Alcohol needs to be banned

[Goodspeed]

@iNcog

notification

from the other thread

As I hope you're aware by now I am not arguing for gun control based solely on the fact that guns are potentially lethal. There are a number of relevant differences between drugs (incl alcohol) and firearms when considering banning them from people's homes and public spaces, even if both are potentially lethal. All of them I've mentioned before but I guess it can't hurt to repeat. Note I'm disregarding the use of guns in a shooting range because I take no issue with it.

1. Recreational drugs serve a purpose that is actually good for people: they help relax, loosen up, improve one's mood, etc depending on the drug. In the case of alcohol specifically, it tastes good. Drugs are used for this purpose on an almost daily basis by an overwhelming majority of humans. Firearms also serve such a purpose in hunting although imo even that is a questionable activity, but nothing beyond that. Only a very small minority of gun owners uses their weapon for hunting.
2. Building on the previous point, the average rate at which firearms kill people on a per-use basis is much higher than that of drugs.
3. Drugs are not made to kill things. Their destructive effects are side effects, not the intended effect. Firearms on the other hand are weapons specifically designed for destruction.
4. From that it follows that drugs, in the vast majority of cases, kill by accident. Firearms kill by design.
5. Firearms are much more destructive in the wrong hands.

For this thread specifically I would add that banning alcohol has been tried before and failed miserably, so let's not.
Boardwalk Empire is set in that era. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0979432/

[hunter]

But do you realize that considering 195k as a standalone figure might seem high, but considering that there are 650 million adults in europe (2013) and since europe is the highest alcohol consuming continent (it's not possible to know exact number of people who drink) but majority of them consume alcohol. Its barely 0.1 % or the uppermost limit of 1% considering excluding people who don't drink. It's still quite a low number. You can't ban it just because 1% of the population suffers from it. I am sure equal number of people die by getting shock from current so ban electricity? People die in car accidents, ban cars? Plane crash, Ban plane?

[iNcog]

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[hunter]

But do you realize that considering 195k as a standalone figure might seem high, but considering that there are 650 million adults in europe (2013) and since europe is the highest alcohol consuming continent (it's not possible to know exact number of people who drink) but majority of them consume alcohol. Its barely 0.1 % or the uppermost limit of 1% considering excluding people who don't drink. It's still quite a low number. You can't ban it just because 1% of the population suffers from it. I am sure equal number of people die by getting shock from current so ban electricity? People die in car accidents, ban cars? Plane crash, Ban plane?

Nice of you to downplay the issue:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/25 ... 04928.html?

You're entirely right, this is not an issue at all. Let's also allow people to do heroine, OK?

Its easy to say that the person committed suicide by drinking alcohol, but have those researchers actually tried to know the actual cause of suicide? There may be so many issues in his/her life which may make them feel suicidal, however most of the time there are lot of factors which prevent people from doing such as fear of pain, worry about the family etc, excess alcohol just helps you become free from all these worries which makes it easier for that person to commit suicide, you see alcohol acts as a MEDIUM to ease suicide for that person, but it's NOT the CAUSE of suicide. No one just drinks and says ok I am going to give up my life, there are always underlying factors for that. If you want to tackle suicide you should tackle the real causes shutting off medium is short term, people will always find work around. You are right if that moment that person doesn't drink he might not commit suicide at the point but if his problems in life continue there will be a point when he loses patience and gives up his life, the chance of person committing suicide same without alcohol as the chance of person who is drunk.

Do you agree that medicines for good us? I mean they cure us and all right? But do you know even if you take a normal antibiotic which kills fever in excess it can kill you? You see alcohol itself is not the cause of problems, it's the excess that causes problems just like it is with everything.

Besides, we are live in a democratic world. Majority will always win, as long as majority of population remains in favor of alcohol its not going to get banned. Needs of many simply outweighs the troubles of few and in this case its 99% vs 1%

[deleted_user0]

But do you realize that considering 195k as a standalone figure might seem high, but considering that there are 650 million adults in europe (2013) and since europe is the highest alcohol consuming continent (it's not possible to know exact number of people who drink) but majority of them consume alcohol. Its barely 0.1 % or the uppermost limit of 1% considering excluding people who don't drink. It's still quite a low number. You can't ban it just because 1% of the population suffers from it. I am sure equal number of people die by getting shock from current so ban electricity? People die in car accidents, ban cars? Plane crash, Ban plane?

Nice of you to downplay the issue:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/25 ... 04928.html?

