Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

[dansil92]

Picking underdog maps does give you an advantage if you choose to exploit it with practice. I was pleasantly surprised to see so many guatemala picks voluntarily

[sebnan12]

@somp why being so douchey? he had the chance to select maps. he didnt. so if whatever maps admins decide to give him, how can u even complain lol..

[Riotcoke]

Thats... thats what random means

Having someone else pick the maps isn’t random. “of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.” Looks 3 maps seems to be specifically chosen, while riots seem random besides Ceylon. Why is that?

Trevor picked the other two, ceylon i picked as a meme in a twitch chat even though it's terrible. Obviously crooked admins picking good maps for people they like.

[Cometk]

playing a map you might not like is a lot different than being forced to play a civ you don't like. and as diarouga pointed out, it might even be competitively advantageous to have a stacked selection of non-standard maps in your pool.

You have to keep in mind that the players who didn't submit their maps are likely to be players who don't really care, though. Thus, they won't take advantage of this, but ye, if I were the underdog in such a tourney, I'd pick Ceylan/Indonesia and figure these maps out.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well Zavhkan, Yalu River and Cerrado are new maps so you're going to have a better map understanding and slightly better age 1 in theory, but that's not a big deal, while it is with full water maps.

[Cometk]

Well Zavhkan, Yalu River and Cerrado are new maps so you're going to have a better map understanding and slightly better age 1 in theory, but that's not a big deal, while it is with full water maps.

[TheNameDaniel]

The funny thing is I was gonna pick those 3 maps for myself haha, but swapped out guatamala for zavkhan

[look]

I chose some of the maps for people who did not submit their maps in time. Happy fishing!

[look]

i like my maps

enjoy

[Mitoe]

If Bramboy got to choose the for players maps instead of it truly being random then that's even worse.

[Hawk_Girl]

Its a tournament in which alot of people (the organizers) put up alot of free time without getting paid to get it done for us to compete for some real money and also raise some money for a good cause. Taking part in this is also without cost for all the players and so there is only an upside and not a downside to playing. This is organized and provided to us for the sole reason that some people take in upon themselves to fix it for us.

And so if you missed to pick your maps (which is incredible as that is the main point of this tournament), then to start crying because the admins chose some maps... I mean come on. Everyone is always so focused on the one small thing that wasn't perfect. Stop being ungrateful cunts and show some gratitude since we have all this for free.

[look]

it's just stupid to choose 3 trash maps, just because you know I don't usually play in these styles, I wouldn't mind randomness, but this is just for fuck me.
I have to work, take care of the family and still play. sometimes i look at something interesting and just sign up to be part of something i like (aoe3)
anyway, gl

[Mr_Bramboy]

If Bramboy got to choose the for players maps instead of it truly being random then that's even worse.

Why does this come as a surprise for you? It was announced on July 14th, and again on July 17th.

Reminder to those of you who have not submitted to me your selection of maps yet - you have until sign ups close on Friday the 18th at 23:59 GMT to submit. If you fail to send your civs by that time, the admin team will have fun choosing your maps for you, and you won't get the chance to change them once the brackets are released. Continue procrastinating at your own risk!

If you - or others - did not agree with this, you had two options: either pick your maps, or cancel your sign-up. By signing up to a tournament you agree to the tournament rules and any further official communication from the tournament admins. No one has the right to complain about their map pool.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

im still surprised how mendocino was picked just the once

[somp]

lol. it's not that admins had "no right" to do it.
it's that they deliberately sabotaged look's tournament and instead of showing solidarity and letting him repick (im sure prince would be fine w/ that vs look)
it wouldn't even be more than 10 second effort.
it's not an argument that they "work for free" when nobody else has even chance to take their place. i think if we had a little bit older adminds, like brookg, they would show some solidarity to say they did wrong and fix it, instead of going full defence and stubborness. it's volunteer work no other having a chance to volunteer.

