This Year's Autumn Tournament Will Use EP ELO

[zoom]

You guys are also conveniently ignoring the fact that many top players play 90% unrated games. It's just dumb to base seeding on recent activity when we already have 8 years of elo on a patch that's 10 times as active.

Do you understand that the intent of EP ELO is to promote playing rated EP games, though?

[deleted_user]

sidebar

[momuuu]

It's almost like if players want a higher seed they should play more rated games because they know exactly how all seeds will be determined. Whoooaaaa what a concepptttt.

No one is fooling anyone -- the tournament admins aren't coming out and saying the EP Elo of today is the correct, objective measure of skill. But if no games are played between now and brackets, that is the seeding they will use. They told everyone exactly how the seeding will work, and it's simple, and everyone is given a month and a half to fit in a workable amount of games. If a player wants to change his or her seed they will play more AoE.

It's not perfect, but no method is, and it does remove all the arbitrariness of past seeding. All the marbles are on the table -- players know exactly what to do. This should not be about "well old, inactive player ____ isn't the seed I think they should be" and instead be "I don't think my current Elo is a fair representation of my relative skill, I will play more rated matches to improve my own seed."

The possibility of abuse just shows how right now and probably for a long time the EP ELO is straight up a bad seeding system. Its at least worse than just using a combination of all RE and EP games, and its worth pointing this out.

Its extremely naive - and bordering stupid - to truly think this announcement will stimulate people truly playing ep rated. As I pointed out, its a far better strategy to tactically nitpick opponents that are overrated due to flaws of the current system. If people actually decide to play rated games because of this, I dont see why they dont take it a step further and nitpick their rated games. After all, if the seeding is the only reason to play ranked, you might aswell just do it right. In other words, theres almost no chance for someone like BSOP to climb. And tbh I seriously doubt this will be much of an incentive to anybody, it will simply result in a bad seed I fear. And even as incentive, it actually is incentive to actively game the system, which as shown by musketeer925 is actually possible. Find the lowbobs hovering at 1600 elo and beat them for 5 games, then repeat. Might be better off with the community just playing unrated games together.

[momuuu]

You guys are also conveniently ignoring the fact that many top players play 90% unrated games. It's just dumb to base seeding on recent activity when we already have 8 years of elo on a patch that's 10 times as active.

Id argue jp elo struggles with deflation. Right now 2400 elo would be very high but many players used to get to 2500+ and that, combined with inactivity, is actually distorting ranks a lot. I think the fresh esoc RE ELO is actually the most accurate system right now.

[Aykin Haraka]

I am 6th ? you mean jp elo 1v1?
well idk I lose more than I win atm
btw I am more near to 68% 1v1 winrate ep and I was at 70% some weeks ago

(if you were talking about me ofc )

only cause you haven't played me much, Ill get u to 50% real quick.

50!!?
you mean 35% max, no?

[gibson]

You guys are also conveniently ignoring the fact that many top players play 90% unrated games. It's just dumb to base seeding on recent activity when we already have 8 years of elo on a patch that's 10 times as active.

Id argue jp elo struggles with deflation. Right now 2400 elo would be very high but many players used to get to 2500+ and that, combined with inactivity, is actually distorting ranks a lot. I think the fresh esoc RE ELO is actually the most accurate system right now.

It certainly does with the ever decreasing player base. Still more accurate than ep elo

[Cometk]

@momuuu you should take another look at the esoc RE elo because it’s not true at all that that seeding is better than what we presently have for the esoc EP elo

[Garja]

How is JP elo more accurate than EP elo. Let's discuss that.

[Aykin Haraka]

what if there are less than 36 players :/

[gibson]

How is JP elo more accurate than EP elo. Let's discuss that.

cuase it has hundreds of times more data

[Aykin Haraka]

( why your pseudo is a fkin guitar brand man )

[Papist]

You guys are also conveniently ignoring the fact that many top players play 90% unrated games.

Well unrated games don't apply to RE ELO either so idk what point you're trying to make with this. Also, the entire point of unrated games are that they don't affect your rank, so why would they affect your seeding in a tournament?

