The how does anything exist thread

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The how does anything exist thread

Post by _venox_ »

So we are just talking about the US then, disregarding any other nation in which the education in philosophy and the cost may differ.
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Post by deleted_user0 »

ROFL oh no u didnt.
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Post by Goodspeed »

drlegend wrote:The ability to see the big picture and think critically and other skills allegedly acquired in the four or five years of philosophy learning in college in exchange for dozens of thousands of dollars are very basic skills and there is no excuse for not already possessing them by the time you''re old enough for college. (facepalm)
For someone preaching this, you lack an awful lot of those skills. You still very much think in absolutes, for example. Confirmation bias is also an issue for you, you will quickly believe things that agree with your assumptions no matter the source and you read very selectively. These combined quickly get you into conspiracy theorist territory.

You''re also very bad at discussions, in the sense that you often don''t really make an effort to understand the other guy''s point. After all you are entirely uninterested in anything they have to say, since they don''t agree with you.

I think a couple of years of philosophy would do you some good. Being open minded is one of the more important things you''d learn.
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Post by deleted_user0 »

Its just getting better every post XD
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Post by Goodspeed »

I deserved that, I know my post was a little uncalled for but I feel like you need to hear it ') Anyway I never studied philosophy and wouldn't, this is a subject you can study on your own by simply reading the right books and I never felt a need to.
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Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

calmyourtits wrote:I deserved that, I know my post was a little uncalled for but I feel like you need to hear it?') Anyway I never studied philosophy and wouldn''t, this is a subject you can study on your own by simply reading the right books and I never felt a need to.



Can you name a subject that cant be studied simply by reading the right books?
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Post by Goodspeed »

frycookofdoom wrote:
calmyourtits wrote:I deserved that, I know my post was a little uncalled for but I feel like you need to hear it ') Anyway I never studied philosophy and wouldnt, this is a subject you can study on your own by simply reading the right books and I never felt a need to
Can you name a subject that cant be studied simply by reading the right books?
Anything that requires specific skills you need to practice. Which is almost everything.
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Post by benj89 »

"The ability to see the big picture and think critically and other skills allegedly". That's the only thing any selective company will look for, and the more selective the company is, the more they will ask you to have theoretical instead of practicable knowledge.
In france, best students in eco/engineering spend two year studying pure theory, then go into school, get into few more theory (and drinking), then learn most of the practicable part at their job, because of their background and their ability to learn fast.
my bro learnt the accounting needed to work as an audit at EY in 2 weeks, after studying it 4 month in college, while accounting student is average schools take it at least 3 years.
Studying classes like philosophy isn't all about how practicable the learning is, but also how it sharps and sculpt your brain, that's what employers want.
Philosophy could teach you so many thing you don't even realize (and please don't tell me you have any serious philosophical background :)).
btw, you just destroyed Martin Luther King quote, that's sad :s
"The function of education is to teach one to think intensively and to think critically. Intelligence plus character ?? that is the goal of true education", most high school student don't know how to properly think critically, but seems like you are an undercover genius, it's known that geniuses tend to live in their own self built world and i respect that.
Goodspeed, you can study any classes on your own.
Computer science, any math class, bio, physics, any history, literature with the right books. education is not only about which knowledge you can get, it's way more than that (think about what's so important in having teachers, mentors, about not doing things by our own and being constantly judged and criticized, the challenge being a student is). But some genius don't need teachers, Tony Hsied, computer science major at Harvard, aced his classes without ever going to one (that's what he says), ceo of zappos/ ex ceo linkexchange sold for 265million, and there are plenty of them
"Teaching is more than imparting knowledge, it is inspiring change. Learning is more than absorbing facts, it is acquiring understanding." And considering the fact no one was born a genius, teaching is needed, and even the most known geniuses had mentors and people who educated them, long time after their 20s

then again, I don't think we talk about the same type of jobs. If you want to be a baker, yeah being cum laude in biochem from MIT won't help you that much, so I might be off topic here
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Post by Goodspeed »

I know you can study anything on your own, but not by just reading. You won't be able to solve complex math problems just by having read some books about it, and you won't learn programming just from books. Philosophy is different in that the skills you require for it you develop by thinking, not by doing.
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Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

calmyourtits wrote:I know you can study anything on your own, but not by just reading. You won''t be able to solve complex math problems just by having read some books about it, and you won''t learn programming just from books. Philosophy is different in that the skills you require for it you develop by thinking, not by doing.



And reading about a subject isn''t the same as practicing? Thinking about it deeply and critically isn''t practice?

What about when you practice your Maths skills by doing exercises. Aren''t you just thinking? What else is involved besides thinking and reading?