I'm sure if admin lineup was something like mitoe/incog/brookg, the tournaments would be much better for everybody.
aoe is supposed to be fun but it seem to become like a strict university where even small mistakes are punished and unforgivable

[juhjuh]

lol. it's not that admins had "no right" to do it.
it's that they deliberately sabotaged look's tournament and instead of showing solidarity and letting him repick (im sure prince would be fine w/ that vs look)
it wouldn't even be more than 10 second effort.
it's not an argument that they "work for free" when nobody else has even chance to take their place. i think if we had a little bit older adminds, like brookg, they would show some solidarity to say they did wrong and fix it, instead of going full defence and stubborness. it's volunteer work no other having a chance to volunteer.

I'm sure if admin lineup was something like mitoe/incog/brookg, the tournaments would be much better for everybody.
aoe is supposed to be fun but it seem to become like a strict university where even small mistakes are punished and unforgivable

I aswell dont see the point in fucking someones tourney up becouse of forgetting something plus look tom will prob not be the only one how will have to play on these maps witch sucks for the other players i for one hope i wont have to play him

Talking about mistakes i am missing to watch Kynesie play and can we please put maps like Dhaka out of the standart map pool i want to play on standart maps if i choose standart maps

[Cometk]

lol. it's not that admins had "no right" to do it.
it's that they deliberately sabotaged look's tournament and instead of showing solidarity and letting him repick (im sure prince would be fine w/ that vs look)
it wouldn't even be more than 10 second effort.

Well yes, it is an issue when you allow one competitor to choose his maps after everyone else's maps are revealed, after who his opponent is and what his opponent's maps are have been revealed, and after the information of who his future opponents would be is also revealed. That would be an unfair privilege granted to nobody else in the tournament. Now I don't believe LoOk is or would ever attempt to game the system in such a way, but that's the slippery slope such lenience would put us on. If we allow LoOk to submit his maps late, why wouldn't we allow all 30 of the other competitors who had their maps chosen for them to do the exact same thing? If we would allow it for LoOk but nobody else, then we'd get railed for bad admin decisions all the same. If we allow it for LoOk and everybody else, we give a pass for abuse.

it's not an argument that they "work for free" when nobody else has even chance to take their place. i think if we had a little bit older adminds, like brookg, they would show some solidarity to say they did wrong and fix it, instead of going full defence and stubborness. it's volunteer work no other having a chance to volunteer.

While I agree that the "but the admins work for free" argument is a poor defense for bad administrative decisions, I disagree with the sentiment that there is no opportunity for others besides ESOC Staff to host a successful tournament. That has been more than demonstrated in the past few months. GiveUAnxiety does it. JaiLed does it. iNcog does it. Riotcoke does it. The treaty kids are doing it. Daedralus is hosting a Wars of Liberty tournament soon. You absolutely have the opportunity to take initiative and host something - really, all it takes is initiative. I don't believe in the defeatist attitude.

[deleted_user]

I pose a hypothetical -- if a tournament with an identical format is run in the future, do admins agree it is better (more fair to players, devoid of bias) to use an RNG to select maps unless otherwise requested (for instance, prince asking for his maps to be hand-picked for him)? And will the default method of alternative map-picking be specified in the original news post/rules when players can sign up, and not only when over half of time has elapsed between sign ups and deadline?

[wardyb1]

Are we seriously defending people that couldn't be bothered to read the rules or were too lazy to submit maps? It was quite clear admins were going to pick maps for people that didn't submit, and I think it could be inferred that they were always going to pick janky maps for a bit of fun. To anyone that is upset with their maps, hopefully this will serve as a lesson to put in some effort on their own behalf. If you wanted truly random maps, it would've taken all of 3min to RNG your own map pool. Surely as a community we've got better things to be doing than having a go at admins for this.

[SoldieR]

Can we add the new maps to the ESOC Maps page?

[deleted_user]

Surely as a community we've got better things to be doing than having a go at admins for this.

Literally I have nothing better to do.

[somp]

I'm not defending people. I'm defending look. Let me imagine look's perspective: you work 8 hours a day and in addition you take care your family. You don't speak English as your mother tongue, like you do wardy, and the advertisement is actually written in quite complicated language. Maybe that's why you don't read it properly. Perhaps you miss the "submit 3 maps" link. Trust me, it can give headache itself starting to translate a foreign language you don't know very well. He signs up to have a nice activity and probably logs in to schedule.

