Place open for new posts — threads with fresh content will be moved to either Real-life Discussion or ESOC Talk sub-forums, where you can create new topics.
_venox_ wrote:Do you even logic? Wikipedia, mental disorder: A mental disorder (...) is a diagnosis, most often by a psychiatrist, of a behavioral or mental pattern that may cause suffering or a poor ability to function in life. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, it's most certainly not a mental disorder.
Function in life? Its almost like our function is to survive and pass on out genes. Homosexuals cannot do that however. Call it what you want, but its a mental disorder.
Mvp618 wrote:Obviously anyone who is attracted to the same sex or wants to be changed into a different sex has an issue with their brain.
What do you mean "issue" ?
Of course everyone's brain functions differently or we'd all be exactly identical people. It's an "issue" why?
Issue as in it takes away from their ability to pass on their DNA. Clearly its an abnormality, which is why it occurs in a relatively small percent of the population.
except if it was heriditary, you would have expected it to die out quite soon. but for some reason it hasn't. So it either means that being homosexual doesn't really mean you won't get offspring and pass on genes or for some reason its a very common "disorder" in human beings
To "survive and pass on out genes" is our biological purpose. A function is something different. Homosexuals still are able to have offspring. Another reason why having offspring yourself isn't really the biological purpose is found in society of early humans: Everybody looked out for one another and helped the best to his ability. Some gathered berries, some hunted and some stayed home, cooked, looking out for the smaller children and fire. Even altruism is biologically explainable: If you are have 3 siblings, giving up your life to save theirs is good because 3 * 50% = 150% of your genes survive for you lose your 100%. If you apply this concept to non life threatening situations you can see why it makes sense why an aunt would look out for the children.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
umeu wrote:except if it was heriditary, you would have expected it to die out quite soon. but for some reason it hasn't. So it either means that being homosexual doesn't really mean you won't get offspring and pass on genes or for some reason its a very common "disorder" in human beings
I mean, I never claimed it to be hereditary. There are plenty of disorders that are not hereditary. I don't have an issue with homosexuals, I just call homosexuality what I think it is and that is a mental disorder.
And having to reproduce isn't a must anymore. Humans have evolved a lifestyle through the industrialisation with the use of technology where it's not a must for everybody to reproduce.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
_venox_ wrote:To "survive and pass on out genes" is our biological purpose. A function is something different. Homosexuals still are able to have offspring. Another reason why having offspring yourself isn't really the biological purpose is found in society of early humans: Everybody looked out for one another and helped the best to his ability. Some gathered berries, some hunted and some stayed home, cooked, looking out for the smaller children and fire. Even altruism is biologically explainable: If you are have 3 siblings, giving up your life to save theirs is good because 3 * 50% = 150% of your genes survive for you lose your 100%. If you apply this concept to non life threatening situations you can see why it makes sense why an aunt would look out for the children.
func·tion ˈfəNG(k)SH(ə)n/ noun 1. an activity or purpose natural to or intended for a person or thing.
Basically the same thing. I would go into natural selection, survival of the fittest, and evolution however I think that is all a discussion for another time. Obviously as humans we no longer need to pass on our DNA, but that is the overall idea behind life.
"natural selection, survival of the fittest, and evolution" We long cheated these with advanced medicine and tucktucktuck. We still need to pass on our DNA, but it's not everybody who has to have offspring.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
_venox_ wrote:"natural selection, survival of the fittest, and evolution" We long cheated these with advanced medicine and tucktucktuck. We still need to pass on our DNA, but it's not everybody who has to have offspring.
I just agreed with you, we not longer need to pass on DNA. But as I said it is still our main function, or purpose if you so like, in life to do so. And as far as I am concerned that is still no "advanced medicine" that allows two men to have a child.
I don't think you quite understand what I meant with "not everybody has to have offspring". If homosexual people don't have offspring it doesn't matter. There are others who have. As humans we need to look out that our species won't go extinct, this includes making offspring AND all the other things necessary, like safety, protection, a place to life, food to eat, medication and many more. If you want to survive in this world you have to give something to society which it can benefit from. For example: If a homosexual is a hairdresser, society can benefit from this. And even if society won't benefit from the doings of one homosexual person, does this mean that everybody who doesn't contribute to our survival as a species has an "issue" and thus a mental disorder?
Another argument against your point of view: What about every single person on earth who doesn't have offspring? Do they all also have a mental disorder because they don't contribute to our survival?
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
_venox_ wrote:"natural selection, survival of the fittest, and evolution" We long cheated these with advanced medicine and tucktucktuck. We still need to pass on our DNA, but it's not everybody who has to have offspring.
I just agreed with you, we not longer need to pass on DNA. But as I said it is still our main function, or purpose if you so like, in life to do so. And as far as I am concerned that is still no "advanced medicine" that allows two men to have a child.
Advanced medicine refers to everything that safes lives or improves our quality of life. Just think about all the antibiotics. Before the treatment was invented many people would die off gangrene and the infections it causes.
If you talk about evolution and use arguments from that field you have to understand that you can't look at one individual, you have to look at the whole human species and the societies humans form. In everything in life we have a division of work, same goes for making offspring.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
Not sure where you are trying to go with this. Homosexual hairdressers? Society's benefiting? These things are irrelevant to the discussion. I've said pretty much all I have to say on the matter. Just because individuals do not have to reproduce, from a biological standpoint it is their purpose.
umeu wrote:except if it was heriditary, you would have expected it to die out quite soon. but for some reason it hasn't. So it either means that being homosexual doesn't really mean you won't get offspring and pass on genes or for some reason its a very common "disorder" in human beings
I mean, I never claimed it to be hereditary. There are plenty of disorders that are not hereditary. I don't have an issue with homosexuals, I just call homosexuality what I think it is and that is a mental disorder.
i said neither, and didnt mean to imply that either.
Mvp618 wrote:Not sure where you are trying to go with this. Homosexual hairdressers? Society's benefiting? These things are irrelevant to the discussion. I've said pretty much all I have to say on the matter. Just because individuals do not have to reproduce, from a biological standpoint it is their purpose.
The things I've said are relevant to the discussion. I first argued that not every individual must have offspring, because the survival of the species is what matters. Later I argued that as a species we form societies, and in a society there is a division of work with almost everything, including making offspring. Later I argued that the biological purpose not only contains making offspring, but also being responsible for safety, food, shelter, because these things ultimately contribute to the survival of the species.
My case states that because making offspring isn't the only biological purpose, homosexuals are able to fulfill every other role as well. Therefore, being homosexual doesn't fit the definition of a mental disorder.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
Than you've got infertile people and people who choose not to have children. Humanity as a whole isn't having any problem maintaining its population and if all the people who didn't have kids had them over the course of human existence our planet would be way over populated. Of anything people need to start having less kids.
_venox_ wrote:Do you even logic? Wikipedia, mental disorder: A mental disorder (...) is a diagnosis, most often by a psychiatrist, of a behavioral or mental pattern that may cause suffering or a poor ability to function in life. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, it's most certainly not a mental disorder.
Function in life? Its almost like our function is to survive and pass on out genes. Homosexuals cannot do that however. Call it what you want, but its a mental disorder.
I really wouldn't ever want to be in or take a trip to California ever. It's simply a liberal cesspool. If you're gay then that's fine but I can't stand gay flags and their weird demonstrations to be anywhere near me.
Calling homosexuality a disorder is extreme and probably not wise due to being hurtful, but it's not that much of a stretch. I mean, it's kinda weird and nonstandard. Like if someone has a weird hand or sth, or idk he's albino or whatever you can think of, it is called a disorder. Even autism is. So why not homosexuality?