrants throw away food that local people give them ( behind a shelter for immigrants in bush, police found thrown fine food and water).

Well, allready 214 000 immigrants were passed through my country and every day new 7000-8000 are coming. In the end atleast they said that Croatia was only country at their travel that give them support, shelter and fast transportation to border (I hope spared of ALLAHU AKBAR) ... :D
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

04 Nov 2015, 10:51

What I found interesting is that we assume that they leave places like syria because it is absolutely terrible over there, but when they get in these refugee places, they still complain about the quality of the accomodation and resources there. That makes me wonder how much they fled due to the circumstances over there, and how much they fled to find "luck" in our rich countries. The former seems like an okay reason to temporarily accept immigrants, the latter not so much. I still believe it would be better to only let them stay here until it is safe to go back. That might fend of the luckseekers a little bit.
No Flag sunimirio
Musketeer
Posts: 54

04 Nov 2015, 10:59

jerom wrote:What I found interesting is that we assume that they leave places like syria because it is absolutely terrible over there, but when they get in these refugee places, they still complain about the quality of the accomodation and resources there. That makes me wonder how much they fled due to the circumstances over there, and how much they fled to find "luck" in our rich countries. The former seems like an okay reason to temporarily accept immigrants, the latter not so much. I still believe it would be better to only let them stay here until it is safe to go back. That might fend of the luckseekers a little bit.
When they crosed border and they were located at shalters they didn''t want to stay they just "need to get to Germany" that is what they were talking on tv interviews. I think no fence, no army can stop that mass of people.
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Romania Dolan
Jaeger
Posts: 4322
Location: aka Neuron

04 Nov 2015, 11:07

jerom wrote:
dolan wrote:
one could argue that europe still has the technological lead even.

Anyhow, it seems the fact that europe manage to suddenly develope really quickly was more coincidence than the result of culture. For example, most early european universities also had a significant portion of it devoted to studying the religion. Even Newton spent quite some time studying religious texts.
Coincidence? Hell no, it was the Renaissance which pulled us out of the Dark Ages. Thats why we are where we are today.
You couldnt write or study anything which contradicted the church dogma.
I love good randomness; highly addictive.
No Flag Mr. Pecksniff
Howdah
Posts: 1648

04 Nov 2015, 11:09

I think the thing we have most to fear is that Europe will some day become so overrun with Muslims that be headings and Islamist demonstrations will become a commonplace of daily life.

These Muslims reject contraception, and base their notion of family on a view that advocates polygamy and unrestricted procreation. The future of Europe consists not in prosperity and utopia, but in the rise of the swamp-stained Islamic crescent over the ruins of liberal civilization.

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