It's just dumb to base seeding on recent activity when we already have 8 years of elo on a patch that's 10 times as active.

This is an EP tournament. It makes no sense to seed people in an EP tournament using RE stats.

Not sure about that. I really want older, inactive pro's to join, and if they have to bash 5 noobs before they can seriously play in a tournament, that might be a reason not to join. For people like Blackstar, Samwise, Veni etc I would like them to join even if that means they have to get a manual seed.

If a playing a few extra games is going to prevent them from joining, they probably didn't want to play that badly to begin with. Giving special treatment is disrespectful to people who have been actively playing and improving, and will create entitlement.

[Garja]

How is JP elo more accurate than EP elo. Let's discuss that.

cuase it has hundreds of times more data

Which is outdated and flawed.

[gibson]

How is JP elo more accurate than EP elo. Let's discuss that.

cuase it has hundreds of times more data

Which is outdated and flawed.

explain

[tabben]

If only people were putting the same effort into discussing how to minimize lag in tourney games..

[Garja]

Already did in previous posts. Basically it's a jam of rating of different eras.

[Cometk]

a "/////" denotes the end of the top 16

[spoiler=JP Active 1v1 ELO]DrHouse_MD (_H2O)
william0717
Lane11
Donald_Trump33
kynesie
SomppuKunkku
Hazza54321
Tit
Kaiserklein
Hokedog
volkersp
jamescheif100
shmras
Klausarena04
Mephi_
iamturk
/////
Hellgate95
IAmSoldieR
_Riot (Garja, also 456)
CHATIMENTS
Zidanedu37
rulettaja123
Markus_Heining (Lukas_L99)
pepito57
nagayumi
MonsterDog
lain_world
Þiทઝ_ℱℓαʍiทgѳ (Mongobillione, sebnan12)
GiBthedurrty
vivemoi2
Sputnik10_
Nerpio
Vindisch
Alvaroes___
CheezAndCrackerz
Khorix
bdsmcolony
Fermier_breton
tabben[/spoiler]

[spoiler=ESOC 1v1 RE ELO]Kollegah7 (IrishFaithful)
Geralt_0f_Rivia (LordRaphael)
william0717
Qiunue
rulettaja123
DutchLucifer
Zidanedu37
JabbaU
Markus_Heining (Lukas_L99)
Hellgate95
kynesie
Mitoe
CHATIMENTS
Çrixüs
GiBthedurrty
M4du37
/////
OPTIMUS__PRIME
Gloin__
Sputnik10_
jerppa123
Tit
kattpaj
playboy1501
bdsmcolony
scady93
LEHARDI
_Legit
yoqpasa
jamescheif100
Jaype22
Aizamk (also The_Stratician)
Mephi_
Nerpio
niubiniubiniubi
pepito57
Forjustice
frog47
Sir_Musket
LikeMeL0veMe (Knuschelbär?)
Terkkson (probably a somali)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=ESOC 1v1 EP ELO]LordRaphael (also Geralt_0f_Rivia)
Howdah_Bout_That (_H2O)
SomppuKunkku
Hokedog
Aizamk
Garja (also 456)
Mitoe
kynesie
Tit
Hazza54321
Kaiserklein
Fourmaster (PrinceofKabul)
OPTIMUS__PRIME
IAmSoldieR
guillenils
iamturk
/////
Guigui08
tokuking
Mephi_
Gloin__
Flontier
CHATIMENTS
retummy
Butifle
EAGLEMUT
ramex12
miggo1999
Knuschelbär (also LikeMeL0veMe?)
pws92
MidnightMessiah
pepito57
Major_Dark
GiBthedurrty
rulettaja123
MeXiCoWiGzZ
Taatudi
Conquerer999
KINGofOsmane
raggamen
Leviathan14[/spoiler]

[spoiler=JP All-time 1v1 ELO]this is an absolute fuckin joke to look through[/spoiler]
tell me which you think is better

[deleted_user0]

Donald trump is not me! I wouldnt lose to mebak. Its a hairy nooblog

[deleted_user0]

If only people were putting the same effort into discussing how to minimize lag in tourney games..

