A Farewell to His Manclness, _H2O, Dictator of ESOC

purplesquid · Post by **purplesquid** » 27 Oct 2015, 02:06

Is everyone going to start with level 131 home cities? That would be really nice for people that do not want to spend enough time level up all the home cities.

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 27 Oct 2015, 02:15

Oh, I didnt notice the Japan change. Rip Japan FI.

lusas · Post by **lusas** » 27 Oct 2015, 02:34

All thanks to the team !

Game will be better , balance changes still not enough but better than before.

my ??? goes for the ottoman boost!!! Silk road boost is not need and seems error to me, -100 wood should be in . But not putting -100 w and boosting silk road seems a mistake.

forgrin · Post by **forgrin** » 27 Oct 2015, 02:52

calmyourtits wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Can we get 1k gold shipment for spain ?
Something deep within me rejoices at the thought of this change, but its standardizing and from day 1 we promised ourselves that our changes wouldnt be standardizing. So Im afraid its not happening on my watch.

I always found it strange how Spain, the classic "gold" civ when you think about history, has to scratch around for gold in age 3. What about a strong gold trickle card in age 1 or 2? Just an idea for future patches :p

By the way, Im so excited for Fanpatch, thank you guys

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 27 Oct 2015, 04:52

REALLY AWESOME I LOVE THE WORK DONE!!! I think the changes are mostly great! I love the buffing of dutch. slightly afraid that ports will now be OP but well see! Love what u guys did to abus. Iroquois meh could have used a bit more work but oh well

----so its clear to me that this is not a completed project(is patching a game ever?)

here are my complaints now that Ive given praise

Spanish
- Improved 3 Lancers shipment to 4 Lancers.
*i would have liked to see the 5 lancer brought back although I know their timing would be too unbeatable.

- "Repelling Volley" card now grants (x1) increased bonus damage against Eagle Runner Knights.
- "Close Combat" card now grants (x1) increased bonus damage against Light Infantry as well as Cavalry.

*i disagree, I don??t think walls are strong enough. It is actually not a no brainer. Cavalry could not really siege down walls nor could infantry. Artillery are needed to siege walls,?i mean i get where you are coming from from a fun playstyles/balancing perspective, but in reality walls are not strong enough. then again maybe i should give this one up? its not about reality.

- "Hire Egyptian Mamelukes"
I disagree, this is no longer a viable card, and is such a significant card in aoe3 history its a shame.

*way more work needs to be done on irioqois.. 110 food is too much for a unit that is not that great.

*one more thing!!! polish winged hussar doesnt work with Germany and it??s an awesome card!!!! it should be bug fixed, and maybe even available in age 3XD!!!(with less units of course) not like germany needs any more awesome ships in age 3 but come on wouldn??t it be cool?

BUT GREAT WORK THANKS FAR EXCEEDED MY EXPECTATIONS<' THINK I WILL ACTUALLY PLAY FP AND I DIDNT THINK I WOULD

Zutazuta · Post by **Zutazuta** » 27 Oct 2015, 04:53

Age of Ottomans is upon us.

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 27 Oct 2015, 05:05

garja wrote:
bramboy wrote:Cascade, Bengal, Tibet, and Baja are all great maps for otto to starve its opponent.
Cascade has no tp. It also has 8+6 elks which is equal to 14 bisons. Ah + 4 berries.
Bengal has as many close hunts as kamchatka basically, only slightly further away. Also 2 berrie bushes and again no TP.
Tibet is a special case, can see that being detrimental to Otto too.
Baja California has a decent number of hunts, but ye probably out of those you mentioned is the best for Otto.

Basically there isnt a single esoc maps that have less hunts than the average RE map.

jerom wrote:You know, all things considered, maybe spain got the biggest buff out of all civs.
It is pretty clear to me that ports and dutch got much bigger buff. Spain was about to get more in fact.

it seems that garja is a tad too knowledgeable about reality for this community and made Tibet a low hunt map XD.
IDK cuz i dont really play ESOC maps.

but if thats what u did garja then u are a bad boy and a poppyhead. Dont you remember the idea was balancing not making realistic maps!

mnogud · Post by **mnogud** » 27 Oct 2015, 05:31

CAN ANYONE PLS EXPLAIN ME WHY DON'T EURO VILS GET TO BUILD TCs ?

Marco1698 · Post by **Marco1698** » 27 Oct 2015, 06:25

Cascade, Tibet, bengal are great maps for Otto still, if we consider we can replace tp with church + speed vills production. Anyway, in general rush on eso maps doesn't work as good as on standard maps because opponent has got all his resources in his base

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 27 Oct 2015, 06:26

ovi12 wrote:
kaiserklein wrote:Really nice to see we will finally be able to play on fair maps and with more balanced civs. But there is 1 thing people havent mentioned in this thread yet, tho it will in my opinion be the biggest flaw in the balance. And it will also change the meta, which is what the FP team didnt want I think.

