ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by EAGLEMUT »

Image After extensive continued consideration of player feedback, and many, many hours of yet more work, I've decided to make a number of changes more; predictably primarily tweaks to EP8(.1), to one extent or another. The overarching theme is adaptation in light of evolving information, which – like measured response and patience – is vital to any work in progress. This is the reason that it's more extensive than I had intended, originally, and ultimately why I'm ever more comfortable with EP8.

Thank you all for your feedback – whatever the forum – with special thanks to Gamervideo1337, Mitoe, princeofkabul (be sure to whisper him on ESO, for help with gameplay) as well as Skirmisher1080 for their especially helpful help.

I intend to begin work towards EP9, once I've recovered and stabilized from the exhaustion of my recent work-load. In the meantime, let it be known that my last words are 'Indians top civilization'.

~ @zoom

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EP 8.2.0.0
changelog since EP 8.1.0.0

ESOC Patch bug fixes
- Fixed a bug preventing the following Consulate units from receiving their first-in-line shadow upgrade: Carabineer, Kalmuck, Jinete, Roger's Ranger, Prussian Needle Gunner, Horse Artillery.
- Updated Unction description to feature correct Missionary count. [addresses an issue introduced on EP]
- Fixed a bug causing Skirmishers to be labeled as "Veteran" instead of "Guard" when starting in the Post-Industrial age as Dutch.

ESOC Patch Map changes
- Unknown: map updated to @Rikikipu's improved version (v2.6).
- UIx ESOC Tuparro: lightset and terrain adjusted to improve visibility.
- Changes to @vividlyplain's maps detailed here.
- Updated minimap images for UIx ESOC Fraser River, UIx ESOC Nepal, UIx ESOC Bering Strait, UIx ESOC Dhaka, UIx ESOC Wabakimi.

ESOC Patch balance changes
Comments by @zoom, in italic.

General
– Consulate artillery units now receive +10% attack & hitpoints by default
All other Consulate units receive this boost. I see no good reason to warrant this confusing and undisclosed inconsistency, which seems thoroughly undesirable. I would argue that this is the good kind of standardization.

– "British Allies" hitpoints bonus tweaked to +7% (from 5.5%)
Credit to Somppucuckoo, who suggested this buff exclusively to the Sepoy. May he have mercy on us all (particularly me for not instantly over-buffing Indians)!

– "Intervention" shipment increased to 5 "Zweihanders" (from 4) for "German Allies", 5 "Gardeners" (from 4) for "Ottoman Allies", 12 "Besteiros" (from 11) for "Portuguese Allies" and 12 Tercios (from 11) for "Spanish Allies"
I am taking this opportunity to buff some underwhelming Intervention options, in advance of EP9. Please consider the above tweak and read my comments on "Japanese Isolation" tweak below for more information.

– Trading Post minor native alliance trickle tweaked to 0.7xp per second (from 0.8xp per second)
As a direct result of continued map pool trends and feedback, this tweak is being reverted to minimize risk.

– "Advanced Trading Post" shipment tweaked to -40% Trading Post cost, +20% Trading post hitpoints and Trading Post attack-action enabled (from -40% Trading Post cost, +30% Trading post hitpoints and Trading Post attack-action enabled)
Along with the tweak above it, this one should make the shipment more reasonably counterable and strategic, in terms of risk and reward.

– War Hut anti-ship attack inaccuracy removed
Credit to Mitoe for suggesting the inclusion – with this release – of this change, which should not cause adverse effects on balance. We should consider additional cases of inaccuracy removal, in the future. To quote the mighty toe himself: "I think the inconsistency is a balance issue itself. The fact that sometimes your units or buildings may perform very differently from game to game is a pretty big problem. ... Also, it is definitely not fun to miss, which I think should be considered."

Treasures
– 250 food (Cashews and Pears guarded by 4 Jaguars) decreased to 140f (guarded by 3 Jaguars)
– 180 coin (Turquoise Mask guarded by 3 Outlaw Blowgunners) tweaked to 160 coin
– 1 Pet Monkey (A Trapped Macaque unguarded) changed to 1 Pet Monkey (A Trapped Monkey guarded by 2 Snow Monkeys)
– 1 Llama (guarded by 2 Black Bears) changed to 1 Llama (guarded by 1 Black Bear)

Credit to Kaiserklein for these changes, that are adjusting some unbalanced treasures.

Aztecs
– "The Shaman" council member +1 War Hut Travois for Industrial and Imperial ages reverted; Hut attack and hitpoints bonus decreased to 0% (from 10%) for Colonial, increased to 20% (from 10%) for Industrial, and to 30% (from 20%) for Imperial ages, respectively
– War Hut Travois build-rate decreased to 1.5 (from 2)
By now, it is clear to me that the Colonial age "The Shaman" buff is a both fundamentally sound and popular change—outside of credible concern of it being an overbuff. These changes make any given position with the War Huts more breakable, and any push based on them a little weaker (each War Hut takes about eight seconds longer to finish), respectively, while offering significant incentive for later ages.
Players tend not to consider the rush a problem. Thus, reverting the Puma Spearman buff makes relatively little sense. We should re-evaluate it, in the context of these changes.
Good Callen!


