Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by Mitoe »

It doesn't matter. I don't see why there shouldn't be any controls in place to ensure people don't get completely screwed over by the random selection.

If Prince requested random maps, that's fine then. But other players should be considered.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Cometk wrote:
Mitoe wrote:Tell me you would be motivated to play in this tournament after seeing that your map pool is the exact opposite in every single way from what you would have selected yourself.
prince specifically asked for admin-selected maps
We'd need Prince's opinion but maybe it means he just wanted a random selection, and not the 2 most unstandard maps.

Anyway, I don't think that this is necessarily bad for Prince. Knowing him, he won't give a shit and won't practice but practicing hard on maps nobody knows is a great strategy to win a tournament, as he would have more practice than his opponents on these maps.
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Post by Cometk »

Mitoe wrote:It doesn't matter. I don't see why there shouldn't be any controls in place to ensure people don't get completely screwed over by the random selection.

If Prince requested random maps, that's fine then. But other players should be considered.
so you're saying all water maps gives a player the best competitive advantage, because it means their opponent doesn't have ample time to prepare against them?
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by Cometk »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Cometk wrote:
Mitoe wrote:Tell me you would be motivated to play in this tournament after seeing that your map pool is the exact opposite in every single way from what you would have selected yourself.
prince specifically asked for admin-selected maps
We'd need Prince's opinion but maybe it means he just wanted a random selection, and not the 2 most unstandard maps.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Cometk wrote:so you're saying all water maps gives a player the best competitive advantage, because it means their opponent doesn't have ample time to prepare against them?
100% water maps, yes. If it's like Baja or Hudson, it doesn't because the opponent can play land and beat your water style, but on Ceylon and Indonesia, both players are forced to play water. Considering neither boneng, nor breeze nor kynesie are in the tournament, you know that you'll understand water play better than any player in this tourney if you spam 50 games on these maps.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by somp »

prince said "surprise me" so I guess he didn't care much
however, not very nice to others like look tom to give the shittiest maps available instead of random
not a surprise shit admin decisions, like usual
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Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

who signs up to an event without reading what the event is about? it was actually well signposted of what the tourny is and how o submit the maps
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

lol @EAGLEMUT even you forgot to submit map pools
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by Cometk »

@I_HaRRiiSoN_I nah some folks specifically asked for admin-pick, eagle included
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by Mitoe »

I think it's fine for those who requested admin pick, but again I don't think it makes sense to ruin a players experience if that is not the case.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

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Post by dansil92 »

48rgdy.jpg
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Post by Cometk »

the solution to getting a bad admin-selected map pool is to win every game. that way you're only playing on your opponent's map :D
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Post by princeofkabul »

I have no problems with them maps, I asked for a surprise and it was delivered.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

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Post by Cometk »

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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by deleted_user »

Always randomize these things to remove bias, and then you can't be accused of bias. It seems like that's just an obvious decision to make, and choosing not to can be construed as being vindictive.
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Post by somp »

dansil92 wrote:
48rgdy.jpg
but this meme is 100% missing the point.
what look tom should have gotten are random maps. instead he got admin decided the most non-standard ones
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by dansil92 »

Thats... thats what random means
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Post by deleted_user »

This is kind of typical - admins make a decision, receive criticism from the community regarding their decision, and then become defensive instead of engaging/even acknowledging the community's points.

Prince isn't the issue here. In some capacity, he specifically requested admins surprise him with a human-picked map pool. That is different than a player who forgot to submit their maps, or was unaware. These players should be given randomized map pools in the interest of fairness, to eliminate bias, and provide a better tournament experience.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by kaister »

dansil92 wrote:Thats... thats what random means
Having someone else pick the maps isn’t random. “of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.” Looks 3 maps seems to be specifically chosen, while riots seem random besides Ceylon. Why is that?
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by EAGLEMUT »

For those who missed it even after being tagged multiple times by the tournament admins, I'll paste the quote on how map selection works in this event right here:
Cometk wrote:Reminder to those of you who have not submitted to me your selection of maps yet - you have until sign ups close on Friday the 18th at 23:59 GMT to submit. If you fail to send your civs by that time, the admin team will have fun choosing your maps for you, and you won't get the chance to change them once the brackets are released. Continue procrastinating at your own risk!

And @amiggo1999 send me your real maps not x3 Texas.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by deleted_user »

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:who signs up to an event without reading what the event is about? it was actually well signposted of what the tourny is and how o submit the maps
A lot of people and this isn't new behavior, it's predictable behavior. Maybe they didn't read the whole thing, didn't understand, forgot, or got too busy. Tbh that shouldn't be a sentence to have a bad tournament experience as a direct result of administrative bias, instead of RNG. This is why I construe it as being spiteful, which RNG cannot be.

I am reminded of the premier civ tourney, where (a lot of) players were assigned their most active civ in Elo because they never submitted one. The administrative intent was not to shoot players in the feet. Instead, the admins' actions took into consideration the player experience and worked to foster that.

That's a fine alternative to RNG because a civ is something you choose and there is a record of your preference. Not so with maps. And this decision will negatively affect the player experience and cause an uneccesary rift between player and admin, which could affect future tournaments. Because RNG doesn't spite.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by deleted_user »

@EAGLEMUT Trevor's reminder was posted 8 days after signups opened, and 5 days before they closed. Nowhere in the OP did it say what would happen if players failed to submit their maps.

This could be avoided if sign ups for these types of events required selection of the maps/civs/random-choice integrated into MyESOC, so that it would be impossible to sign up without having these selected. However that is probably a lot of work and if it malfunctions that'd be very bad.

I don't want to make a fuss because I forgot that this is a charity event, and perhaps that's why admins are playing a little fast and loose. But there hasn't been a proper 1v1 tourney in a long time and I think a lot of players and viewers just want something standard.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by Cometk »

playing a map you might not like is a lot different than being forced to play a civ you don't like. and as diarouga pointed out, it might even be competitively advantageous to have a stacked selection of non-standard maps in your pool.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

Post by Cometk »

deleted_user wrote:@EAGLEMUT Trevor's reminder was posted 8 days after signups opened, and 5 days before they closed. And nowhere in the OP did it say what would happen if players failed to submit their maps.
there were two notices given out. one was given out just a day before sign-ups closed.
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Re: Bracket & Home Maps Revealed! ⚔️ $750 ESOC Stay-at-Home Cup

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Cometk wrote:playing a map you might not like is a lot different than being forced to play a civ you don't like. and as diarouga pointed out, it might even be competitively advantageous to have a stacked selection of non-standard maps in your pool.
You have to keep in mind that the players who didn't submit their maps are likely to be players who don't really care, though. Thus, they won't take advantage of this, but ye, if I were the underdog in such a tourney, I'd pick Ceylan/Indonesia and figure these maps out.

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