WHO JUST FUCKING HATES MATHS???

[benj89]

gibson I think you are confusing maths classes in a community college and maths classes in a competitive school. The former will only ask you to memorize and regurgitate, the latter truly understanding the theorem (including its demonstration) and thinking outside the box.

[Jaeger]

gibson I think you are confusing maths classes in a community college and maths classes in a competitive school. The former will only ask you to memorize and regurgitate, the latter truly understanding the theorem (including its demonstration) and thinking outside the box.

Calc 3/Differential equations is the last bullshit stop even for the worse schools. Once you start linear algebra you might get a couple proof questions on a test, and by analysis+ it's all proofs and "thinking outside the box"

I think I watched one or two videos of MIT lectures on calculus and it seemed pretty much the same as anywhere, but maybe the tests are harder idk

[gibson]

gibson I think you are confusing maths classes in a community college and maths classes in a competitive school. The former will only ask you to memorize and regurgitate, the latter truly understanding the theorem (including its demonstration) and thinking outside the box.

This is not only not true, but actually in many cases the opposite of the truth. In my calculus one class there were 8 or 10 students from the local university(University of Tennessee). They came specifically because they wanted a small class(my class had 36) where they would actually be able to ask questions of and by talk by a professor rather than a TA. It's a myth that community college offers inferior education than a standard University. University professors are often there to do research, and teach one class because its a requirement. They don't give a shit, and the class is just run by some undergrad who needs some extra beer money. My father used to be a professor at the University of Tennessee, and he said the pressure to do research is enormous. The pressure to teach well is non existent. Having sat in on a calculus lecture, I'm very glad that I was not taking it in massive lecture hall with 200 other kids being taught by some 25 year old who can't teach to save his life. Fact is 36 student class taught by a professor>>>>>>>200 student class taught by a TA. It's not til you get to the more advanced math that isn't even offered at community college that you'll actually see a professor.

[gibson]

Could it be you expect too much from people? 1 + 1 = 2 that's where you start, how else is x² - 5 = -6 going to make sense? You may have learned more quickly than most, but there isn't enough teaching manpower to give you the attention you apparently deserved. Not all students are as gifted as that, and as a society we need to make sure everyone keeps up with our primary education curriculum. Higher education is a different environment, you'll be challenged there.

There are certainly problems in math curriculum and the way that things are taught in general, but you can't expect it to be perfect and catered to your own needs. We do in the NL have 3 tiers in high school, I think that helps but it has issues of its own. Perhaps you were just in the wrong school or in the wrong part of the world, but in any case to call school in general a waste of time seems over the top. However inefficiently, you are learning a lot there.

The major issue I see going on in primary education atm is the score-driven teaching, it's understandable but destructive. Test scores are a cheap way to measure schools' and students' performance but the tests are garbage. In the end they decide the curriculum and they would look very different if it were up to me.

And the question still remains, if 1st graders have the mental ability to learn calculus, why is it that most people graduate from highschool without even getting that far?

[benj89]

who said university of Tennessee was a competitive school?
take math classes at georgia tech, carnegie, harvey mudd, williams and plenty other competitive school, i doubt you get an A by being on your phone in class, even in calculus I-II (let alone mit caltech princeton stanford chicago etc).

[Goodspeed]

Could it be you expect too much from people? 1 + 1 = 2 that's where you start, how else is x² - 5 = -6 going to make sense? You may have learned more quickly than most, but there isn't enough teaching manpower to give you the attention you apparently deserved. Not all students are as gifted as that, and as a society we need to make sure everyone keeps up with our primary education curriculum. Higher education is a different environment, you'll be challenged there.

There are certainly problems in math curriculum and the way that things are taught in general, but you can't expect it to be perfect and catered to your own needs. We do in the NL have 3 tiers in high school, I think that helps but it has issues of its own. Perhaps you were just in the wrong school or in the wrong part of the world, but in any case to call school in general a waste of time seems over the top. However inefficiently, you are learning a lot there.

The major issue I see going on in primary education atm is the score-driven teaching, it's understandable but destructive. Test scores are a cheap way to measure schools' and students' performance but the tests are garbage. In the end they decide the curriculum and they would look very different if it were up to me.

And the question still remains, if 1st graders have the mental ability to learn calculus, why is it that most people graduate from highschool without even getting that far?

