why are some players not good anymore?

[mnogud]

Nagayumi who was once an OP player, possibly the best japanese player.... his stats are so underwhelming right now, same for nobumanteikoku whom H2O considered as one of the best.... its not like they are highly inactive, they do play many a times. So what is the reason for their lack of performance?

[Marco1698]

You are the guy who once talked kinda: i am not sure if grunt would be good if he plays with new top players. So I think it's unnecessary speaking with you, but I possibly know the answer for your question and I am going to tell you that. Simply, when a player doesn't play as much as he used to, he gets rusty, so his stats won't be that good anymore. When nagayumi was a 2800 elo, he was just playing 10+ games per day, so he was in shape. Today he plays for fun some games, randomly. Same for nobuman, but this is a rule which include any player, if you don't play constantly, you are destined to get worse.

[mnogud]

You are the guy who once talked kinda: i am not sure if grunt would be good if he plays with new top players. So I think it's unnecessary speaking with you, but I possibly know the answer for your question and I am going to tell you that. Simply, when a player doesn't play as much as he used to, he gets rusty, so his stats won't be that good anymore. When nagayumi was a 2800 elo, he was just playing 10+ games per day, so he was in shape. Today he plays for fun some games, randomly. Same for nobuman, but this is a rule which include any player, if you don't play constantly, you are destined to get worse.

you remember well

[Nymphomaniac]

nagayumi is still pretty good as he beat boneng twice in jcg. Pretty sure if naga played in winter tourney, he would be in top 4 probably losing to only h2o and lordraphael.

[britishmusketeer]

elos are not as high in general as they used to be.

[fightinfrenchman]

elos are not as high in general as they used to be.

This is why we need to make ELOs great again

[thebritish]

elos are not as high in general as they used to be.

This is why we need to make ELOs great again

I am too rusty for that

[musketjr]

This is a good question and I think it has to come down to attitude. It's often repeated but superficially counter-intuitive to think that mentality really has a profound effect on performance (in aoe, as well as with sports etc.), because superficially you can see the tangible skills, while not the mentality (rather, you see the effects of mentality, but not the mentality itself). You can see in a recorded game that nagayumi might be capable of playing like a pr 45, like you can see that a sportsman is capable of great skill, in a given moment or situation, but what gives nagayumi the status of a pr 45 player? (and don't get hung up on the precise pr - 45 -, it's merely indicative of a certain status or skill level).

Well, probably the main characteristic is consistency. You can see, for example, an average football team is capable, as a team, of scoring a given goal as good as a great Barcelona goal, but they will not do so consistently. If they did, the average football team would necessarily have the same status as Barcelona: as a great football team (not as an average one).

So, if nagayumi - or any previously good player - used to be in some high tier, and their current performance isn't due to a lack of activity, then it really must come down to (lack of) consistency, probably caused by a change in mentality.

[mnogud]

This is a good question and I think it has to come down to attitude. It's often repeated but superficially counter-intuitive to think that mentality really has a profound effect on performance (in aoe, as well as with sports etc.), because superficially you can see the tangible skills, while not the mentality (rather, you see the effects of mentality, but not the mentality itself). You can see in a recorded game that nagayumi might be capable of playing like a pr 45, like you can see that a sportsman is capable of great skill, in a given moment or situation, but what gives nagayumi the status of a pr 45 player? (and don't get hung up on the precise pr - 45 -, it's merely indicative of a certain status or skill level).

Well, probably the main characteristic is consistency. You can see, for example, an average football team is capable, as a team, of scoring a given goal as good as a great Barcelona goal, but they will not do so consistently. If they did, the average football team would necessarily have the same status as Barcelona: as a great football team (not as an average one).

So, if nagayumi - or any previously good player - used to be in some high tier, and their current performance isn't due to a lack of activity, then it really must come down to (lack of) consistency, probably caused by a change in mentality.

but imo if you are good at something, a change in mentality would only mean saturation of your skills rather than degradation, which is the case of nagayumi atm.

[momuuu]

Mentality is weirdly annoying. I think all players have experienced indescribable ups and downs in their skill level, sometimes even fluctuating every day.

[fightinfrenchman]

Mentality is weirdly annoying. I think all players have experienced indescribable ups and downs in their skill level, sometimes even fluctuating every day.

Those daily fluctuations generally correlate with how much they're drinking.

[macacoalbino]

This is a good question and I think it has to come down to attitude. It's often repeated but superficially counter-intuitive to think that mentality really has a profound effect on performance (in aoe, as well as with sports etc.), because superficially you can see the tangible skills, while not the mentality (rather, you see the effects of mentality, but not the mentality itself). You can see in a recorded game that nagayumi might be capable of playing like a pr 45, like you can see that a sportsman is capable of great skill, in a given moment or situation, but what gives nagayumi the status of a pr 45 player? (and don't get hung up on the precise pr - 45 -, it's merely indicative of a certain status or skill level).

