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United States of America musketeer925
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30 Nov 2018, 01:25

EAGLEMUT wrote:Furthermore, indian monks don't even have the elephant tag, which is another weirdness we haven't tackled yet.


Hmm. European Explorers have Infantry but not Heavy Infantry unit type (a type of infantry which the European explorer seems to fill the role of). The Indian monks do have the Cavalry unit type. The elephant tag seems on a similar level of specificity as heavy infantry -- perhaps it was excluded intentionally to prevent Indian monks from having affects on it that other heroes don't have?
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United States of America musketeer925
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30 Nov 2018, 01:31

Out of curiosity, do we ever consult old RE patch notes? Seems like they could be helpful in determining what's a bug as well as potential things to "revert" if changes they made were too severe.

http://www.ensemblestudios.com/404.aspx ... h1_02.aspx

Also, some historic notes on Japan & Elephants -- from this I'd conclude there's no historical reason for Samurai to have an additional bonus vs. Elephants. https://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index ... =Elephants
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France Kaiserklein
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30 Nov 2018, 01:43

The elephant tag is anyway totally useless in fights right? It's only so that elephants get buffed from the homecity cards?
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Italy Garja
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30 Nov 2018, 01:55

Maybe then they wanted to counter elephants harder than cav?

Old patch notes are included with the game installation. Can find them in the game folder.
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30 Nov 2018, 01:57

i really dislike the change to team-card spahis and urumis. these shipments aren't OP or problematic (5 urumi fortress-age was, but on EP it's been changed to 4 urumi which is fine) and so it makes no sense to effectively nerf them. it doesn't even make sense flavor-wise. for example if the units are coming from an industrial age ottoman home city, you'd expect them to be equipped with industrial age tech. why would an industrial age teched spahi fight like a colonial aged unit if he's effectively a mercenary for the british ally?

it's not even like you can say this was change was done to make the game "make more sense"; this feature was never even confusing, at least it's no more confusing than how shadow-tech operates in regular units.
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30 Nov 2018, 02:21

Cometk wrote:i really dislike the change to team-card spahis and urumis. these shipments aren't OP or problematic (5 urumi fortress-age was, but on EP it's been changed to 4 urumi which is fine) and so it makes no sense to effectively nerf them. it doesn't even make sense flavor-wise. for example if the units are coming from an industrial age ottoman home city, you'd expect them to be equipped with industrial age tech. why would an industrial age teched spahi fight like a colonial aged unit if he's effectively a mercenary for the british ally?

it's not even like you can say this was change was done to make the game "make more sense"; this feature was never even confusing, at least it's no more confusing than how shadow-tech operates in regular units.


Agreed 100%
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France Kaiserklein
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30 Nov 2018, 02:27

You guys got it wrong, it's a buff. Spahis used to always have fortress stats, no matter what age the team mate was. Now at least they scale when the team mate ages up.
Btw the team spahi card gives 12 spahis in 3v3, I think it's kinda op especially if they scale now
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United States of America Cometk
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30 Nov 2018, 02:33

@Kaiserklein you're absolutely right. my bad!
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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30 Nov 2018, 02:34

musketeer925 wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:Furthermore, indian monks don't even have the elephant tag, which is another weirdness we haven't tackled yet.


Hmm. European Explorers have Infantry but not Heavy Infantry unit type (a type of infantry which the European explorer seems to fill the role of). The Indian monks do have the Cavalry unit type. The elephant tag seems on a similar level of specificity as heavy infantry -- perhaps it was excluded intentionally to prevent Indian monks from having affects on it that other heroes don't have?

I would say it's very arguable whether European Explorers should be considered Heavy Infantry in the first place, which is a tag typically given to infantry that counters cavalry. I'd also disagree that AbstractElephant is on a similar level of specificity, in general it's clearly not meant to be a combat tag that's affecting multipliers at all; there is not even a graphical display defined for this multiplier, so it was never visible on the user interface.

musketeer925 wrote:Out of curiosity, do we ever consult old RE patch notes? Seems like they could be helpful in determining what's a bug as well as potential things to "revert" if changes they made were too severe.
We do, and they are indeed sometimes helpful to determine why certain changes/bugs are found in the game.

