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Tuvalu gibson
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Post by gibson »

garja wrote:
gibson wrote:when I said cant play colonial I meant cant stay their and win... I wouldnt consider making a few skirm, hus, or uhlan as staying colonial.....
I mean real colonial. Germans can play colonial just fine.

Except that unless you get in some kickass raids or completely catch your opponent off guard with some early aggressive play you will loose to the other mid tier musket civs and Aztec.....
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

rikikipu wrote:
diarouga wrote:German are too op, thats a fact. It wont be nerfed in a 1st patch because well only touch 5 civs but in next patches itll be nerfed for sure.
diarouga wrote:On fair maps ger, fre and dutch are as good as india.
Fre, ger are as good as china.
Fre, ger, brit, russia are as good as jap.
So Germany is as good as india, china
diarouga wrote:india and china are fine, not too op..
diarouga wrote:India and china are fine as they are, nerfing them would make them not strong enough.
diarouga wrote:india isnt op. China, sioux, az, ger are good but you can beat them.
I think you are missing some constancy in your ideas....
Ger are as good as india and china. When I say that china and india arent op, I mean compared to France/brit/ger (nilla civs). But compared to dutch or spain/port, ger are too op, and india and china as well.
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Post by Garja »

Except that unless you get in some kickass raids or completely catch your opponent off guard with some early aggressive play you will loose to the other mid tier musket civs and Aztec.....



Put that way, it is just not true. I mean at top level play yes perhaps French or Brits beat Germans in colonial but I can tell you there is enough room for Germans to win. The musk lack is compensated partly by other stuff such as having map control and having free Ulhans. Also Germans have dopps which helps indeed. Germans can even beat Japan in colo by keeping the initial momentum.
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Post by gibson »

garja wrote:
Except that unless you get in some kickass raids or completely catch your opponent off guard with some early aggressive play you will loose to the other mid tier musket civs and Aztec.....

Put that way, it is just not true. I mean at top level play yes perhaps French or Brits beat Germans in colonial but I can tell you there is enough room for Germans to win. The musk lack is compensated partly by other stuff such as having map control and having free Ulhans. Also Germans have dopps which helps indeed. Germans can even beat Japan in colo by keeping the initial momentum.

musk hus is inherently better than xbow pike except possibly for applying early pressure. Which is why German looses those MUs by staying colonial. 2 uhlan every few minutes are good for raiding, but relatively useless against musk hus.
3 of Germans age 2 units get countered hard by musk and xbow are mediocre to say the least. Doppls are crazy expensive and completely ineffective against musket. Also, making dops forces you to gather all 3 resources which makes macro much more complex, and you also have to sink resources into Placer mines and ultimately the Super expensive amalgamation. These pay off in the long term, but the only way Germany is gonna win a colonial war is if they do serouis damage early or get some great raids. So by going colonial German you''re banking on the fact that your opponent will fuck and not scout your fb or have bad managing of vils. Needing your opponent to screw up in order for you to win is never a good way to play imo
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Post by Garja »

It hasn't necessarily to be a screw up by the opponent. A contain can win vs musk civs. It is all up to the extent of which German is able to keep the tempo and the musk civ to make use of his mobility.
I'm fully aware of the extent to which musk civs beat Germans, but my point is that there is a general misconception that Germans have to FF or they suck which is not true at all. To some extent Dutch can play colonial for a while too.
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Post by สยาม »

onderhond wrote:
gibson wrote:the to issues I see with colonial China (and theyre really issues with China in general but arent as relevant in age 3) is first off like Russia they need to have all the resources to make a batch of army. So while I can have 3 military structes and que one unit in each and finish off by making 12 units, China just cant do that. To que two batches if army you literally need like 800 resources. Also, due to the fact that they have banner armies, you have to micro well or your screwed. If your opponent just focuses down all your pikes, you will just die to cav, because you dont have the option to make 5 pikes, only the two that come with the standard army or whatever its called. Its just extremely hard to get the right proportion of pike and bow due to the fact that the number you can create each batch is set.
This is also exactly why the keshik needs a boost. If your opponent is focussing down your pikes and you have already used up you pike shipment, you dont want a batch 3 pikes and 3 cho ko nu, you need to be able to mass full anti-cav army, but the pike-keshik army is just unviable/too expensive...

