Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

No Flag tedere12
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by tedere12 »

they just dont play competitive anymore. You see them here and there in qs doing random builds. What's the point of competing?
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Get BlackStar_OP first
:nwc:
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by tedere12 »

I'll see what I can do
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by Peshmerga12 »

tedere12 wrote:they just dont play competitive anymore. You see them here and there in qs doing random builds. What's the point of competing?
Dosen't matter tbh. There names in the tournament are enough to make it worth it. Would also be fun too see H2O.
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Armenia Sargsyan
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by Sargsyan »

tedere12 wrote:I'll see what I can do
can you get 4fr33dom and sirmusket involved too ?
krichk wrote:For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge Challenger_Marco
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by giannisKING »

Theres aboslutely no way Nemanja would ever want to meet me irl, even though he is planing to visit greece this summer.
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by Sargsyan »

giannisKING wrote:Theres aboslutely no way Nemanja would ever want to meet me irl, even though he is planing to visit greece this summer.
Yes, because youre jacked. And not only that, you'd force him to study maths, locked in your basement
krichk wrote:For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge Challenger_Marco
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by deleted_user »

Peshmerga12 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Peshmerga12 wrote:I know Nagayumi and Boneng is a bit active now, can someone ask them if they are intrested to join?
They didn't want to play in the previous ESOC tourneys and one of the reasons was that they didn't like the EP, too far from the RE. So there's no way they'll play on EP 7.
They both seem to like you, maybe tell them there are som fine prizes. You might convince them? Only a dream to see nagayumi play again
They won't play because EP7 is totally a different game than the original game. Patch has run out of it's purpose
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by giveuanxiety »

Yes because RE Otto requiring 10 apm and RE iro requiring right clicking tc is somehow better then current ep...
Lasol wrote: :hmm: just Saw a YouTube video with giveyouanexiaty. He Said check youre stove, if you Want to improve youre aoe3 skills.

WHAT does check your stove means? And how do you do it?
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by deleted_user »

The biggest lie ever made FUCKING LMAO

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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by Hazza54321 »

giveuanxiety wrote:Yes because RE Otto requiring 10 apm and RE iro requiring right clicking tc is somehow better then current ep...
Isnt that just the same on ep xD
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by EAGLEMUT »

deleted_user wrote:The biggest lie ever made FUCKING LMAO

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Sounds true to me. Maybe you should try out Wars of Liberty :hmm:
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momuuu wrote: ↑theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
deleted_user wrote:The biggest lie ever made FUCKING LMAO

Image
Sounds true to me. Maybe you should try out Wars of Liberty :hmm:
WOL is worse than EP 7 but it doesn't make that statement true.
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by deleted_user »

It's very arguably true and you're just stating an opinion you've stated a hundred times. It was the exact same last EP iteration and EP 6 seemed pretty damn good after it was all said and done.

EP 7 seeks to make more changes than its predecessors sure but I don't see "major" gameplay differences between RE; i.e. it's not a foreign game to pick up for the average player. The philosophy has been altered but not abandoned.

Nuanced balance changes disproportionally affect players of higher skill. That's not who the prompt is written for. Consider the intended audience when forming a critique.

I know you and a lot of players including myself have automatic aversions to an arbitrary amount of changes, differing in number for each person, in which the individual considers it excessive because it changes something which has been familiar for them for a decade and that's uncomfortable. I get that, but it's not the only parameter to consider. It is one to consider, however. I think Zoi knows that. I think EP 7 should almost be treated as a compromise between balancer and player, at the very least a discussion and relationship between the two parties, as opposed to previous iterations where it felt like there was really no direction from the balancing party at all. The democratic voice of the patch team was small, combabitive, and ineffective.

I just don't think players know how to communicate with the balancing party because they haven't done it before because there has been no real presence until now. And now there's a convienent and central scapegoat and the wolves are still wolves but they only needn't fight each other now. The unification under a common villain has a comraderic effect, but the perceived, wanted revolution - the abolition of the villain - would leave the wolves to fight amongst themselves again. The winner of the wolves rules by submission, and gains power through activity, loudness, humiliation and those necessarily effective but illogical means of influence. In short, I do not consider the discussions of the patch team of past be to too effective, and I favor the current approach of having one head balancer in this specific situation.