Im talking about that card tad players dont really know : silk road. For those who dont know, on tad it increases the crates by 15%, increases what you get from stagecoach by 15%, and works for the whole team. On nilla, this card is 30%. So now, it will be 25%, almost as much as on nilla. BUT in age 1. Which means you can now ship it after 3 vils, before colonial, because of the otto free TP.

So lets imagine you have a 400w start. You just take 80 in each crate, which makes 320 wood = enough for a TP + house. When silk road comes, you get +25 wood in each crate, which means you get on the floor 200 wood (you left 100 and you earn 100). Why not, you get a second TP without chopping any wood.
Then you age up. 500w age up. You make an abus/jan build, 700w 700g 600g, or rather 875w 875g 750g.

So what happened ? After this you already got a 700 resources shipment. But remember this also works for stagecoach. Remember this also works for the team. Remember you can ship this in age 1 and get a faster TP, while still having a shipment ready in colonial. And also think every other crate you might ship will be improved (600w, 700f, 1000w, 1000g ?).

On nilla this card is insane. You can get 35 abus or 30 huss before 9 minutes using it. Ok its 30%, but still... At least its a slow timing, because you have to ship it in colonial as first card if you want it to be most effective, which means it delayed the 700w/700g or whatever, and so most likely delayed the first batch. Now you can jan abus with eco and still be fast, maybe even faster...

Sorry if thats a bit long but Im 100% sure that this card will be way too op, all the more so in team games. I think if you dont change it it will be abused and might make otto even more overpowered than before, with a new "boomy" otto meta.
I dont see how you can argue with this.

People seem to forget we did testing games and sam was doing a sr semi into ca/abus and it didnt work at all.
It is a good shipment for a late colonial timing but, can you always wait 9min?
Vs TAD civs you definitely cant, vs twc civs you wont have time and most nilla civ can just age up vs that and win in age3 vs age2. What is scary on the re is that you cant age 3 vs a jan/abus nor beat it in age2.

Kaiserklein is saying that we have no clue about sr but actually we do. H2O and GS were playing before the SR nerf on TAD, musket/garja/me played many games on nilla and we know how good/bad is SR and it was almost never a good option in nilla.

oxaloacetate · Post by **oxaloacetate** » 27 Oct 2015, 06:37

jerom wrote:It feels as if ottomans -100 starting wood is missing. As in, did you forget to include this change in the notes?

jerom wrote:Im not too happy with california and cascade range either tbh.

But everything better than the current qs map pool.

jerom wrote:I think otto couldve used a -100w nerf personally.

jerom wrote:The silk road change is just.. no. You cant do that if you have disagreed on tons of other potential changes because you dont want to change the way the game works. But whatever.

jerom wrote:Oh, I didnt notice the Japan change. Rip Japan FI.

Dude, can you please stop? .____.

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 27 Oct 2015, 06:41

@Jerom Do you now understand why we didn't publish the notes before?
Because people, including you, are talking about balance changes while they haven't tested it yet.
Some changes can seem small, the otto one, the port one and the dutch one but really they are balanced civs now.

Do you remember that -2% exp and nerfed shipments put spain from top civ to underpowered?
That -1v, +100c, -50% bank exp, +bank wagon killed dutch?

These are small changes and totally changed the balance. Trust us when we say that port is now a good civ, that dutch is playable and that otto isn't broken.

DerMaxinator · Post by **DerMaxinator** » 27 Oct 2015, 07:50

Where will we be able to find the download of the patch when it comes out?

mnogud · Post by **mnogud** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:02

diarouga wrote:@jerom Do you now understand why we didn''t publish the notes before?
Because people, including you, are talking about balance changes while they haven''t tested it yet.
Some changes can seem small, the otto one, the port one and the dutch one but really they are balanced civs now.

Do you remember that -2% exp and nerfed shipments put spain from top civ to underpowered?
That -1v, +100c, -50% bank exp, +bank wagon killed dutch?

These are small changes and totally changed the balance. Trust us when we say that port is now a good civ, that dutch is playable and that otto isn''t broken.

PLS EXPLAIN ME WHY DON''T EURO VILS GET TO BUILD TCs ?

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:11

mnogud wrote:
diarouga wrote:@jerom Do you now understand why we didnt publish the notes before?
Because people, including you, are talking about balance changes while they havent tested it yet.
Some changes can seem small, the otto one, the port one and the dutch one but really they are balanced civs now.

Do you remember that -2% exp and nerfed shipments put spain from top civ to underpowered?
That -1v, +100c, -50% bank exp, +bank wagon killed dutch?