What about when you practice your programming skills by coding a program? What practice is involved besides thinking and reading? What''s ''doing'' in this case?
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Post by benj89 »

for the philosophy practice thing, it is obvious that it requires lot's of practice to write a good philosophy paper. there is a huge difference between having ideas in your mind, and being able to write them logically and express them with the clearest way possible on a paper, being able to synthesize and select the most important information from books you read (talked abt it earlier in how it sculpts your brain), and there is a huge difference between being a philosophy author and a philosophy student
science and literature bring different skills and complete each other that's why i believe in liberal art education but that's arguable

Legend i guess we are both right in a sense it depends a lot on what you aspire, it's also subjective after all. quickly, what would be the best investment for you?
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
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Post by benj89 »

you have to see education as an investment.
traveling and and having some work experience (which don't require education!?) won't bring you far in your career perspective if that's what matter.
it's like a friend who after high school went straight to work to have experience in computer science. he had to start college last year, because in our world without post secondary education and a degree, you quickly reach limit and obstacles in your career progression.
post secondary education is pretty much needed in any domain nowadays. it's probably sad but thats how it is, you can't come up show ur skills and say employ me and expect to have a bright future, that was an eventuality 50 years ago
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
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Post by benj89 »

oh so you are talking about those palo alto geniuses ? tell me those high pay jobs that require no college education im curious :)
my goal isn't pure employment, if it was I would have moved to a farm in Wyoming years ago.
"and most college graduates aren't working jobs that require a college or in some cases even highschool education" please tell me about it, im really curious to know if its ignorance or If we don't live in the same world
education should be free, but that's how it is
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
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Post by benj89 »

I asked you simple question, which job are high salaries/no post secondary education, except few exceptions like at silicon valley?
Can you really escape college nowaday if you want a safe future?
The discussion isn't about how fked up the tuition is nowadays, it's about can you expect a good career without it? (again, not talking about exceptions)
5 line should be enough to answer this, but don't send me on a thread where the first link I open from u is an article stating that Columbia and Georgetown are for rich kids or genuises (really!?) and tuition keep growing
if you can't prove me your point which should be simple in those few lines, then you better have considered those theoretical classes more back in college

I will still read the thread later, not tday
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Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Post by deleted_user0 »

drlegend wrote:Some of the fastest-growing and high-paying jobs over the next 10 years require no college education, and most college graduates aren''t working jobs that require a college or in some cases even highschool education, so you are literally losing thousands of dollars and half a decade of your life by studying junk majors at college if your goal is employment. Ultra and I discussed that a few days ago.



This is only true if you study to get a job with your degree. Some people still study in the old tradition of enriching yourself in a non-material way. And its true that much of it can be done on your own, some of it can''t be or isatleast alit easier or more satisfying if an expert explains all te ins and outs. And those persons can inspire you as benj said, to look at things you might not have seen or found on your own.
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Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

drlegend wrote:Some of the fastest-growing and high-paying jobs over the next 10 years require no college education, and most college graduates aren''t working jobs that require a college or in some cases even highschool education, so you are literally losing thousands of dollars and half a decade of your life by studying junk majors at college if your goal is employment. Ultra and I discussed that a few days ago.



And you backed out because in the end you had nothing to say against my cold hard facts
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Post by deleted_user0 »

Sounds gay #nohomo
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Post by Metis »

I saw mention of farming, implying that it takes little in the way of education. The old 160-acre family farm is a thing of the past. Most modern farms are multimillion dollar business operations. Have you have any idea of what the implements alone cost? You are looking at a quarter million or more for each tractor or combine and about the same for each semi truck, and those are used prices. Land here runs about a million dollars a section. With the tax and environmental laws a bachelors in Agribusiness is usually a minimum nowadays. Several farmers around here also have Masters degrees in Agronomy. In my little old "hick" farming town there are eight people living within 100 yards of me that hold graduate degrees.
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Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

Not everyone lives in the world's largest food exporter. <_<
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Post by deleted_user0 »

metis wrote:I saw mention of farming, implying that it takes little in the way of education. The old 160-acre family farm is a thing of the past. Most modern farms are multimillion dollar business operations. Have you have any idea of what the implements alone cost? You are looking at a quarter million or more for each tractor or combine and about the same for each semi truck, and those are used prices. Land here runs about a million dollars a section. With the tax and environmental laws a bachelors in Agribusiness is usually a minimum nowadays. Several farmers around here also have Masters degrees in Agronomy. In my little old "hick" farming town there are eight people living within 100 yards of me that hold graduate degrees.