I don't see how that question remains. Its premise is ridiculous, of course 1st graders can't learn calculus they are missing a ton of basics. Again, maybe you could have with a private teacher and more than 2 or 3 hours of math classes each week, but most kids need repetition and lots of it before they understand something especially in the case of math.

[zoom]

Could it be you expect too much from people? 1 + 1 = 2 that's where you start, how else is x² - 5 = -6 going to make sense? ...

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE!!

[gibson]

who said university of Tennessee was a competitive school?
take math classes at georgia tech, carnegie, harvey mudd, williams and plenty other competitive school, i doubt you get an A by being on your phone in class, even in calculus I-II (let alone mit caltech princeton stanford chicago etc).

I mean competitive is completely relative, but my most people standards UT is competitive..... Only accepting 4.0s combined with a high act score generally..... And no, math classes like calc 1 and calc 2 aren't gonna be any different. The calculus book they use at Georgia Tech is the exact same one my friend used in highschool, and on the inside is practically identical to the one I used. You're a fool if you think that a basic math class like that is gonna be any different anywhere. Maybe at the ivy league level, but that's only relevant to well connected try hards and smart minorities.

[gibson]

Could it be you expect too much from people? 1 + 1 = 2 that's where you start, how else is x² - 5 = -6 going to make sense? You may have learned more quickly than most, but there isn't enough teaching manpower to give you the attention you apparently deserved. Not all students are as gifted as that, and as a society we need to make sure everyone keeps up with our primary education curriculum. Higher education is a different environment, you'll be challenged there.

There are certainly problems in math curriculum and the way that things are taught in general, but you can't expect it to be perfect and catered to your own needs. We do in the NL have 3 tiers in high school, I think that helps but it has issues of its own. Perhaps you were just in the wrong school or in the wrong part of the world, but in any case to call school in general a waste of time seems over the top. However inefficiently, you are learning a lot there.

The major issue I see going on in primary education atm is the score-driven teaching, it's understandable but destructive. Test scores are a cheap way to measure schools' and students' performance but the tests are garbage. In the end they decide the curriculum and they would look very different if it were up to me.

And the question still remains, if 1st graders have the mental ability to learn calculus, why is it that most people graduate from highschool without even getting that far?

I don't see how that question remains. Its premise is ridiculous, of course 1st graders can't learn calculus they are missing a ton of basics. Again, maybe you could have with a private teacher and more than 2 or 3 hours of math classes each week, but most kids need repetition and lots of it before they understand something especially in the case of math.

Well i didn't literally mean teach calculus to first graders, but I think the fact that 1st graders can learn something that level demonstrates that humans have a much greater potential than is currently being unlocked in school and aren't being pushed at all.

[benj89]

who said university of Tennessee was a competitive school?
take math classes at georgia tech, carnegie, harvey mudd, williams and plenty other competitive school, i doubt you get an A by being on your phone in class, even in calculus I-II (let alone mit caltech princeton stanford chicago etc).

I mean competitive is completely relative, but my most people standards UT is competitive..... Only accepting 4.0s combined with a high act score generally..... And no, math classes like calc 1 and calc 2 aren't gonna be any different. The calculus book they use at Georgia Tech is the exact same one my friend used in highschool, and on the inside is practically identical to the one I used. You're a fool if you think that a basic math class like that is gonna be any different anywhere. Maybe at the ivy league level, but that's only relevant to well connected try hards and smart minorities.

Competitive tend to mean top 5-10 regionals, top 35-40 national, top 45-50 LAC, and that's the broad definition, most people would rank unis by target/semi-target and the ranking is much more restrictive. University of Tennesse is far from those. About the admission requirements, if they were only accepting 4.0s high ACTs they wouldn't have that ranking :p

The ivy level: you know that most top15 LAC are more selective than cornell, and most schools I mentioned (especially mit stanford, caltech, chicago, Berkeley, harvey, CMU, , Williams etc) are more selective for any math related major than most ivys?