an extra pike card in colonial would be nice too, but that wouldnt fix the problem of the keshik..
extra pike card in colonial ?? lol lol
crad for pike in age2 lol ?
u never play china. u say china have pike card lol.
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Post by สยาม »

diarouga wrote:
evilcheadar wrote:Lol then a successful Chinese ff would be unbeatable.
Atm ger, brit, fre, india, jap, iro, otto can beat a chinese ff.
Iro and otto will be nerfed but dont forget that other civs will be buffed so it will balance a bit more.
And the new patch will be a beta, as gs said, so if we realise that china is too srong, itll be nerfed :)
If ger, brit, fre, india, jap, iro, otto can beat a chinese ff. (u say)
What for china op ?
age2 useless
age 3 cant ff (they beat at age2 (russia iro otto rush or cav+musk rush ))
What OP??
problem for china cant anti pure cav( u say have musk changdao pike manchu)
If u dont have card ( card can 1 shipment ) not jap can 2 shipment
u dont have musk changdo pike manchu = lose? Keshik useless very weak.
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Post by สยาม »

jerom wrote:Age2 china can actually work. I think I saw aiz beat mitoe with it on stream.
? aiz lose germany at tournament (ger(cav) rush )
he can ff but lose eco can''t fram and train units.

at steam he vs unrate

I know he is best china player but
at tournament = lose rush cav
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Post by gibson »

garja wrote:It hasn''t necessarily to be a screw up by the opponent. A contain can win vs musk civs. It is all up to the extent of which German is able to keep the tempo and the musk civ to make use of his mobility.
I''m fully aware of the extent to which musk civs beat Germans, but my point is that there is a general misconception that Germans have to FF or they suck which is not true at all. To some extent Dutch can play colonial for a while too.

on a low resource map where the musk civ is forced to try to take map early I could see that being feasible but if it''s a higher resource map where the musk civ has three hunts and two mines and berries in his base I just don''t think it can work.
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Post by Mimsy for President »

Maybe if you stopped playing 100% siberia, you could improve. China is a top civ.
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Post by สยาม »

gibson wrote:
garja wrote:Put that way, it is just not true. I mean at top level play yes perhaps French or Brits beat Germans in colonial but I can tell you there is enough room for Germans to win. The musk lack is compensated partly by other stuff such as having map control and having free Ulhans. Also Germans have dopps which helps indeed. Germans can even beat Japan in colo by keeping the initial momentum.
musk hus is inherently better than xbow pike except possibly for applying early pressure. Which is why German looses those MUs by staying colonial. 2 uhlan every few minutes are good for raiding, but relatively useless against musk hus.
3 of Germans age 2 units get countered hard by musk and xbow are mediocre to say the least. Doppls are crazy expensive and completely ineffective against musket. Also, making dops forces you to gather all 3 resources which makes macro much more complex, and you also have to sink resources into Placer mines and ultimately the Super expensive amalgamation. These pay off in the long term, but the only way Germany is gonna win a colonial war is if they do serouis damage early or get some great raids. So by going colonial German youre banking on the fact that your opponent will fuck and not scout your fb or have bad managing of vils. Needing your opponent to screw up in order for you to win is never a good way to play imo
yes, hus+musk better than xbow pike
and for china pike and xbow low hp damage
cant anti hus+musk
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Post by สยาม »

diarouga wrote:
evilcheadar wrote:Lol then a successful Chinese ff would be unbeatable.
Atm ger, brit, fre, india, jap, iro, otto can beat a chinese ff.
Iro and otto will be nerfed but dont forget that other civs will be buffed so it will balance a bit more.
And the new patch will be a beta, as gs said, so if we realise that china is too srong, itll be nerfed :)
I see every tournament
watch pro player china vs other civ
i say it is gameshow
they dont rush hard or cav anti china
last tournament china mirror ? ??? ? gameshow ?? china mirror lol
u know china can beat ez
aiz or best china player lose beat (rush hard or pure cav or cav+musk)
I see aiz play every tournament or steam.
What is op for china? I know dont rush hard or cav+musk or pure cav anti china.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

chun wrote:
diarouga wrote:Atm ger, brit, fre, india, jap, iro, otto can beat a chinese ff.
Iro and otto will be nerfed but dont forget that other civs will be buffed so it will balance a bit more.
And the new patch will be a beta, as gs said, so if we realise that china is too srong, itll be nerfed :)
If ger, brit, fre, india, jap, iro, otto can beat a chinese ff. (u say)
What for china op ?
age2 useless
age 3 cant ff (they beat at age2 (russia iro otto rush or cav+musk rush ))
What OP??
problem for china cant anti pure cav( u say have musk changdao pike manchu)
If u dont have card ( card can 1 shipment ) not jap can 2 shipment
u dont have musk changdo pike manchu = lose? Keshik useless very weak.