These are small changes and totally changed the balance. Trust us when we say that port is now a good civ, that dutch is playable and that otto isnt broken.
PLS EXPLAIN ME WHY DONT EURO VILS GET TO BUILD TCs ?

Because it doesnt matter at all and we dont want to change the meta

iNcog · Post by **iNcog** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:12

Yeah I agree with diarouga's post there. As someone who has been on the receiving end of Otto's SR. Yes, they age up with 500w when you send that card. In fact it's more than possible to go 3v, Silk Road and still have a shipment ready when you hit Colonial.

Otto's colonial units remained nerfed, they have a better economy to compensate for it, but their economy still isn't good. Time to test out the patch for yourselves. Again, remember that if balance still isn't good (which it won't realistically be), then we will be able to adjust that in the future patch.

mnogud · Post by **mnogud** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:48

diarouga wrote:
mnogud wrote:PLS EXPLAIN ME WHY DONT EURO VILS GET TO BUILD TCs ?
Because it doesnt matter at all and we dont want to change the meta

how will it change the meta ? it makes no sense to me... it is such a pain when ur tc is destroyed and u cant build it else where as ur explorer is dead

mnogud · Post by **mnogud** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:48

it is highly unfair that asian and warchief civs can do the same and euro civs cant...

samwise12 · Post by **samwise12** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:48

incog wrote:Yeah I agree with diarouga''s post there. As someone who has been on the receiving end of Otto''s SR. Yes, they age up with 500w when you send that card. In fact it''s more than possible to go 3v, Silk Road and still have a shipment ready when you hit Colonial.

Otto''s colonial units remained nerfed, they have a better economy to compensate for it, but their economy still isn''t good. Time to test out the patch for yourselves. Again, remember that if balance still isn''t good (which it won''t realistically be), then we will be able to adjust that in the future patch.

You won''t have a shipment ready if you send 3v and silk road age 1. In fact even in the best case scenario silk road will arrive just before you hit age 2 and you have a fairly long wait until the 3rd shipment. Even with the better crates Otto eco is underwhelming compared with almost all euro + TAD civs. Although i was saying we should keep -100 wood, everyone else seemed to disagree. Abus play a big factor in their age 2 play imo, and as musket has already said its such a large investment for Otto to get vet abus with their standard FF style. From the test games i played, i came to the conclusion that if otto were to play this eco heavy style with silk road they just felt too slow with everything else, and most civs on the ESO-C maps could exploit that.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:50

I can't wait until Friday! I'm looking forward to playing on this patch so very much...

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:58

mnogud wrote:it is highly unfair that asian and warchief civs can do the same and euro civs cant...

Yes. Life isn''t fair. Some things are different from others.

There are two essential reasons for not including this change:

1. It changes civilization design.
2. It''s virtually irrelevant to inter-civilization balance.

iNcog · Post by **iNcog** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:58

samwise12 wrote:
incog wrote:Yeah I agree with diarougas post there. As someone who has been on the receiving end of Ottos SR. Yes, they age up with 500w when you send that card. In fact its more than possible to go 3v, Silk Road and still have a shipment ready when you hit Colonial.

Ottos colonial units remained nerfed, they have a better economy to compensate for it, but their economy still isnt good. Time to test out the patch for yourselves. Again, remember that if balance still isnt good (which it wont realistically be), then we will be able to adjust that in the future patch.
You wont have a shipment ready if you send 3v and silk road age 1. In fact even in the best case scenario silk road will arrive just before you hit age 2 and you have a fairly long wait until the 3rd shipment. Even with the better crates Otto eco is underwhelming compared with almost all euro + TAD civs. Although i was saying we should keep -100 wood, everyone else seemed to disagree. Abus play a big factor in their age 2 play imo, and as musket has already said its such a large investment for Otto to get vet abus with their standard FF style. From the test games i played, i came to the conclusion that if otto were to play this eco heavy style with silk road they just felt too slow with everything else, and most civs on the ESO-C maps could exploit that.

Rly? Maybe I misread something in the discussions then, oops. I played one otto game and then deleted that HC. Either way, point stands, Otto isnt really OP imo

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 27 Oct 2015, 08:59

dermaxinator wrote:Where will we be able to find the download of the patch when it comes out?

A download link will be provided in a news post, I''m sure...

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 27 Oct 2015, 09:02

If bad comes to worst and it is indeed the case that Ottomans are unacceptably strong, rest assured it will be addressed in a future update.

I would like to remind everyone not to jump to conclusions, speculating without proper play-testing.

fard · Post by **fard** » 27 Oct 2015, 09:14

Otto seems very strong indeed, yeah *_*

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