ESOC New Year's Classic!

[Hazza54321]

Especially when he can play india

Did no one involved realize that this is the most unfortunate time possible, to run a mono-civ event, or were they ignored? Regardless, it worries me. I only wish you had realized it, or compensated for failing to by communicating with anyone who might have helped you do so.

I quite like the format itself, though, and wish the tournament every bit of succecss. I'll definitely be tuning in!

what are you talking about i didnt even know there was going to be a monociv tourney

[Cometk]

@Hazza54321 I think zoom was agreeing with you and just highlighting the fact that India is a very strong pick

[momuuu]

Conquest format of hearthstone but with civs, that'd be seriously great. Eg you bring 3 civs for a BO5, you have to win once with each civ. If you win with a civ you can't use it again.

Otherwise, a mono civ like format just needs to exclude the no-tp maps because those suck in terms of balance and civ diversity.

[tabben]

About the lag issues in every single ESOC event so far, my opinion is that tourney games shouldn't be casted live unless rigorous testing has been done before a series. There's no doubt that adding 1-2 casters increases the risk of pc lag and/or latency. Some of the casters rarely play the game and don't have optimal graphics/OBS settings to minimize lag.

Personally i think the recorded games should be casted instead. Would be great if UI could be tweaked to work for them and if the game length bar can be hidden/removed.

We've already had some potentially great series ruined by lag this year (LordRaphael vs Kaiserklein, Garja vs Snowww etc.) and if a RO16 player considers not participating soley due to this - then maybe it's time to adress the issue instead of acting surprised every event?

[Garja]

The UI already works on replays (and you can hide the progression bar even). Replay could be casted right after each game is played. The only downside of it is that there is no real time admin intervention.

[aligator92]

Does the trashcan version also start on christmas or later? also will the seeding done by esoc elo?

[n0el]

Does the trashcan version also start on christmas or later? also will the seeding done by esoc elo?

yes

[aligator92]

meh i am on vacation over christmas :/

[Hazza54321]

the ui causes alot of lag and recording the game too

[Snuden]

Time to go LAN.

[QueenOfdestiny]

Please send me a PM with your civ choice when you sure about it.
We want to keep it secret until the signups closed

[spoiler=spoiler]@EAGLEMUT
@bwinner
@JackSparrow_IB
@supernapoleon
@Pikilic
@gibson
@Mitoe
@Hawk_Girl
@kaister
@flontier
@Fripouille
@tabben
@Ashvin
@Vinyanyérë
@[Armag] diarouga
@Kynesie
@Aykin Haraka
@fishboyy
@VooDoo_BoSs
@Lukas_L99
@deleted_user2
@Guigs
@pingiu[/spoiler]

[EAGLEMUT]

The UI already works on replays (and you can hide the progression bar even). Replay could be casted right after each game is played. The only downside of it is that there is no real time admin intervention.

There are many more downsides than that:
- rec game speed on UI maps is usually broken, making the rec play at half speed for example
- essentially impossible to co-cast (screenshare is shit and recs play at different speeds on each PC so can't synchronize either)
- imagine the shitshow when players forget to rec or get their recs overwritten in long series (finals)

Add no admin intervention to that as you said, no game chat, less hype, result leaks... I find casting from recs completely unviable except for some extreme cases with no other option remaining.

[bwinner]

Will there be any balance change befor this event ? Because I think a vast majority of players have expressed themself about india being too strong on this version of the patch and I think this is a problem for this event.

[momuuu]

About the lag issues in every single ESOC event so far, my opinion is that tourney games shouldn't be casted live unless rigorous testing has been done before a series. There's no doubt that adding 1-2 casters increases the risk of pc lag and/or latency. Some of the casters rarely play the game and don't have optimal graphics/OBS settings to minimize lag.

Personally i think the recorded games should be casted instead. Would be great if UI could be tweaked to work for them and if the game length bar can be hidden/removed.

We've already had some potentially great series ruined by lag this year (LordRaphael vs Kaiserklein, Garja vs Snowww etc.) and if a RO16 player considers not participating soley due to this - then maybe it's time to adress the issue instead of acting surprised every event?

I'd counter that by saying that every series that is cast from recorded games is ruined in my opinion.

[[Armag] diarouga]

About the lag issues in every single ESOC event so far, my opinion is that tourney games shouldn't be casted live unless rigorous testing has been done before a series. There's no doubt that adding 1-2 casters increases the risk of pc lag and/or latency. Some of the casters rarely play the game and don't have optimal graphics/OBS settings to minimize lag.

Personally i think the recorded games should be casted instead. Would be great if UI could be tweaked to work for them and if the game length bar can be hidden/removed.

We've already had some potentially great series ruined by lag this year (LordRaphael vs Kaiserklein, Garja vs Snowww etc.) and if a RO16 player considers not participating soley due to this - then maybe it's time to adress the issue instead of acting surprised every event?

I'd counter that by saying that every series that is cast from recorded games is ruined in my opinion.

That's true, however I'd say that the lag issue is more important.
Maybe someone could make a UI to make rec casting more appealing. It would probably solve the issue. Ogamingsc2 casts the sc2 tournaments from replays, and they get 2000+ viewers each time there's a tourney game.

[bwinner]

About the lag issues in every single ESOC event so far, my opinion is that tourney games shouldn't be casted live unless rigorous testing has been done before a series. There's no doubt that adding 1-2 casters increases the risk of pc lag and/or latency. Some of the casters rarely play the game and don't have optimal graphics/OBS settings to minimize lag.

Personally i think the recorded games should be casted instead. Would be great if UI could be tweaked to work for them and if the game length bar can be hidden/removed.