Tits!

[deleted_user0]

You guys are also conveniently ignoring the fact that many top players play 90% unrated games. It's just dumb to base seeding on recent activity when we already have 8 years of elo on a patch that's 10 times as active.

Id argue jp elo struggles with deflation. Right now 2400 elo would be very high but many players used to get to 2500+ and that, combined with inactivity, is actually distorting ranks a lot. I think the fresh esoc RE ELO is actually the most accurate system right now.

Have u actually looked at it lol? Its clearly the worst. There are hackers and smurfs only pretty much, and half of them never play ep or participate in tournaments

[Mitoe]

I'm just waiting for somebody from the Media team like @Mitoe to step in, write half an assay about this, get 15 likes and further fuel the discussion.

I would try, but working 60-70 hours a week gives me very little time to read threads like this. Perhaps in the morning.

[[Armag] diarouga]

If you can't even be bothered to log on and play some games in the next 2 months, you shouldn't get a top seed in the tournament. Simple as that. It's such a low bar to clear and seeing so many people complaining about it is really weird.

If I wanted to join (I don't, it's hypothetical), I wouldn't be bothered to log on and play like 30 games, I'd just sign up, and practice when I need to, ie when I reach RO8 or so.

[[Armag] diarouga]

If you can't even be bothered to log on and play some games in the next 2 months, you shouldn't get a top seed in the tournament. Simple as that. It's such a low bar to clear and seeing so many people complaining about it is really weird.

Not sure about that. I really want older, inactive pro's to join, and if they have to bash 5 noobs before they can seriously play in a tournament, that might be a reason not to join. For people like Blackstar, Samwise, Veni etc I would like them to join even if that means they have to get a manual seed.

It's not just bashing 5 noobs, as it has been explained before. You actually need to play between 10 and 30 games against people who have a decent elo, which is of course time consuming.

[[Armag] diarouga]

It's almost like if players want a higher seed they should play more rated games because they know exactly how all seeds will be determined. Whoooaaaa what a concepptttt.

No one is fooling anyone -- the tournament admins aren't coming out and saying the EP Elo of today is the correct, objective measure of skill. But if no games are played between now and brackets, that is the seeding they will use. They told everyone exactly how the seeding will work, and it's simple, and everyone is given a month and a half to fit in a workable amount of games. If a player wants to change his or her seed they will play more AoE.

It's not perfect, but no method is, and it does remove all the arbitrariness of past seeding. All the marbles are on the table -- players know exactly what to do. This should not be about "well old, inactive player ____ isn't the seed I think they should be" and instead be "I don't think my current Elo is a fair representation of my relative skill, I will play more rated matches to improve my own seed."

The possibility of abuse just shows how right now and probably for a long time the EP ELO is straight up a bad seeding system. Its at least worse than just using a combination of all RE and EP games, and its worth pointing this out.

Its extremely naive - and bordering stupid - to truly think this announcement will stimulate people truly playing ep rated. As I pointed out, its a far better strategy to tactically nitpick opponents that are overrated due to flaws of the current system. If people actually decide to play rated games because of this, I dont see why they dont take it a step further and nitpick their rated games. After all, if the seeding is the only reason to play ranked, you might aswell just do it right. In other words, theres almost no chance for someone like BSOP to climb. And tbh I seriously doubt this will be much of an incentive to anybody, it will simply result in a bad seed I fear. And even as incentive, it actually is incentive to actively game the system, which as shown by musketeer925 is actually possible. Find the lowbobs hovering at 1600 elo and beat them for 5 games, then repeat. Might be better off with the community just playing unrated games together.

Well, you're talking of bashing noobs, but that's not even possible nowadays. I know from experience that pr33- just don't want to play me rated.
Anyway, it shows another time that garja is incapable of having a delicate point of view, and that it has always to be all black and white.

[deleted_user]

The only reason anyone wouldn't want to play vs. me is because I'm too good, no other reason, surely!