See ya

[iCourt]

Metis came back. Why not just leave? Why some big lame thread about it?

[gibson]

Gotta get attention man. Although I prefer for people to announce their departure in some form or another so that we aren't left wondering what happened and if they died or not....

[iCourt]

Seems a bit egotistical.

[Marco1698]

Good job leaving this community, I will follow you bro, just waiting for _H2O pm

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[KINGofOsmane]

i win spring tourney then i join you #Irekall

[deleted_user]

Adios!

[91]

I think it's better that people say why they leave actually, that way we know where things stand.

I know that several people have left ESOC out of frustration and this to me is at least somewhat alarming. I feel like there are some people which are very well at home at ESOC, but that we also alienate other groups of people. I very well wish to have heart-to-heart talks with those people and try to come to an understanding.

Just look at Blackstar_OP. I've also heard rumors of veni not liking how things are done at ESOC. Musketjr? Stanley_winston? Metis used to post very actively and now just pops up to tell people about trolls.

Problem with ESOC is that we've often felt that we were doing things right without a shade of doubt, when in reality I think that some people have had pent-up frustration build up in themselves.

Most of the forum users don't particularly like dragon (personally I do like him, even though I disagree with a lot of his idea), so unfortunately this to me is ESOC alienating yet another person, yet no one is going to care because "well, no one likes that guy anyway" or "well, the off topic section is a trash section anyway so who cares that people who only post there leave". This to me is not very inclusive and it goes against one of the core values of ESOC, which is being an inclusive community hub for anyone to pop in.

Now, just to be fair, I really think that most of what ESOC does is done very well.

I'm not a moderator, just a site developer, but I did help out as a mod before. I got moderators, admins, and regular users on my side before taking some decisions to lock threads/delete posts with harsh content, and I thought it was a really obvious decision to do so. But the amount hate in PMs, and flames I have received for so few actions made me quit that path. I really admire the mods here how much shit they can take, and we should all value that if you ask me.

Of course we must be able to joke around, but usually the more quite ones like stricter rules, and the spammers (I don't mean this word as negative) like a bit more open attitude. I see reports coming in, and everyone has to realize that people have different thresholds for what is considered crossing the line on a forum. The elite posters are probably also (usually) more used to flame, and they can take more. But the fresh ones don't realy enjoy it and might take it a bit more personal.

Sad that people are leaving, but in order to run tournaments and other events I don't think flaming should be part of it, but rather keep it at civil discussions and useful content for readers (not just posters). I hope that you can also see the perspective from the eyes of the moderators, with the difficult task of keeping everyone with different opinions happy. The ones complaining about flaming usually don't do so openly, because they will get flamed obviously.

See ya, but maybe you will check in again later on. Who knows, maybe the policies are different and more to your liking later on.

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[fightinfrenchman]

Yeah, I know first-hand that being a moderator will get you flamed on both sides. That's the name of the game though. You'll always piss someone off when you do something, so the right move to deal with that is to be transparent. Two-way communication and empathy are very important when moderating ESOC since it's supposed to be an inclusive community site.

There will always be a small divide between ESOC and the community; it's up to ESOC staff to go out of their way to try to understand the community and their feelings on things.

I'm also not really asking for the right to flame, nor am I talking about moderation policy. I am talking about other underlying issues which have steered people away from ESOC. I gave a few examples of people who turned away from ESOC (and AoE3, unfortunately) and I'm wondering why that happened. What did ESOC do wrong? I'm not sure myself, but after discussing some things with other people, I've come to realize that ESOC has made mistakes in the past. I'm not entirely sure what they are and I'd like to find out. The only way to find that out is by open discussion.

New incog is great

[evilcheadar]

Yeah, I know first-hand that being a moderator will get you flamed on both sides. That's the name of the game though. You'll always piss someone off when you do something, so the right move to deal with that is to be transparent. Two-way communication and empathy are very important when moderating ESOC since it's supposed to be an inclusive community site.

There will always be a small divide between ESOC and the community; it's up to ESOC staff to go out of their way to try to understand the community and their feelings on things.

I'm also not really asking for the right to flame, nor am I talking about moderation policy. I am talking about other underlying issues which have steered people away from ESOC. I gave a few examples of people who turned away from ESOC (and AoE3, unfortunately) and I'm wondering why that happened. What did ESOC do wrong? I'm not sure myself, but after discussing some things with other people, I've come to realize that ESOC has made mistakes in the past. I'm not entirely sure what they are and I'd like to find out. The only way to find that out is by open discussion.

