$1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

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Tokelau jesus3
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by jesus3 »

It's just arguing for the sake of arguing, one could say being a dick about it. He perfectly gets your point but insists that you show him a perfect metric other than ELO to quantify the definitely existing but subjective (nominal) strength differences
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

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Post by scarm »

Btw. subjective opinions can totally be scientifically translated into a somewhat objective metric. You would first design an interview, transcribe the information, code it and qualitatively analyse it etc. - i think ESOC can do without that fuss and just take an assessment by good players at face value without going through these extra steps...
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by princeofcarthage »

Isn't very recent form the best reflection of a player capabilities. If player A is in bad form then there is no point in keeping player A in group A and potentially seeing a very one sided result, despite what 500 so called experts may say. Peer reviewed format has been implemented few times iirc. Don't think results have been accurate many a times.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Results were rather accurate each time, especially for EPL.
Besides, players like hazza and knusch have been playing random while some players try hard one civ, that changes a lot of things.
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

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Post by gibson »

princeofcarthage wrote:Isn't very recent form the best reflection of a player capabilities. If player A is in bad form then there is no point in keeping player A in group A and potentially seeing a very one sided result, despite what 500 so called experts may say. Peer reviewed format has been implemented few times iirc. Don't think results have been accurate many a times.
What you don’t seem to understand is that ladder games(which elo is based off of)=/= tourney games and not only that but elo taken at some random arbitrary time isn’t going to be completely accurate. I don’t have a problem with the way it was done, but there’s no doubt a player ranking would be better.
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by aaryngend »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:The K-factor of DE elo system seems a bit odd tbh, it probably should be decreased for the top players at least. In chess your K-factor varies depending on your elo, age and number of games.
Spoken like a true mathematician!
Don't hold your breath though, matchmaking and rating algorithms can be quite complicated and no way the devs will implement anything that will make the experience substancially better. Couple that with the rather low population compared to cs:go or LoL and you get your answer.
The chance of them fixing multiplayer UI and being able to chat to people not on our friendslist is way higher.

Anyway, what do people think of a Legend <-> Invite Qualifier kind of system? Many other esports do it this way.
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

aaryngend wrote:
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:The K-factor of DE elo system seems a bit odd tbh, it probably should be decreased for the top players at least. In chess your K-factor varies depending on your elo, age and number of games.
Spoken like a true mathematician!
Don't hold your breath though, matchmaking and rating algorithms can be quite complicated and no way the devs will implement anything that will make the experience substancially better. Couple that with the rather low population compared to cs:go or LoL and you get your answer.
The chance of them fixing multiplayer UI and being able to chat to people not on our friendslist is way higher.

Anyway, what do people think of a Legend <-> Invite Qualifier kind of system? Many other esports do it this way.
Changing the elo formula is a one-line-of-code-thing*, so it's pretty easy to just tweak it a bit from time to time and see if players think it's an improvement.

*actually upon thinking it's a matter of putting a couple of if/else just before your formula to set the K-factors for both players so it may be a couple of lines depending of your indentation choices.
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by aaryngend »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
aaryngend wrote:Anyway, what do people think of a Legend <-> Invite Qualifier kind of system? Many other esports do it this way.
Changing the elo formula is a one-line-of-code-thing*, so it's pretty easy to just tweak it a bit from time to time and see if players think it's an improvement.

*actually upon thinking it's a matter of putting a couple of if/else just before your formula to set the K-factors for both players so it may be a couple of lines depending of your indentation choices.
I'm not talking about elo or rating numbers only, but all the variables that go into matchmaking. That is definitely more than just one line of code :smile:
Primitive matchmaking algorithms and rating systems are much less accurate and limited. On the other hand, the more advanced ones are harder to implement.
Some presentations:


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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by sebnan12 »

Wow seeding by elo has worked out great. Gj
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by JKProwler »

Kaiserklein wrote:
JKProwler wrote:I think the elo is good to get a cut off for qualifiers but in regards to seeding I think there requires some other variables.

But tbh all these issues might have been avoided if Kaiserklein didn't drop like 5 places just before cut off...if he stayed like 2nd or 3rd place the group stages would have looked very good and no1 would be commenting about elo placement
Well I'm too lazy to simulate a new seeding if I was #1, but it might have not been better than this. Regardless, 1 player dropping a few places shouldn't fuck up the entire elo seeding, if it does then the system just sucks.
Not defending the elo system cause it's easy to manipulate the seeding by point sitting or grinding just b4 the cut off.

But certainly the group's would have been more fair in the other scenario
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by toriancarconn »

Hazza54321 wrote:
Challenger_Marco wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Wait date my cousin is h2o or kaister?
H2o
I've heard H20 started streaming on Twitch. Could anyone please share the web link?
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

toriancarconn wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
H2o
I've heard H20 started streaming on Twitch. Could anyone please share the web link?
https://www.twitch.tv/ryanmankle Follow and turn on notifications to get an email when he goes live.
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by querty »

Mitoe wrote:Ah man, winning this group of death is gonna feel real good.
Ez I guess.
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by Astaroth »

Will there be games this weekend? Just asking because there's nothing in the Calender thus far. Thank you for your work! :)

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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

yeah there will be games played of the semis and finals as shwn in the tournament timelines. players are currently scheduling and once we know when the series will start the casting can plan around it

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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by Astaroth »

Cheers!
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

Astaroth wrote:Cheers!
conditional on the players actually finding a time to play their remember :P
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by princeofcarthage »

Group of death.... oh no.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by princeofcarthage »

gibson wrote:Anyone who has any clue about anything knows that one group is harder than the others by a mile.
I am gonna take this as most people here have no clue then. :biggrin: :P
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

You have no clue, yes.
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Re: $1000 ESOC Challenge Cup - Group Stage Reveal

Post by princeofcarthage »

You are like, you shall die but your ego won't.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.

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