At the same time I know the balancing party does weigh player popularity/majority consensus in absolute favor for potential changes because there's no sense to make a patch no one will play for either party.

I guess it could all be too much to ask for - play testing and communication so late in the game. Most players want recreation, not work, even if it might improve their recreation later. I'm no different, I hate thinking, and I hate testing. That's why people normally get paid to do those things. We can't expect perfection, but we're already a lot closer to it than the paid product.

Mostly it's getting boring when you regurgitate the same grievance over and over every year.
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by giveuanxiety »

@Hazza54321 no. Better maps with actual hunt nerf those strats a lot. 1 less mam is big, and I believe jans are weaker from re version?
Lasol wrote: :hmm: just Saw a YouTube video with giveyouanexiaty. He Said check youre stove, if you Want to improve youre aoe3 skills.

WHAT does check your stove means? And how do you do it?
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by RefluxSemantic »

deleted_user wrote:It's very arguably true and you're just stating an opinion you've stated a hundred times. It was the exact same last EP iteration and EP 6 seemed pretty damn good after it was all said and done.

EP 7 seeks to make more changes than its predecessors sure but I don't see "major" gameplay differences between RE; i.e. it's not a foreign game to pick up for the average player. The philosophy has been altered but not abandoned.
The fact that you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. There are actually a few pretty huge gameplay differences between RE. Sioux for example plays very differently. Imagine picking up the game as an average RE player and trying the standard mass bow rider stuff. That won't feel familiar at all, that will feel foreign. The same can be said about spanish gold, missionaries, Chinese castle banner armies and the very crucial sepoy hp nerf that destroyed the slow sepoy rush strategy. The native xp trickle for example is also a pretty big gameplay change. Some civs do play very differently, some buildings even are very different in their purpose. Of course it's not going to be a completely "foreign game" but WOL isn't a completely foreign game either. That specific statement is a bit of a straw man fallacy to be honest.
Nuanced balance changes disproportionally affect players of higher skill. That's not who the prompt is written for. Consider the intended audience when forming a critique.
The entire purpose of a balance patch - which is definitely what EP started out as - is to change the game at the highest level of skill. The entire target audience of EP is those that are actually negatively affected by imbalances, which would be the players of higher skill. This is also reflected by the actual audience of EP, which is mostly captain+. The changes make a big difference even at the lower levels of players that actually play EP. You can't claim that something similar to what a Spanish gold strat plays like can actually work at the captain level on RE, or that the EP captains don't notice a difference in how Sioux is played, or in how strong the india sepoy rush is. The gameplay changes exactly for the intended audience.
I know you and a lot of players including myself have automatic aversions to an arbitrary amount of changes, differing in number for each person, in which the individual considers it excessive because it changes something which has been familiar for them for a decade and that's uncomfortable. I get that, but it's not the only parameter to consider. It is one to consider, however. I think Zoi knows that. I think EP 7 should almost be treated as a compromise between balancer and player, at the very least a discussion and relationship between the two parties, as opposed to previous iterations where it felt like there was really no direction from the balancing party at all. The democratic voice of the patch team was small, combabitive, and ineffective.

I just don't think players know how to communicate with the balancing party because they haven't done it before because there has been no real presence until now. And now there's a convienent and central scapegoat and the wolves are still wolves but they only needn't fight each other now. The unification under a common villain has a comraderic effect, but the perceived, wanted revolution - the abolition of the villain - would leave the wolves to fight amongst themselves again. The winner of the wolves rules by submission, and gains power through activity, loudness, humiliation and those necessarily effective but illogical means of influence. In short, I do not consider the discussions of the patch team of past be to too effective, and I favor the current approach of having one head balancer in this specific situation.

At the same time I know the balancing party does weigh player popularity/majority consensus in absolute favor for potential changes because there's no sense to make a patch no one will play for either party.