– Nobles' Hut anti-ship attack inaccuracy removed
Credit to Mitoe for suggesting the inclusion – with this release – of this change, which should not cause adverse effects on balance. We should consider additional cases of inaccuracy removal, in the future. To quote the mighty toe himself: "I think the inconsistency is a balance issue itself. The fact that sometimes your units or buildings may perform very differently from game to game is a pretty big problem. ... Also, it is definitely not fun to miss, which I think should be considered."

Chinese
– Summer Palace Territorial Army train-time increased from 193s to 210s
Ever since the deadlock vote on the Village cost buff, I've been strongly considering reverting the change. Having since discussed the question further, with a number of players (a couple of whom originally voted in favor of reverting it), it seems that it were undesirable, in the context of EP8, on top of which it would also nerf Colonial-Age play, which it seems hardly anyone finds desirable. Instead, I've decided to take Pérez (kind thanks to him) up on his suggestion to nerf specifically Territorial Army (540res) train-time at the Summer Palace, to slightly nerf the civilization's performance beyond Colonial Age, since British Allies has now been buffed by 40%. Please note that Forbidden Army (830res) and Imperial Army (735res) – whose viability, among others', this change serves to improve – remain unchanged at 294s and 255s, respectively.

Indians
– Per-shipment experience points required decreased to 106% (from 108%)
I don't know how I didn't think of tweaking the shipment penalty being preferable to a House cost buff, until recently. Incidentally, I also realized – recently – that apart from Sepoy mono-compositions, EP has buffed every single unit composition other than Gurkha-Zamburak-Howdah ("Skirm-Goon", some would call it).
Sometimes we get things wrong.


– House cost reverted to 80w (from 70w); bounties adjusted to 16xp ('build', from 14xp) and 32xp ('kill', from 28xp)
I expect this exchange to be a slight general buff to the civilization, which players seem to have downgraded, recently and suddenly, in spite of it almost certainly being stronger on EP8.1, than it has been since the release of EP7.1, over four months ago. There is some logic to that, though, with regards to developments in the map pool, and buffs to many other civilizations, which will help mitigate risk related to buffing Indians, too.

– Mahout Lancer "heavy infantry" multiplier reverted to 0.5 (from 1); "infantry" multiplier reverted to 2 (from 1.75); Mansabdar adjusted accordingly
As in the past, I override player poll results both rarely and reluctantly (in fact, I only recall it happening once). At the time of the most recent balance poll, testing this change had the support of a majority of respondents, including half of top players. Since then, this has shifted, more or less – and for more or less valid reasons. While I definitely do not consider the change properly tested, yet (it’s not even been testable for two weeks, to put things in perspective), it’s too non-essential to justify both the controversy and risks, on account of outdated polling data.

– Siege Elephant line of sight tweaked to 34 (from 36); Mansabdar updated accordingly
By bringing the unit's line of sight to a level in the middle between the standardized value (32), and the Culverin's one (36), this change minimizes risk. Thank you to Kynesie for suggesting this tweak.

Japanese
– "Japanese Isolation" attack bonus increased to +7% (from 5.5%); units no longer receive +10% attack & hitpoints; description updated
As clearly stated, the sole reason for this originally miniscule buff was the circumvention of a big bad bug. It has since been discovered that the change did not manage to achieve this intended objective, hence it being tweaked. It's caused no significant balance issues, until this tweak to (successfully, Eaglemut & Garja willing) resolve the issue—which is why I am being so bold as to implement limited rebalancing of certain Consulate features, ahead of EP9, particularly since Japanese has been on a consistent upwards trend – both in player-perceived performance and in usage. The shrewd PR-stunt would have been to leave this awful bug in the game until EP9, but that's just too detrimental to the game and thus too irresponsible for me to bear. This compensatory, general nerf to Japanese Isolation seems the way to go, lest late-game scaling improve, on top of which individual cost increases have a tendency to do either nothing or too much in the early-game, specifically, which were risky and unpredictable.

– "Bushido Principles" improvement cost increased to 325xprt (from 250xprt)
This change ensures that researching the improvement doesn't allow the player to circumvent the above balancing check, in the mid-game, making the investment more of a strategic choice in the process.

– Yabusame attack reverted to 8 (from 9)
A significant number of players now think that the Yabusame buff is unwarranted and potentially undesirable. As far as I'm concerned, the change has served its purpose; introducing a wider portion of the player-base to using the unit. I predict that the change being reverted will not see the Youabuseme return to obscurity. Incidentally, this is also an indirect nerf to the Yumi Archer, from Fortress Age onwards.

