diarouga wrote:I didnt say that the strategies arent hard to find lol.
What did you mean by "lol they arent?" And also, arent 99% of the mus dicovered already? For example with germany always cav or bow pike semi ff, with spain always ff, with india most of the times 600w 300e or 5 sepoy first, with french mostly musk huss or semi ff, etc.
imo those arent writen in stone yet. I think eventually people come up with eficient BOs that couter the standard play of a civ, then the countered civ has to come up with variations / new bos.. leading to a ever evolving game.
Like who? Anyway, while obviously true, that's irrelevant. Mirrors are still only 14 out of 105 match ups (and you realistically only need to know 5 for this tournament). There's a difference between knowing how to play a civ and knowing how to play the mirror, and these rules are neglecting that. Playing only mirrors is like playing chess without queens and saying "yeah but the game is already strategically deep enough without them so screw it"
calmyourtits wrote:Like who? Anyway, while obviously true, that''s irrelevant. Mirrors are still only 14 out of 105 match ups (and you realistically only need to know 5 for this tournament). There''s a difference between knowing how to play a civ and knowing how to play the mirror, and these rules are neglecting that. Playing only mirrors is like playing chess without queens and saying "yeah but the game is already strategically deep enough without them so screw it"
Most of players who argue against mirrors. Not necessarily you, but lot of people do.
Anyway, lot of MUs do play like mirrors, just they''re not as balanced. Many MUs are not balanced at all so frankly who cares. And even if the game was pretty much balanced then I would still prefer to play 1 favourite civ vs everything rather than plaing many different civs. And for the same reason I would rather watch each player playing 100% his favourite civ.
What fun is playing 1 civ if you're only mirroring? That's an argument f?r match up diversity, or am I misinterpreting something? I remember playing only Jap on FP for a good while. That civ was so interesting there.
I mean each player plays his fav civ vs everything. So that you have variety but also much higher profile games as you expect players to refine their civ much more. That is on a hypotetical balanced patch.
Oh.. Yeah that's not possible with 14 unique civs. SC2 is having a hard time with just 3 #removesentries I'd be playing that theoretical game all day though... cause damn On the other hand, how balanced is it gonna look to us? A theoretically balanced game assumes flawless play from its players which, if you had illusions about us being close, we aren't close. Some things would seem stronger than they are to us because there is no counter found yet.
I guess where I'm going with this is even if we let futuristic intelligent AI balance our games, they will still seem unbalanced to us.
calmyourtits wrote:Oh.. Yeah that''s not possible with 14 unique civs. SC2 is having a hard time with just 3 #removesentries I''d be playing that theoretical game all day though... cause damn On the other hand, how balanced is it gonna look to us? A theoretically balanced game assumes flawless play from its players which, if you had illusions about us being close, we aren''t close. Some things would seem stronger than they are to us because there is no counter found yet.
I guess where I''m going with this is even if we let futuristic intelligent AI balance our games, they will still seem unbalanced to us.
A balanced game is a game that gives on theory reasonable ways to win on every circumstances with one civ. It hasn''t to be perfect, nor players have to play perfect. It has to be balanced enough so that there are not black and white situations at a certain level of play.
Anyway the point is. Would I rather watch high profile mirror games or not so high profile non mirror games? I would opt the first option.
calmyourtits wrote:Oh.. Yeah thats not possible with 14 unique civs. SC2 is having a hard time with just 3 #removesentries Id be playing that theoretical game all day though... cause damn On the other hand, how balanced is it gonna look to us? A theoretically balanced game assumes flawless play from its players which, if you had illusions about us being close, we arent close. Some things would seem stronger than they are to us because there is no counter found yet.
I guess where Im going with this is even if we let futuristic intelligent AI balance our games, they will still seem unbalanced to us.
A balanced game is a game that gives on theory reasonable ways to win on every circumstances with one civ. It hasnt to be perfect, nor players have to play perfect. It has to be balanced enough so that there are not black and white situations at a certain level of play.
Anyway the point is. Would I rather watch high profile mirror games or not so high profile non mirror games? I would opt the first option.
garja wrote:A balanced game is a game that gives on theory reasonable ways to win on every circumstances with one civ. It hasnt to be perfect, nor players have to play perfect. It has to be balanced enough so that there are not black and white situations at a certain level of play.
Anyway the point is. Would I rather watch high profile mirror games or not so high profile non mirror games? I would opt the first option.
But the level of play is always improving.
Not necessarily. And anyway, if something unwinnable emerges you patch it again. Thats how patches work actually. You let players work their way to figure out ways to win till the point something is just too strong/too weak given a certain level of play.
calmyourtits wrote:But the level of play is always improving.
Not necessarily. And anyway, if something unwinnable emerges you patch it again. Thats how patches work actually. You let players work their way to figure out ways to win till the point something is just too strong/too weak given a certain level of play.
Yup, which means a complex RTS like AoE can never be balanced for good. New patches will always be needed.. Impressive how brood war did seem to pull this off, and at a much more competitive level as well.
I agree that this would probably happen in a 100% balanced patch, but tbh, i preffer to watch a diversified final like H20 vs BS was, then 9 games of "india vs brit" (exemple...)
garja wrote:Not necessarily. And anyway, if something unwinnable emerges you patch it again. Thats how patches work actually. You let players work their way to figure out ways to win till the point something is just too strong/too weak given a certain level of play.
Yup, which means a complex RTS like AoE can never be balanced for good. New patches will always be needed.. Impressive how brood war did seem to pull this off, and at a much more competitive level as well.
But thats the same for any game really. And as long as broken stuff doesnt emerge too frequently it is doable. Also I dont think AOE3 is even that far to be balanced for practical purpose. So its not to exclude that at some point players will be overall happy about the state of the game.
calmyourtits wrote:Yup, which means a complex RTS like AoE can never be balanced for good. New patches will always be needed.. Impressive how brood war did seem to pull this off, and at a much more competitive level as well.
But thats the same for any game really. And as long as broken stuff doesnt emerge too frequently it is doable. Also I dont think AOE3 is even that far to be balanced for practical purpose. So its not to exclude that at some point players will be overall happy about the state of the game.
Except AoE is 10 times more diverse than basically any other RTS, 14 unique civs is unheard of plus the whole HC system. I dont think such a patch exists for this game.
Actually I find mirrors to be pretty exciting, and they're a lot more complicated than people think, but unfortunately casters miss a lot of the small details that add up in mirrors =/
mitoe wrote:Actually I find mirrors to be pretty exciting, and they''re a lot more complicated than people think, but unfortunately casters miss a lot of the small details that add up in mirrors =/
Whats exciting about spming uhlams at each other... Saah mitoe, go eat your b-day cake!