You can learn all of that in practice from ya da. No need to learn to reid n rite ya no. Ermergerd y u such fascists...


On a more serious note, there is a difference between running a farm and working on one. Much of the cali nut n fruit harvesting is done by illegal immigrants with no highschool diploma between them.
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Post by benj89 »

If i mentioned farming its because I actually spent 1 summer and half of another in a farm in france and in a farm in Minnesota. I loved it. Both family I stayed with didn't had any "post secondary education", and the one in minnesota was more like a cattle farm, with corn also (he had enough corn fields to say: "look around you, everything you can actually see is mine", and trust me that was huge).
I can guess certain type of farming and especially the ones with modern equipment are as you described and require master's degree (I also know how selective it can be to go in those agricultural science/business schools) but the family farm thing isn't over yet I guess, not from what I saw at least. The guy had two employees, his 4 sons, 200ish cows and corn fields. a 5.30am - 12am job, everyday, almost no vacation, hardest job I ever saw and did.
But that's all I know about that, and as I said, they didn't had degrees, I learnt the basics of this type of farming "by doing", but you must be right for bigger exploitations. Still, if I wanted a job I would go straight there and I would have one, it was to prove my point that the topic wasn't abt having a job, but having $$$/career perspectives. (and wyoming because it's probably one of the most beautiful state isnt it?)

Still waiting for Dr Legend answer, but was kinda obvious he was trolling since the beginning, idk why I went into all this haha
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
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Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

Them cattle ranchers be no better than a parcel o' horse thieves!
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Post by Metis »

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lvcQDaR56xg/Trfc71LwF3I/AAAAAAAAQKs/KKi6Ng03gVU/s1600/corn.jpg[/img]Farming has changed considerably since I was a kid. Once the farmers around here would hire local kids at 14 to help on the farms. I, and all the other boys, took a tractor driver school, which taught us how to operate tractors, combines and grain trucks and then we went to work over the summers.

However, this was in the days when a tractor cost $25,000, not a half a million. It was also in the days when the world had 2 billion people, not seven and a quarter billion. Farms now must produce much more than they did in the past per acre. At the same time, fewer and fewer are farming. Therefore, the remaining farms are getting both larger and more technical. Most of the local farmers around here use GPS controlled machinery with computer mapping of yield per acre. When it comes time for planting and fertilizing those maps are used to precisely apply only the fertilizer needed. Crop residue gets sent to a cellulosic ethanol plant.

To top this off, the decline in railways and increase in transportation cost has done away with the old 24,000 GVW grain truck. Now the trucks are all semis, and require a CDL to drive. The CDL requirement alone precludes most boys from working on farms unless they are just the farmer's kids helping out.

There is still money in farming but it's hard work. My next door neighbor farms several sections and also has a feed lot with a thousand or more cattle. He does all right financially but he also is out with the cattle starting at 6 AM every day and doesn't come in until well past dark. What are his two sons doing? Not farming. One is a dentist and the other works at a ski resort.
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Post by Mr. Pecksniff »

metis wrote:[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lvcQDaR56xg/Trfc71LwF3I/AAAAAAAAQKs/KKi6Ng03gVU/s1600/corn.jpg" style="max-width:100%'" alt=""]Farming has changed considerably since I was a kid. Once the farmers around here would hire local kids at 14 to help on the farms. I, and all the other boys, took a tractor driver school, which taught us how to operate tractors, combines and grain trucks and then we went to work over the summers.

However, this was in the days when a tractor cost $25,000, not a half a million. It was also in the days when the world had 2 billion people, not seven and a quarter billion. Farms now must produce much more than they did in the past per acre. At the same time, fewer and fewer are farming. Therefore, the remaining farms are getting both larger and more technical. Most of the local farmers around here use GPS controlled machinery with computer mapping of yield per acre. When it comes time for planting and fertilizing those maps are used to precisely apply only the fertilizer needed. Crop residue gets sent to a cellulosic ethanol plant.

To top this off, the decline in railways and increase in transportation cost has done away with the old 24,000 GVW grain truck. Now the trucks are all semis, and require a CDL to drive. The CDL requirement alone precludes most boys from working on farms unless they are just the farmer''s kids helping out.

There is still money in farming but it''s hard work. My next door neighbor farms several sections and also has a feed lot with a thousand or more cattle. He does all right financially but he also is out with the cattle starting at 6 AM every day and doesn''t come in until well past dark. What are his two sons doing? Not farming. One is a dentist and the other works at a ski resort.

But metis, dragon said the world is full of lucrative jobs that don''t require any skills or qualifications. Was he just lying?

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