Sioux
– War Club hand attack tweaked to 11 (from 12); siege attack increased to 30 (from 27)
Credit to Kaiserklein for suggesting the inclusion – with this release –of this more balanced tweak to the unit.

Credits

- @vividlyplain, @dansil92, @Rikikipu for respective map changes
- @XaKOps for updated minimap images

Download

1. If you have a previous version installed, you can simply run the EP Launcher and auto-update should have you covered.
2. If you're installing for the first time, download the exe installer.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

By now, it is clear to me that the Colonial age "The Shaman" buff is a both fundamentally sound and popular change
You're so disconnected from reality.
As far as I'm concerned, the change has served its purpose; introducing a wider portion of the player-base to using the unit. I predict that the change being reverted will not see the Youabuseme return to obscurity.
I'm glad you introduced us to using the unit ! Obviously, nobody trained yabusame before you helped us.

It's the first time we need to make a new patch during a tournament by the way, this shows that the current EP leadership can't predict the effects of the changes on balance atm.

Furthermore, I'm disappointed the tournament admins didn't block this. Maybe you should consider that the teams drafted their players based on the current balance ?
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by edeholland »

– Nobles' Hut anti-ship attack inaccuracy removed
How inaccurate were Nobles Huts?
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by Hawk_Girl »

im not even in it but why would you ever make new patch in the middle of a tourney
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

edeholland wrote:
– Nobles' Hut anti-ship attack inaccuracy removed
How inaccurate were Nobles Huts?
Watch the aztec vs otto game between lukas and kaiser, they missed a lot.
This one is almost a bugfix and it makes sense to patch it during a tourney.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hawk_Girl wrote:im not even in it but why would you ever make new patch in the middle of a tourney
Because he fucked up the game balance with EP8, which was predictable considering the EP process. Many top players warned him against it, but he just doesn't listen, he's "happy he introduced us to a new unit", that's the only lesson he drew from EP8.

Almost all of these changes are good, and it's by far the best Zoi Patch so far, but you have to be retarded to implement it during a tourney.
Honestly, he should be fired for incompetence.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by bwinner »

5 gardener for an age 3 shipment seems really strong. 5 huss is already one of the best millitary shipment you can have, so a 10% better one sounds quite good. Idk if that's desirable. Especially since they are auto upgraded. Has it been really though?
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by edeholland »

Yeah a mid-tournament patch update seems silly.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by Kawapasaka »

agree with bwinner 5 consulate coss with the fixed RR is already decent this sounds like a classic case of power creep
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by edeholland »

The rules of the tournament just say
1.1 - All games must be played on the ESOC Patch.
so it seems like two players can just agree to keep playing on 8.1. Not sure if that's desirable.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bwinner wrote:5 gardener for an age 3 shipment seems really strong. 5 huss is already one of the best millitary shipment you can have, so a 10% better one sounds quite good. Idk if that's desirable. Especially since they are auto upgraded. Has it been really though?
Only the changes suggested by serious players like Mitoe have been thought (and even then, Mitoe is just one player so it doesn't make the change automatically good). The consulate changes are probably Zoi's, so they were not thought, and even less discussed.

Zoi is just trolling the tournament admins, the players and the community as a whole with this.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

edeholland wrote:The rules of the tournament just say
1.1 - All games must be played on the ESOC Patch.
so it seems like two players can just agree to keep playing on 8.1. Not sure if that's desirable.
Can the admins even force the players to play on EP 8.2 ?
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

First of all making quality of life changes in a tourny is fine, making balance changes in a tourney does not seem like the greatest idea and would have hoped that this was a EP 8.1.1 kinda patch instead of 8.2.
– "British Allies" hitpoints bonus tweaked to +7% (from 5.5%)
Credit to Somppucuckoo, who suggested this buff exclusively to the Sepoy.
Does it take one person now to suggest a 1.5% HP bonus change and get auto implemented, is this really a necessary and justified change?
– "Intervention" shipment increased to 5 "Zweihanders" (from 4) for "German Allies", 5 "Gardeners" (from 4) for "Ottoman Allies", 12 "Besteiros" (from 11) for "Portuguese Allies" and 12 Tercios (from 11) for "Spanish Allies"
I really urge you to re think this one, especially when you consider ottoman hussars and germ dopps. This Shipment doesnt cost pop as you send so can train more units if housed and under pressure, can send if housed anyway; can be used to send different shipents instead of a european 9 musk, 5 dop, 4/5 huss card. Did i mention that these are also royal veteran (if age 3) units with no research cost/time required? For age 3 india, A mix of intervention and a regular batch will give you 8 really strong heavy calvary there and then. does the russian consulate now need a tweak aswell?
"to slightly nerf the civilization's performance beyond Colonial Age, since British Allies has now been buffed by 40%"
the correct term is reduced ~30% from RE, this kind of (mis)information can get confusing to new players. Last time i looked into the summer palace all the unit batches seemed even in terms of vill seconds.