Well, probably the main characteristic is consistency. You can see, for example, an average football team is capable, as a team, of scoring a given goal as good as a great Barcelona goal, but they will not do so consistently. If they did, the average football team would necessarily have the same status as Barcelona: as a great football team (not as an average one).

So, if nagayumi - or any previously good player - used to be in some high tier, and their current performance isn't due to a lack of activity, then it really must come down to (lack of) consistency, probably caused by a change in mentality.

In other words: He's trolling instead of playing serious

[Panmaster]

You get worse as you get older and slower. Your mind deteriorates eventually as does your body.

[fightinfrenchman]

As you get older you slow down, get tired faster and get aches & pains. Past ~45 mentally it's downhill.

Just ask @Metis

notification

[tilanus]

Just curious btw: Do you guys think these 'legendary' best players of the early days of AoE3 (iamgrunt, StarSky, Parfait, Phoenix, ..) understood and mastered the game itself better than the best players nowadays? Have the old winning strats of grunt & others become obsolete/average nowadays or would they still cause serious trouble for players like H2O?

[bobabu]

Nagayumi who was once an OP player, possibly the best japanese player.... his stats are so underwhelming right now, same for nobumanteikoku whom H2O considered as one of the best.... its not like they are highly inactive, they do play many a times. So what is the reason for their lack of performance?

Maybe he doesn't give every game 100 percent and chills a bit.

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[Marco1698]

You get worse as you get older and slower. Your mind deteriorates eventually as does your body.

Perfect explanation.

[Marco1698]

Just curious btw: Do you guys think these 'legendary' best players of the early days of AoE3 (iamgrunt, StarSky, Parfait, Phoenix, ..) understood and mastered the game itself better than the best players nowadays? Have the old winning strats of grunt & others become obsolete/average nowadays or would they still cause serious trouble for players like H2O?

This is a question without a concrete answer. Nobody can respond correctly here,because old recs include an old meta, so old strategies with different timings and stuff. I think that they had talent, they were super good when the game was really active. In my opinion starsky nature phoenix etc reached a level which is higher than current h2o. Today if they would come back, they wouldn't reach a very good in short time, because they are older and super rusty

[Goodspeed]

A number of reasons

1. The shifting meta means the builds that older players are used to and practiced a lot back in their day are getting outdated (and there's the smaller techniques that were discovered later, like the wall thing) and they have a lot of new stuff to learn.
2. As you get older it becomes harder to learn new things which makes it harder to improve as a player. In an RTS which is constantly evolving it's hard to keep up with the competition. If you look at the competitive gaming scene (Starcraft) you can see players often fall off in their early twenties.
3. Adults have more responsibilities in real life and as a result much less time to spend on the game.
4. I think the competitive spirit of a player is a lot stronger as a teenager. There is more motivation to be good at the game. Why? Multiple reasons, I think part of it is that being good at the game is more of a realistic goal when you have a lot of time to spend on it and this sort of spirals into both more time commitment and more motivation to be better.

The younger you are the more time you have and the less time you need to be good at something. Those are the most important factors I think.

[yurashic]

I meet Nagayumi time to time in quicksearch, he is still playing quite well, if he does not play in tournaments it does not mean he is a bad player.

Nobumanteikoku now plays scenarios with his Japanese friends and other people. He made a funny comp stomp scenario which is often hosted on ESO and is very interesting and competitive.

[fei123456]

nagayumi didnt play seriously. if he does he can 3:0 diarouga (in spring championship).

[mnogud]

A number of reasons

1. The shifting meta means the builds that older players are used to and practiced a lot back in their day are getting outdated (and there's the smaller techniques that were discovered later, like the wall thing) and they have a lot of new stuff to learn.
2. As you get older it becomes harder to learn new things which makes it harder to improve as a player. In an RTS which is constantly evolving it's hard to keep up with the competition. If you look at the competitive gaming scene (Starcraft) you can see players often fall off in their early twenties.
3. Adults have more responsibilities in real life and as a result much less time to spend on the game.
4. I think the competitive spirit of a player is a lot stronger as a teenager. There is more motivation to be good at the game. Why? Multiple reasons, I think part of it is that being good at the game is more of a realistic goal when you have a lot of time to spend on it and this sort of spirals into both more time commitment and more motivation to be better.

The younger you are the more time you have and the less time you need to be good at something. Those are the most important factors I think.

nagayumi isn't old school lol

[mnogud]

I meet Nagayumi time to time in quicksearch, he is still playing quite well, if he does not play in tournaments it does not mean he is a bad player.

Nobumanteikoku now plays scenarios with his Japanese friends and other people. He made a funny comp stomp scenario which is often hosted on ESO and is very interesting and competitive.

he is definitely good but far from how op he was

[Kaiserklein]

I don't really know how good Nobumanteikoku used to be but atm he's probs very rusty because he has approx lt col level