The book it depends, lots of top schools/teachers will have their own books but ofc the material will more or less be the same, it's the exams that will be different. It's the same everywhere including france, math major in hs have the same 2-3 books in the country, but the difficulty of exams varies by a lot if you are in a top parisian hs and a regional one in the middle of nowhere.
And I'm saying math major but it applies to any major, we could say the same about English or philosophy

and I mentionned GT because: they are solid in engineering, and they have some weird gpa policies since graduating with honors starts at 3.15 lol. Few years ago in the plane I met a 3.6 CS major from there, he got in mit/stanford phd programs

[gibson]

who said university of Tennessee was a competitive school?
take math classes at georgia tech, carnegie, harvey mudd, williams and plenty other competitive school, i doubt you get an A by being on your phone in class, even in calculus I-II (let alone mit caltech princeton stanford chicago etc).

I mean competitive is completely relative, but my most people standards UT is competitive..... Only accepting 4.0s combined with a high act score generally..... And no, math classes like calc 1 and calc 2 aren't gonna be any different. The calculus book they use at Georgia Tech is the exact same one my friend used in highschool, and on the inside is practically identical to the one I used. You're a fool if you think that a basic math class like that is gonna be any different anywhere. Maybe at the ivy league level, but that's only relevant to well connected try hards and smart minorities.

Competitive tend to mean top 5-10 regionals, top 35-40 national, top 45-50 LAC, and that's the broad definition, most people would rank unis by target/semi-target and the ranking is much more restrictive. University of Tennesse is far from those. About the admission requirements, if they were only accepting 4.0s high ACTs they wouldn't have that ranking :p

The ivy level: you know that most top15 LAC are more selective than cornell, and most schools I mentioned (especially mit stanford, caltech, chicago, Berkeley, harvey, CMU, , Williams etc) are more selective for any math related major than most ivys?

The book it depends, lots of top schools/teachers will have their own books but ofc the material will more or less be the same, it's the exams that will be different. It's the same everywhere including france, math major in hs have the same 2-3 books in the country, but the difficulty of exams varies by a lot if you are in a top parisian hs and a regional one in the middle of nowhere.
And I'm saying math major but it applies to any major, we could say the same about English or philosophy

and I mentionned GT because: they are solid in engineering, and they have some weird gpa policies since graduating with honors starts at 3.15 lol. Few years ago in the plane I met a 3.6 CS major from there, he got in mit/stanford phd programs

UTs engineering program is top 15 in the region and top 60 in the nation, so it's not like it's all that far out from your definition of competitive. Also, my father has a PhD from the University of Michigan( a competitive school in every sense of the word) recommended I go to community college for a year or two for the reasons Ive already said, basically so I could be in a small class with a professor, rather than a lecture hall with a TA. For basic courses there really isn't a big difference where ever you go. English 1010 is English 1010 at Cornell, at UT, and at pellisippi

[benj89]

UTs engineering program is top 15 in the region and top 60 in the nation, so it's not like it's all that far out from your definition of competitive. Also, my father has a PhD from the University of Michigan( a competitive school in every sense of the word) recommended I go to community college for a year or two for the reasons Ive already said, basically so I could be in a small class with a professor, rather than a lecture hall with a TA. For basic courses there really isn't a big difference where ever you go. English 1010 is English 1010 at Cornell, at UT, and at pellisippi

You could have that small class in a LAC or regional college without TAs and better teachers. And hey if it's just about small class there are only 5K students at Princeton: small classes and teachers are very focused on undergrads .
Realistically the difference is that you aren't surrounded by motivated students in a cc, and teachers aren't really involved from what I know (i.e no office hours). Do you feel challenged in class right now? I believe that's one of the point of education, challenging yourself and I doubt you are.
I told you already there are no big differences, but the exams aren't going to be the same, and you won't pass class with a good grades in competitive schools being on your phone unless you work a lot at home. So you generalizing that basic maths classes are easy A everywhere in the US is wrong, and I just wanted to correct that.
However I know it's a solid option especially in california where UCs take tons of kids from CCs and it's relatively easy to transfer to Usc/ucla/berkeley with a 3.8 from one of the few target CCs. Same applies to most state, in new york few CCs have a program with Cornell and as long as you get 3.7-8 you have high chances of transferring. In virginia if you get in the right CCs you got priority transfer to lots of great schools: uva, virginia tech, washington and lee, william and mary, richmond.
Considering the amount of $ you save during those 2 years, that's pretty cool

[gibson]

@benji89

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well the motivated student thing is definitly true. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but at least at my school every full time professor is required to have office hours at least 3 times I week. Yea there are smaller schools that you might get a professor with a small class, but most state schools are going to be larger. Actually in Tennessee now as long as you maintain a 2.0 GPS and do 8 hours of community service a semester, you get five free semesters of community college. Something surprising nice from our Republican governor. But the point that I was trying to make is that basic classes are basic for a reason, and they're generally not hard unless a teacher takes it upon him or herself to make it hard..... I've had some friends who had a music appreciation teacher who had some sort of stick up her ass and every semester half her class failed fucking music appreciation.....