You're entirely right, this is not an issue at all. Let's also allow people to do heroine, OK?

im shocked you dont think thats a good idea, as a liberal and all...

[momuuu]

I think people will use drugs regardless. An alcohol ban apperantly increased the usage of other narcotics (refer to one of iwillspankyou's posts). If you'd have to have one drug be legal, then alcohol is the candidate.

Yes it's not healthy, but drugs never are. Alcohol is relatively save, and more importantly: its really hard to get addicted. Once you are addicted alcohol is a bitch yes, but it actually takes serious effort to get addicted and even then theres levels of addiction that aren't even that damaging (having 3 consumptions per day doesnt actually limit your functioning in life by much at all). Compare this to herione or coke and the choice seems easy. Only weed is comparable it seems, but to me it doesnt really seem to have many of alcohol's benefits.

I mean, yes alcohol has bad sides and driving under influence or alcohol in combination with retardation can kill. On the other hand, alcohol also has positive effects. If I go out to some pub I dont ever feel like alcohol is a bad thing. Many people drink together and have a good time together in a very social way.

That also makes me wonder about the economical structure of an alcoholban. The nightlife in many cities would die completely. Thats hundreds of pubs in my small city alone. Itd probably result in economical damage worth billions. Unfortunately human lifes arent worth that much in our society, and maybe the overall effect on deaths wouldnt even be positive (economical damage does affect that unfortunately).

So overall an alcoholban doesnt seem viable.. Which hasnt been refuted well by incog at all. "Just be stricter about it" seems like a shitty argument. The weed usage in countries were weed is prohibited hardly differs from that of the Netherlands for example, which indicates that such a ban just cant work atm.

[deleted_user0]

Without alcohol 50% of this forum users wouldn't even exist.

[Dolan]

That also makes me wonder about the economical structure of an alcoholban. The nightlife in many cities would die completely. Thats hundreds of pubs in my small city alone

Why can't people just go out for a glass of water?
They would save so many resources wasted on producing alcohol and create so many jobs for those who produce bottled water.

[iNcog]

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[momuuu]

So you admit that an alcohol gun comparison is a poor one?

[iNcog]

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[deleted_user0]

the arguments are quite similar, but guns are still more lethal and dangerous, which in this case is something you can't simply ignore. also, you can apply the argument to pretty much anything, as hunter already pointed out, which will end up creating a big brother type society where the paternalist government decides everything for you. or we get robots to look out for us, and we get this iRobot scenario.

[momuuu]

lol of course not

they're too similar; only differences you could ever find are such minute details that they don't end up mattering

Then Id like to see the equivalent of my counterargument when it comes to guns.

[Mvp618]

An alligator has recently killed a child. The only possible solution to this situation would be to kill all alligators. Anything that is potentially dangerous must be eliminated!

[deleted_user]

That story is heartbreaking.

[Dolan]

YEah, well, I blame the parents. What was that kid doing so close to the water?

[deleted_user0]

lol of course not

they're too similar; only differences you could ever find are such minute details that they don't end up mattering

Then Id like to see the equivalent of my counterargument when it comes to guns.

What is your argument against guns? And if its so good why arent guns banned yet? Oh ye i know, because gun defenders are fanatics that cant be reasoned with, kinda like alcohol defenders, giving only emotional and irrelevant arguments for the greatest poison in western society for 2 milennia...

[iNcog]

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[momuuu]

I feel insulted by you saying I have slippery slope arguments when you dont even respond to 90% of my arguments or point out the slippery slope :/

My ranking:

1. Normal people
2. Incog. Too liberal and too little commie but studied physics so he's kinda okay
3. Liberals and rednecks

[momuuu]

Wait I read the thread you didnt even respond to my posts except for this page. Screw u incog I'm moving you in the liberals and rednecks category.

[iNcog]

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[momuuu]

Yeah which if why you are pretty close to that tier 3 incog

[iNcog]

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[momuuu]

The court has decided you'll keep your honorable second spot just below the normal people.

I still wanna see the progun equivalent of my proalcohol post though, because I do not believe that it'd be a sensible post. While a gun ban is also unfortunate to the gun fanatics, which generally are just born as rednecks but not bad people, I think the benefits outweigh that. Thats the consideration precisely: do the benefits of a ban outweigh the cons of one.

Random note: How would an alcoholban even work properly? Its really easy to make wine yourself haha. Ive literally done that before. Put grape juice, add sugar, make airlocked so that anaerobic processing of sugar happens -> profit

[iNcog]

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