They loose iro/otto/azzy
Fair MUs: France/ger/brit/jap/india

So they are strong. But not op.
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Post by yemshi »

What's about FP maintenance and server down times?
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Post by zoom »

garja wrote:It hasn''t necessarily to be a screw up by the opponent. A contain can win vs musk civs. It is all up to the extent of which German is able to keep the tempo and the musk civ to make use of his mobility.
I''m fully aware of the extent to which musk civs beat Germans, but my point is that there is a general misconception that Germans have to FF or they suck which is not true at all. To some extent Dutch can play colonial for a while too.
In this sense, Germans are what I think Chinese should be like' a viable Colonial Age but a relatively stronger Fortress Age.
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Post by saveyourskill »

Ill just put this here. Warships vs land units.
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Post by Kaiserklein »

diarouga wrote:
rikikipu wrote:So Germany is as good as india, china
I think you are missing some constancy in your ideas....
Ger are as good as india and china. When I say that china and india arent op, I mean compared to France/brit/ger (nilla civs). But compared to dutch or spain/port, ger are too op, and india and china as well.
So germans are OP compared to dutch ? But you just said that "On fair maps ger, fre and dutch are as good as india"...
And anyway, if you compare any civ to the trash tier civ, it will become OP
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

kaiserklein wrote:
diarouga wrote:Ger are as good as india and china. When I say that china and india arent op, I mean compared to France/brit/ger (nilla civs). But compared to dutch or spain/port, ger are too op, and india and china as well.
But you just said that "On fair maps ger, fre and dutch are as good as india"...
I meant that dutch should be as good as india in the dutch vs india MU not overall lol. Thats like russia, they do well vs japan but they are not as good as jap overall.
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Post by Durokan »

I would love to play on the fan patch! I do have a small worry that I will not be able to find unrated games easily though (on level). To get rid of this worry, I think a Fan Patch clan would be awesome! This clan could also be an advertising system for players who haven't heard of it. For example, a player who constantly sees members of the fp clan might ask why the name is so common. This could bring in lots of new people.
Check out my Custom Map Workshop here!
http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?p=98718#top
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Post by Hagi »

durokan wrote:I would love to play on the fan patch! I do have a small worry that I will not be able to find unrated games easily though (on level). To get rid of this worry, I think a Fan Patch clan would be awesome! This clan could also be an advertising system for players who haven''t heard of it. For example, a player who constantly sees members of the fp clan might ask why the name is so common. This could bring in lots of new people.
+1
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Post by smurfx »

This is anti kynesie patch xD
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Post by zoom »

Go back to Ireland!
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Post by lusas »

I never understand why Yumi archer has a 1.5 x bonus v Inf while xbows or Lb are have 1.3x, YUMI DESTROYS MUSKET META !!!!!!!!!!

Yumi a very counter V muskets!!!!!xbows and lb arent!!! . Its why in brits mirror its Musket v musket and not Lb v muskets because lb<'musket but yumi>' musket . Lets say i cant beat a jap has brits with only muskets but Yumi can beat a Brit pure musk.

u have to fix Yumi to a 1,3 bonus and also chu ku THIS CLEAR FOR ANY FP MAKER . I undertand xbows should be a pike counter and not a musket counter , but Yumi should not be a musket counter neither!!!

I propose for FAIR META TO GIVE A 1.3 BONUS TO ALL ARCHER ' XBOW CLASS NO civ EXEPTION


Maybe a 1.4 bonus for archers and xbow units agaisnt inf could be tested ,1.5 is too high . 1.4 could be good , it allows xbow to be use more while respect muskets meta. Of course u can say french and german would get the most of it , but u can nerf them a bit somewhere.

HALBERDIERS : not used in the game , when u see that pikes have 5 speed its totally fair that halbs should have 4.5 . HAs it is 4 , makes them not usable in the game. Of course the most help civ would be dutch , but they are underpower anyway .

COyote runner _>' change speed from 6,25 to 6 , atack 17 from(18)
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Post by thebritish »

lusas wrote:I never understand why Yumi archer has a 1.5 x bonus v Inf while xbows or Lb are have 1.3x, YUMI DESTROYS MUSKET META !!!!!!!!!!

Yumi a very counter V muskets!!!!!xbows and lb arent!!! . Its why in brits mirror its Musket v musket and not Lb v muskets because lb<'musket but yumi>' musket . Lets say i cant beat a jap has brits with only muskets but Yumi can beat a Brit pure musk.

u have to fix Yumi to a 1,3 bonus and also chu ku THIS CLEAR FOR ANY FP MAKER . I undertand xbows should be a pike counter and not a musket counter , but Yumi should not be a musket counter neither!!!

I propose for FAIR META TO GIVE A 1.3 BONUS TO ALL ARCHER ' XBOW CLASS NO civ EXEPTION


Maybe a 1.4 bonus for archers and xbow units agaisnt inf could be tested ,1.5 is too high . 1.4 could be good , it allows xbow to be use more while respect muskets meta. Of course u can say french and german would get the most of it , but u can nerf them a bit somewhere.

HALBERDIERS : not used in the game , when u see that pikes have 5 speed its totally fair that halbs should have 4.5 . HAs it is 4 , makes them not usable in the game. Of course the most help civ would be dutch , but they are underpower anyway .

COyote runner _>' change speed from 6,25 to 6 , atack 17 from(18)
its better to add bonus to lbows instead of nerfing yumi.
And coyoute runner ("runner") can only be buffed by one attack (their name tells why their speeed is so high)
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