"- @XaKOps for updated minimap images" So is xakop still in the team or?
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by edeholland »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Furthermore, I'm disappointed the tournament admins didn't block this. Maybe you should consider that the teams drafted their players based on the current balance ?
From what I have heard, the tournament admins were not aware this update was coming.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

During tournaments, only quality of life and bug fix should be made obviously, but Zoi doesn't play in tournaments, and I'm not even sure he gives a fuck about what players and tournament admins think.

1. The Brit consulate and exp penalty buff are totally justified, with the current state of India, but should not be implemented during a tournament. Many players were against the brit cons nerf before EP8, and nothing was done to compensate that nerf, what do you expect ? It proves my point that EP 8 was rushed and it feels like we're playing a tourney on a beta.

2. With the brit consulate nerf, China got nerfed from EP6 (while it was a fine civ). As you pointed out, Zoi made a big balance change claiming that it was a design change, and now he wants to nerf China to compensate a partial revert of this undeserved nerf, that's a joke.

3. You forgot to mention the 2wh nerf. This politician got overbuffed, but changing it in the middle of a tourney is dumb. How am I supposed to test its viability in just a few days ? It feels like many civs can now send 3huss or 8 pikes and kill both your wh, but it takes testing to know that lol.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

edeholland wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Furthermore, I'm disappointed the tournament admins didn't block this. Maybe you should consider that the teams drafted their players based on the current balance ?
From what I have heard, the tournament admins were not aware this update was coming.
And they weren't aware of EP 8.1 one week before EPL either.
They need to do something honestly, they can't let Zoi troll them, else he'll do it again.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by princeofkabul »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
By now, it is clear to me that the Colonial age "The Shaman" buff is a both fundamentally sound and popular change
You're so disconnected from reality.
As far as I'm concerned, the change has served its purpose; introducing a wider portion of the player-base to using the unit. I predict that the change being reverted will not see the Youabuseme return to obscurity.
I'm glad you introduced us to using the unit ! Obviously, nobody trained yabusame before you helped us.

It's the first time we need to make a new patch during a tournament by the way, this shows that the current EP leadership can't predict the effects of the changes on balance atm.

Furthermore, I'm disappointed the tournament admins didn't block this. Maybe you should consider that the teams drafted their players based on the current balance ?
I liked to 2 warhut age up politician, back to fast aging every single game now I guess.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

princeofkabul wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
By now, it is clear to me that the Colonial age "The Shaman" buff is a both fundamentally sound and popular change
You're so disconnected from reality.
As far as I'm concerned, the change has served its purpose; introducing a wider portion of the player-base to using the unit. I predict that the change being reverted will not see the Youabuseme return to obscurity.
I'm glad you introduced us to using the unit ! Obviously, nobody trained yabusame before you helped us.

It's the first time we need to make a new patch during a tournament by the way, this shows that the current EP leadership can't predict the effects of the changes on balance atm.

Furthermore, I'm disappointed the tournament admins didn't block this. Maybe you should consider that the teams drafted their players based on the current balance ?
I liked to 2 warhut age up politician, back to fast aging every single game now I guess.
I liked it as well too haha, but gotta admit it was broken and even op in some MUs.
I don't know if it's still good or too vulnerable to a unit shipment honestly. That's why releasing a patch in the middle of tournament is dumb.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by EAGLEMUT »

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:"- @XaKOps for updated minimap images" So is xakop still in the team or?
He sent them to me before that "goodbye thread" happened.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by knusch »

By now, it is clear to me that the Colonial age "The Shaman" buff is a both fundamentally sound and popular change
u have to be kidding, right?
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Why was there a mid-tournament balance patch without informing the tournament admins?
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

knusch wrote:
By now, it is clear to me that the Colonial age "The Shaman" buff is a both fundamentally sound and popular change
u have to be kidding, right?
He's trolling us with this update.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

bwinner wrote:5 gardener for an age 3 shipment seems really strong. 5 huss is already one of the best millitary shipment you can have, so a 10% better one sounds quite good. Idk if that's desirable. Especially since they are auto upgraded. Has it been really though?
Mind you they were also buffed to 30% ranged resist last patch :)
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:Why was there a mid-tournament balance patch without informing the tournament admins?
I guess it's time for the tournament admins to finally intervene.
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Re: ESOC Patch 8.2.0.0 released

Post by Astaroth »

I don't get why a patch like this is even implemented during a tournament? Who has access to the EP launcher update files? Who makes these calls without consulting anyone? Why does this just happen? Why create an ESOC thread for this?

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