Anyway, you wanna have some good time doing something you like, you sign up for cup and today he logs in to see 2x ceylon, 2x indonesia and 2x guatemala in map pool. As far as I know he has never in his life even played a single water game. That doesn't sound fun. This has been set to him as a "funny troll".
Now, after asking to change it they refuse, even though it wouldn't do harm to anyone, it could be re-randomized to neutralize the troll. Same could have been done for others who asked. I doubt it would be more than 3 people.

Then some western cunts come tell you that you deserve to be punished because you didn't read properly rules in a foreign language and missed the deadline by a few days, before the tournament even started. Not that they made such map pool even for anybody else but just for you. The very lowest seedings don't even probably care anyway.

"Hehe, we ruined his cup! This cunt better learn how to submit maps next time".
"And if someone stands up for him, they're just annoying douches complaining"
Talk about empathy...

[Mitoe]

Not reading the rules is a fine reason to get stuck with a different set of maps than they may have chosen themselves, but it should still be fair.

Look's map pool is anything but fair. Perhaps if it had truly been random, it could be said that there was some fairness in it, but it was not random. It was deliberately selected by the tournament administration for him. How anyone could claim that Look's map pool is fair or fun for anyone other than Kynesie or other experienced water players is beyond me.

If you have control over a player's tournament experience, then you should attempt to act within their best interests. This would be more fun for everyone involved, and would hopefully foster some more trust between the players and the tournament administration. Instead, a meme-worthy map pool was deliberately selected for a player with little to no experience with water play or water civs. That's simply not fair.

If I had been allowed to select Look's map pool, maps like Lumaco, New England, High Plains, or Florida come to mind as maps that would snugly fit the civilizations that I took 30 seconds to confirm that he plays on his elo page. At the very least something other than 2 of the most specialized maps in the game would have been appropriate. Even one of the two may have been annoying but workable, but both is practically sabotage.

[kaister]

Crooked admins! #FreeSomali #FairmapsforLook #WknaW

[wardyb1]

I'm not defending people. I'm defending look. Let me imagine look's perspective: you work 8 hours a day and in addition you take care your family. You don't speak English as your mother tongue, like you do wardy, and the advertisement is actually written in quite complicated language. Maybe that's why you don't read it properly. Perhaps you miss the "submit 3 maps" link. Trust me, it can give headache itself starting to translate a foreign language you don't know very well. He signs up to have a nice activity and probably logs in to schedule.

Anyway, you wanna have some good time doing something you like, you sign up for cup and today he logs in to see 2x ceylon, 2x indonesia and 2x guatemala in map pool. As far as I know he has never in his life even played a single water game. That doesn't sound fun. This has been set to him as a "funny troll".
Now, after asking to change it they refuse, even though it wouldn't do harm to anyone, it could be re-randomized to neutralize the troll. Same could have been done for others who asked. I doubt it would be more than 3 people.

Then some western cunts come tell you that you deserve to be punished because you didn't read properly rules in a foreign language and missed the deadline by a few days, before the tournament even started. Not that they made such map pool even for anybody else but just for you. The very lowest seedings don't even probably care anyway.

"Hehe, we ruined his cup! This cunt better learn how to submit maps next time".
"And if someone stands up for him, they're just annoying douches complaining"
Talk about empathy...

Everyone is busy. That is no excuse.

I totally can understand the difficulty in reading something not in your mother tongue. But again it really isn't an excuse. If you don't understand something, ask the admins. There is 2 obvious links in the post. Personally if I can't read it or not and I was signing up, I'd click both links to see where they lead anyway.

As to the actual map pool, well if someone hasn't played one water game in their life then I think again that is on them. This is a good chance to maybe develop that style of play and grow as a player. All in all, I think there was ample opportunity to resolve any problems and to complain about it now is trying people trying to shed any blame they themselves hold.