Kaiserklein wrote:The elephant tag is anyway totally useless in fights right? It's only so that elephants get buffed from the homecity cards?

Yes, this was the only use of elephant tag in combat as a multiplier, along with the weird trait of negative vill multiplier that elephants had (also removed in this patch).

Garja wrote:Maybe then they wanted to counter elephants harder than cav?

There doesn't appear to be any logical reason for that, from what we could determine.

@Cometk @n0el As Kaiser says, the Spahi change is an effective buff with no downsides, I can confirm that.
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No Flag ovi12
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30 Nov 2018, 02:42

Kaiserklein wrote:You guys got it wrong, it's a buff. Spahis used to always have fortress stats, no matter what age the team mate was. Now at least they scale when the team mate ages up.
Btw the team spahi card gives 12 spahis in 3v3, I think it's kinda op especially if they scale now

But if the teammate is in colonial, will Spahis have colonial stats? Or it doesn't work that way?
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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30 Nov 2018, 02:50

ovi12 wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:You guys got it wrong, it's a buff. Spahis used to always have fortress stats, no matter what age the team mate was. Now at least they scale when the team mate ages up.
Btw the team spahi card gives 12 spahis in 3v3, I think it's kinda op especially if they scale now

But if the teammate is in colonial, will Spahis have colonial stats? Or it doesn't work that way?

Spahis technically don't have Colonial stats, so no, they are always shipped with at least Fortress stats since that's their baseline. This was not changed in the patch.
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France Kaiserklein
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30 Nov 2018, 03:20

All you noobs need to stop using minimized ui, that way you can see what are base stats and what aren't
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well I have better mechanics than you
tbh tower rush is a good strat
India Ashvin
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30 Nov 2018, 08:10

EAGLEMUT wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:You guys got it wrong, it's a buff. Spahis used to always have fortress stats, no matter what age the team mate was. Now at least they scale when the team mate ages up.
Btw the team spahi card gives 12 spahis in 3v3, I think it's kinda op especially if they scale now

But if the teammate is in colonial, will Spahis have colonial stats? Or it doesn't work that way?

Spahis technically don't have Colonial stats, so no, they are always shipped with at least Fortress stats since that's their baseline. This was not changed in the patch.

I remember sending team flails with site. He was in Discovery age still he got them, maybe it depends on the sender.
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Poland pecelot
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30 Nov 2018, 13:23

European explorers are ranged infantry.

Samurai buff makes sense, they're already slow, easy to snipe and most vills have melee resist on top of that. Not sure if the original multiplier was intended or not, though.
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03 Dec 2018, 10:06

Damn... now i want to play again...
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03 Dec 2018, 14:47

EAGLEMUT wrote:
Garja wrote:Maybe indian monks idk. Or simply they wanted samurai not to counter elephants as hard as cav idk.

Well, it wasn't even a negative multiplier, they had 15% bonus damage vs elephants. Furthermore, indian monks don't even have the elephant tag, which is another weirdness we haven't tackled yet.

Isn't the elephant tag entirely irrelevant? Or do the few homecity shipments that affect Elephants actually use the Elephant tag in their functionality?

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03 Dec 2018, 17:27

momuuu wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:
Garja wrote:Maybe indian monks idk. Or simply they wanted samurai not to counter elephants as hard as cav idk.

Well, it wasn't even a negative multiplier, they had 15% bonus damage vs elephants. Furthermore, indian monks don't even have the elephant tag, which is another weirdness we haven't tackled yet.

Isn't the elephant tag entirely irrelevant? Or do the few homecity shipments that affect Elephants actually use the Elephant tag in their functionality?

There are a couple shipments/techs using the tag, such as Elephant combat.

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