I guess it could all be too much to ask for - play testing and communication so late in the game. Most players want recreation, not work, even if it might improve their recreation later. I'm no different, I hate thinking, and I hate testing. That's why people normally get paid to do those things. We can't expect perfection, but we're already a lot closer to it than the paid product.
What you're saying here is a bit empty to me. Yes, communication isn't great. But other than that you're not really saying much. The fact that it is hard to communicate doesn't invalidate the criticism on EP at all. Also, I'm a bit confused by the fact that you think EP7 should be treated as a compromise between balancer and player. Initially, EP clearly was just to improve the balance. The fact that this philosophy has changed is being criticized. Saying that such criticism is invalid because EP is now a compromise between balance and big gameplay changes seems weird, because the criticism is exactly aimed at the changed philosophy. In fact, between a lot of ambigious writing, the only 'argument' I read is that you justify the change in EP philosophy from being just about balance to also being about gameplay by simply stating that you think EP should be like that. It's just a very confusing argument to me.
Mostly it's getting boring when you regurgitate the same grievance over and over every year.
This "grievance" that you are talking about is in fact mostly constructive criticism, and that is an opinion that is shared by quite a large part of the community. It is being regurgitated every year because the patch keeps moving further away from its initial purpose. I think this entire attitude is wrong. It's wrong to attack (which you implicitly do with your very subjective phrasing) criticism just because it is criticism. The criticism is there because people genuinely don't like the direction of EP, and these people often bring out good arguments. When your patch is rubbing that many players the wrong way, your approach might just be bad.

This is reinforced by something you noticed too:
I know you and a lot of players including myself have automatic aversions to an arbitrary amount of changes, differing in number for each person, in which the individual considers it excessive because it changes something which has been familiar for them for a decade and that's uncomfortable.
I'd not use the term "automatic aversions", because people also have aversions based on reasoning and logic and not based on just being conservative (which you imply with that phrasing in my eyes). But nonetheless, this is exactly the problem with EP. Because once you consider that almost all people have aversions to certain changes, and when you then take into account the sheer number of changes that EP is making nowadays, then you reach the conclusion that this approach inevitably ends up including lots of stuff that people don't like.
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by Aizamk »

bad idea for me to move from nilla to tad, there’s just so many changes and I can’t beat cav with cassa anymore

but wait it’s got a lot of different things I’m not used to to explore that sounds fun
oranges.
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Aizamk wrote:bad idea for me to move from nilla to tad, there’s just so many changes and I can’t beat cav with cassa anymore

but wait it’s got a lot of different things I’m not used to to explore that sounds fun
Professional full time team designing the expansion versus one part time amateur..
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by Cometk »

Sounds like we should be grateful for what we have
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by Cometk »

@chronique @kevinitalien hey, join tourney noobs
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Re: Announcing the $3000 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by Jaeger »

deleted_user wrote:
Peshmerga12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
They both seem to like you, maybe tell them there are som fine prizes. You might convince them? Only a dream to see nagayumi play again
They won't play because EP7 is totally a different game than the original game. Patch has run out ot it's purpose
Yea it's a better game.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Re: Announcing the $2500 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by Jaeger »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Mitoe wrote: Disappointed to hear that several good players may be opting out of this one.
I hope the next tourney will be in July/August so that I can play. Still, I wouldn't really have fun playing EP7.
Lol probably by that time there will be EP8.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Re: Announcing the $2500 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by harcha »

ovi12 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Mitoe wrote: Disappointed to hear that several good players may be opting out of this one.
I hope the next tourney will be in July/August so that I can play. Still, I wouldn't really have fun playing EP7.
Lol probably by that time there will be EP8.
maybe we can move russian artillery units to blockhouse too then :hmm:
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Announcing the $2500 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

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Post by Aizamk »

harcha wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Lol probably by that time there will be EP8.
maybe we can move russian artillery units to blockhouse too then :hmm:
I think there’s already a card that lets you do this
oranges.
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Re: Announcing the $2500 ESOC Winter Championship 2020!

Post by [TLDT]Amsterda »

Aizamk wrote:
harcha wrote:
Show hidden quotes
maybe we can move russian artillery units to blockhouse too then :hmm:
I think there’s already a card that lets you do this
But that's only falconets and mortars.

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