We've already had some potentially great series ruined by lag this year (LordRaphael vs Kaiserklein, Garja vs Snowww etc.) and if a RO16 player considers not participating soley due to this - then maybe it's time to adress the issue instead of acting surprised every event?

I'd counter that by saying that every series that is cast from recorded games is ruined in my opinion.

That's true, however I'd say that the lag issue is more important.
Maybe someone could make a UI to make rec casting more appealing. It would probably solve the issue. Ogamingsc2 casts the sc2 tournaments from replays, and they get 2000+ viewers each time there's a tourney game.

It has nothing to do with the fast he casts from rec, it's just there is a larger viewer base in any case

[momuuu]

Cast from recs is just terrible. The replays often run super slowly, there's greatly reduced excitement because you know it isn't actually live, you're likely to hear what the result really is due to a spoiler, casters will attempt to duo cast but that will just be shitty and 90% of the attention will be devoted to actually keeping the replays in sync. It's not all about the players. I'd actually say the entertainment is far more important, and that is maximized by casting live.

Just don't let people with shitty internet play and teach people like Garja and Kaiserklein to actually deal with a loss like a normal person would rather than blaming any mistake on lag or something else.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

About the lag issues in every single ESOC event so far, my opinion is that tourney games shouldn't be casted live unless rigorous testing has been done before a series. There's no doubt that adding 1-2 casters increases the risk of pc lag and/or latency. Some of the casters rarely play the game and don't have optimal graphics/OBS settings to minimize lag.

Personally i think the recorded games should be casted instead. Would be great if UI could be tweaked to work for them and if the game length bar can be hidden/removed.

We've already had some potentially great series ruined by lag this year (LordRaphael vs Kaiserklein, Garja vs Snowww etc.) and if a RO16 player considers not participating soley due to this - then maybe it's time to adress the issue instead of acting surprised every event?

I'd counter that by saying that every series that is cast from recorded games is ruined in my opinion.

That's true, however I'd say that the lag issue is more important.
Maybe someone could make a UI to make rec casting more appealing. It would probably solve the issue. Ogamingsc2 casts the sc2 tournaments from replays, and they get 2000+ viewers each time there's a tourney game.

It has nothing to do with the fast he casts from rec, it's just there is a larger viewer base in any case

Nah, it's because the UI is exactly the same. You can't tell if it's live or just a rec, so people think it's live.

[Garja]

The UI already works on replays (and you can hide the progression bar even). Replay could be casted right after each game is played. The only downside of it is that there is no real time admin intervention.

There are many more downsides than that:
- rec game speed on UI maps is usually broken, making the rec play at half speed for example
- essentially impossible to co-cast (screenshare is shit and recs play at different speeds on each PC so can't synchronize either)
- imagine the shitshow when players forget to rec or get their recs overwritten in long series (finals)

Add no admin intervention to that as you said, no game chat, less hype, result leaks... I find casting from recs completely unviable except for some extreme cases with no other option remaining.

My idea is to give the rec after each game. By the same player, decided beforehand. Each game is streamed right after it's played, meanwhile players play the next game. If everything is done correctly downtime will be minimal and when it happens (e.g. waiting for a long rec) it gives a chance to caster to introduce the next game.
Rec speed shouldn't be a problem with appropriate graphic settings.
Co-cast with screen sharing is what I've seen a lot of time during streams (which doesn't reduce lag btw, if anything it worsen it).
If players forget to rec they replay the game (shit show ye, but I bet they dont forget if sanctioned, especially when rec game is automatic on EP).
Admin intervention can be done outside of the game, with the only significant drawback of no admin rehost (I dont consider player chat much of a loss).

Surely more complex than just obsing the game but I would go for this over lag all the time.

[Garja]

Just don't let people with shitty internet play and teach people like Garja and Kaiserklein to actually deal with a loss like a normal person would rather than blaming any mistake on lag or something else.

It is not my fault when it lags. I will repeat this until death. It's not like because everyone else has lower standards that I should renunce at my right to complain about lag.

[momuuu]

In reality it is because your inflated ego cannot come to terms with the fact that you lost due to not being as great as your ego has made you think you are, and thus your ego forces your brain to come up with some sort of excuse so that your ego is protected from reality.

But you having higher standards works too, sort of.

[Garja]

In reality it is because your inflated ego cannot come to terms with the fact that you lost due to not being as great as your ego has made you think you are, and thus your ego forces your brain to come up with some sort of excuse so that your ego is protected from reality.

But you having higher standards works too, sort of.

My inflated ego is proportional to my skill. I can come to terms to how good I am because I'm actually objective, not only in regard to my play but also how others play.
The fact that you consider me a bad, not so great, or w/e perception you have of my play doesn't make any difference on my actual level.
I don't need excuses of any sort when I know exactly how, when and where I lose games.

[momuuu]

In reality it is because your inflated ego cannot come to terms with the fact that you lost due to not being as great as your ego has made you think you are, and thus your ego forces your brain to come up with some sort of excuse so that your ego is protected from reality.

But you having higher standards works too, sort of.

My inflated ego is proportional to my skill. I can come to terms to how good I am because I'm actually objective, not only in regard to my play but also how others play.
The fact that you consider me a bad, not so great, or w/e perception you have of my play doesn't make any difference on my actual level.
I don't need excuses of any sort when I know exactly how, when and where I lose games.

And somehow the answer always is "I wasn't trying" or you lose due to "lag". Amazing.

[Garja]

Yes, always, except when I exactly say why I lost and when I actually win.

[SoldieR]

lmao