Yesh it so sad when people complain about mod actions !

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[fightinfrenchman]

Not talking about mod actions.

I think they are mostly fine these days, barring a few things I don't agree with on a personal level.

Be a guest on the podcast and talk about it

[thebritish]

Legend, cya mate. Gonna follow you up.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5491

[krichk]

Although free speech is good, I'll never understand why some people need to flame random people just because they are allowed to do so.
Not that I've noticed that you like flaming people Dr Legend but honestly the only moderation actions I've seen on this site were taken to prevent excessive flaming or racism.
People can do whatever they want with their consenting friends but please why is it necessary to insult people like Garja or Divine that are obviously doing their best for the community and just don't like to be flamed? (if I understood correctly)
Ok enough cock sucking for today but honestly I don't understand why some intelligent grown-up people have to insult one another to feel happy

[Papist]

Well I hardly visit the place anymore, so I don't think it would be considered out of the ordinary, if I didn't post for a while. I'm just letting the few people here that I care about, know I won't be posting round these parts anymore. I also hope that they follow my lead, and show the Admins how bad their anti-freespeech policies are.

Instead of making a big, long post about how bad things are here, how about you reference specific admin decisions and explain what you would like to see be done differently?

[evilcheadar]

Although free speech is good, I'll never understand why some people need to flame random people just because they are allowed to do so.
Not that I've noticed that you like flaming people Dr Legend but honestly the only moderation actions I've seen on this site were taken to prevent excessive flaming or racism.
People can do whatever they want with their consenting friends but please why is it necessary to insult people like Garja or Divine that are obviously doing their best for the community and just don't like to be flamed? (if I understood correctly)
Ok enough cock sucking for today but honestly I don't understand why some intelligent grown-up people have to insult one another to feel happy

Ok in garja's case it isn't "obvious"

[tilanus]

The mods are doing a good job. This forum has been dominated way too long by toxic trolls who don't give a duck about the things they say. Mistakes from users and mods are only human. Frequent mistakes though, especially of the same kind, are either intended or an indicator of incapability and ignorance. So any of these specialists with 3 warnings complaining about how hard the mods and admins would be: they have to be because of people like you refuse to adopt a less toxic forum behaviour. Coming up with things like oppression of free speech are poor excuses. Go to some countries with low free press index, then you know'll what that means.

Most great forum communities have 3 shots policy that automatically results in temp bans. Some people just need to feel to learn ..

[krichk]

Ok in garja's case it isn't "obvious"

Are we talking about the guy who probably spent hundreds of hours designing balanced maps and that at least ten people like to harass for being a selfish arrogant prick? :p
And just to be clear, when I talk about flaming it has nothing to do with subtle basement trolling

[Le Dragon]

I agree that mod power abuse has been taken too far recently. I propose we set up a new community based firmly on values of free speech, and have everyone move there.

[Metis]

Metis came back. Why not just leave? Why some big lame thread about it?

With the exception of coming back here to generally agree with Dr. Legend, Metis is going to be posting only in the game-related sections from now on.

It's not just this forum that has gone heavy-handed on the moderation either. The SJW, PC police types have gotten out of hand on much of the internet, so much so that a single complaint, after ten thousand posts on another forum got me a dozen stern notices from admins that I'd better watch my step. After I posted a rebuttal with a dozen legitimate citations backing up my claim and refuting everything the complainer (who was a moderator, BTW) said, that post too was deleted. Therefore, I just quit that forum. I've got far too many things going on in real life to try to have a rational discussion with internet fanatics.

[Le Dragon]

Too many people these days are convinced that the importance of having a 'safe space' where nobody's feelings get hurt is greater than the importance of sincere, thoughtful discussion.

[evilcheadar]

Ok in garja's case it isn't "obvious"

Are we talking about the guy who probably spent hundreds of hours designing balanced maps and that at least ten people like to harass for being a selfish arrogant prick? :p
And just to be clear, when I talk about flaming it has nothing to do with subtle basement trolling

He likes to silence people who disagree with him which is sketchy!

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[fightinfrenchman]

Too many people these days are convinced that the importance of having a 'safe space' where nobody's feelings get hurt is greater than the importance of sincere, thoughtful discussion.

Yesh it's dumb that the mods delete threads supporting Nazism, some great discussion happening there