[gibson]

Also I think it stems in one of the issues Goodspeed was talking about, in that the goal of almost every student is not to learn, but to make a passing grade.

[deleted_user0]

thats the problem at the root of our culture.

[r4go]

I love maths, it let me know how many time @Kaiserklein

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told me j love u bea

[Goodspeed]

Could it be you expect too much from people? 1 + 1 = 2 that's where you start, how else is x² - 5 = -6 going to make sense? ...

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE!!

Nice I knew I could count on you

[Goodspeed]

Show hidden quotes

Could it be you expect too much from people? 1 + 1 = 2 that's where you start, how else is x² - 5 = -6 going to make sense? You may have learned more quickly than most, but there isn't enough teaching manpower to give you the attention you apparently deserved. Not all students are as gifted as that, and as a society we need to make sure everyone keeps up with our primary education curriculum. Higher education is a different environment, you'll be challenged there.

There are certainly problems in math curriculum and the way that things are taught in general, but you can't expect it to be perfect and catered to your own needs. We do in the NL have 3 tiers in high school, I think that helps but it has issues of its own. Perhaps you were just in the wrong school or in the wrong part of the world, but in any case to call school in general a waste of time seems over the top. However inefficiently, you are learning a lot there.

The major issue I see going on in primary education atm is the score-driven teaching, it's understandable but destructive. Test scores are a cheap way to measure schools' and students' performance but the tests are garbage. In the end they decide the curriculum and they would look very different if it were up to me.

And the question still remains, if 1st graders have the mental ability to learn calculus, why is it that most people graduate from highschool without even getting that far?

I don't see how that question remains. Its premise is ridiculous, of course 1st graders can't learn calculus they are missing a ton of basics. Again, maybe you could have with a private teacher and more than 2 or 3 hours of math classes each week, but most kids need repetition and lots of it before they understand something especially in the case of math.

Well i didn't literally mean teach calculus to first graders, but I think the fact that 1st graders can learn something that level demonstrates that humans have a much greater potential than is currently being unlocked in school and aren't being pushed at all.

Well it's not an easy thing to fix, there's a ton of people crammed into a class who differ greatly in level, even per subject, and putting the slower kids in the same classes has its own downsides. If the math teacher spent less time on everything, he would lose a bunch of kids for good.
As mentioned there is plenty to improve in the curriculum, and we would do great with smaller classes but currently the resources to make that happen just aren't there. No one is saying school as it is right now is perfect, but you called it useless which is another discussion altogether. You were a quick student, I would imagine a lot of people here were, but you're part of a minority.

[gibson]

Yea ofc its not an easy thing to fix or even possible and when I called it useless was an overstatement, but I think that the amount of time dedicated to it is ridiculous for what is learned

[Goodspeed]

My solution was not showing up. At the end of the day though it's primary education and if you're ahead of the rest you'll have to wait for them, you'll be challenged in secondary education where you also have the opportunity to take only the classes that interest you. I take it you're in uni now?

[gibson]

My solution was not showing up. At the end of the day though it's primary education and if you're ahead of the rest you'll have to wait for them, you'll be challenged in secondary education where you also have the opportunity to take only the classes that interest you. I take it you're in uni now?

yep working on a bullshit degree so I won't be stuck making 9$ an hour the rest of my life.......

[Goodspeed]

Land of opportunity

I left the degrees for what they were and went to work, found that if you show potential there is a lot of room to move up without a degree. But I probably got lucky.

[Kaiserklein]

I love maths, it let me know how many time @Kaiserklein

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told me j love u bea

This number is too high to be calculated though <3

[momuuu]

I honestly always kinda thought maths was not supposed to be that much fun. A big part of what they want to teach you is simply how to solve some basic shit. Its the hammer you use to hit the nails. Not too much more than that. Thats at least what ally advanced mathematics has been like.

[Dsy]

Its the maths decision who does it likes or doesnt...