snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by koenigerik1 »

[spoiler=Result]3-0 for snowww[/spoiler]
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[EP5-1-1 SP] KINGofOsmane[IN] vs snowww[BR] - ESOC Cascade Range.age3yrec
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[EP5-1-1 SP] KINGofOsmane[IN] vs snowww[BR] - ESOC Pampas Sierras.age3yrec
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[EP5-1-1 SP] KINGofOsmane[IN] vs snowww[BR] - ESOC Hudson Bay.age3yrec
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

India is op confirmed.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by sebnan12 »

ye pretty sure osmane wouldve swept snowww 3-0 if the mu was the other way around..
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by Kickass_OP »

Poor King :cry:. At least it was not jerom this time
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by P i k i l i c »

König > King :kinggreen:
Consider not the one who speaks the truth, but the truth that is said

:hmm: AoE logic :hmm:
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by pecelot »

King > Prince :hmm:
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by Veni_Vidi_Vici_W »

Erik is the better player, Osmane can do better made silly mistakes, this says nothing.

What was really most annoying is that twice you let your urumi get distracted by 1st the hus flank, then 2nd the MM flank. This was a good move from Erik ofc, but I really dont get why you didnt retask your urumi. This matters so much, 5 urumi constantly sweeping and slowing down his musk mass or just 3 ^^
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Veni_Vidi_Vici_W wrote:Erik is the better player, Osmane can do better made silly mistakes, this says nothing.

What was really most annoying is that twice you let your urumi get distracted by 1st the hus flank, then 2nd the MM flank. This was a good move from Erik ofc, but I really dont get why you didnt retask your urumi. This matters so much, 5 urumi constantly sweeping and slowing down his musk mass or just 3 ^^

Well erik is the better player of course, but in all these games erik had more eco and more army all the time. Of course India can be scary with a big sepoy/urumi mass with meme fire (which should be removed by the way, there's no room for that in a competitive RTS game), but still, it shows that this MU is far from hopeless.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by Veni_Vidi_Vici_W »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:but still, it shows that this MU is far from hopeless.

I agree with this sentence, but im not sure if you meant it as you wrote it? I thought you were of the opinion that Brit should beat India rather easy?

I think the matchup is India favored, although not by a big margin to be clear, but for sure not how Osmane played it. His play lead to more economic disparity than it should have imo, or at least not a justified economic disparity since his pushes/choices that caused the disparity were not that great. For example losing so many vill and not making like 5 ghurka that 2nd game where he aged, with the wall-musk raid, completely changed the game. Also the last game he was fine, in eco as well, but going for 2 useless siege ele that early was a poor choice. Not just because they were useles at that point, but because he lost the ability to deal with 2 falcs later on without 2 siege ele or urumis and not able to make new ele in time.
This is an interesting point btw, as Osmane probably anticipated the 2 falc shipment from Brits and wanted to neutralize it, which in itself a good thought. Where it gets really interesting, is why Erik didnt ship falc (8v first i think). Because he wanted to go for more eco first as he generally does? Because he was outsmarting Osmane thinking he would go for 2 siege ele and thus render them useless? Or because he just felt that he didnt need 2 falc yet, since he had enough resources left to mass and wasnt under pressure yet. I think its more of the latter, which is something Osmane could have expected. But again, this is a players skill regardless from the civ. But ofc this isnt easy in game :)

Also more eco and more army in itself isnt a valid argument. I like the obs stats, but i think they are sometimes discussed out of context. If Brits has more vills but not able to gather more or has to walk more, its not effective eco. Similarly, I assume you agree with me that 1 sepoy is better than 1 musk, so if you only look at army population as we see in the obs stats, it doesnt tell you the whole picture.

If you just look at the game result and overall play without the details, ye then sure it seems brit favored. But imo this is misleading since the brit player played much better. Its like saying 3 uhlan beat 3 hus, just because the uhlan guy pulled 1 back and the hus guy didnt and lost HP to the other uhlans. The overal result would lead to a wrong conclusion, if you dont take into account the details and what lead to the result in the first place.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Veni_Vidi_Vici_W wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:but still, it shows that this MU is far from hopeless.

I agree with this sentence, but im not sure if you meant it as you wrote it? I thought you were of the opinion that Brit should beat India rather easy?

I think the matchup is India favored, although not by a big margin to be clear, but for sure not how Osmane played it. His play lead to more economic disparity than it should have imo, or at least not a justified economic disparity since his pushes/choices that caused the disparity were not that great. For example losing so many vill and not making like 5 ghurka that 2nd game where he aged, with the wall-musk raid, completely changed the game. Also the last game he was fine, in eco as well, but going for 2 useless siege ele that early was a poor choice. Not just because they were useles at that point, but because he lost the ability to deal with 2 falcs later on without 2 siege ele or urumis and not able to make new ele in time.
This is an interesting point btw, as Osmane probably anticipated the 2 falc shipment from Brits and wanted to neutralize it, which in itself a good thought. Where it gets really interesting, is why Erik didnt ship falc (8v first i think). Because he wanted to go for more eco first as he generally does? Because he was outsmarting Osmane thinking he would go for 2 siege ele and thus render them useless? Or because he just felt that he didnt need 2 falc yet, since he had enough resources left to mass and wasnt under pressure yet. I think its more of the latter, which is something Osmane could have expected. But again, this is a players skill regardless from the civ. But ofc this isnt easy in game :)

Also more eco and more army in itself isnt a valid argument. I like the obs stats, but i think they are sometimes discussed out of context. If Brits has more vills but not able to gather more or has to walk more, its not effective eco. Similarly, I assume you agree with me that 1 sepoy is better than 1 musk, so if you only look at army population as we see in the obs stats, it doesnt tell you the whole picture.

If you just look at the game result and overall play without the details, ye then sure it seems brit favored. But imo this is misleading since the brit player played much better. Its like saying 3 uhlan beat 3 hus, just because the uhlan guy pulled 1 back and the hus guy didnt and lost HP to the other uhlans. The overal result would lead to a wrong conclusion, if you dont take into account the details and what lead to the result in the first place.

Not really. I think that the MU is very close, but slightly brit favoured.
In my opinion, the best way to play it as India is to play it as Osmane did (except with better micro/macro). You want to make sepoys only (because gurkhas die too fast to lb, although erik doesn't seem to like lb a lot since he didn't train them, nor shipped 10lb), and ship urumis. You actually don't need the 2 siege elephants to deal with the falcs, as the meme fire is enough to kill them.
Anyway, in that last game, erik's macro was awful. As you know, I'm a big fan of VC, and I've used this build a lot, and erik was like 40 sec late on his build order because he decided to build the market, and didn't boom as much as he could have, so that game isn't very relevant either.

Anyway, erik decided to go 8vills first to outboom Osmane, and then he saw the siege elephants, which is why he didn't ship the 2 falcs. I don't think that he expected Osmane to send the 2 siege elephants, as most of the guys who play India just use the meme fire.

I think that the way erik played this MU makes it very close, because sepoy mass+urumi should do well against it, since as you said, sepoys are better than musks, but I used to play this MU the same way erik did, with the 10 jaegers. I think that in this MU, the jaegers are key, because India can't really deal with them effectively (in fact, they don't have a proper cavalry unit, and you can't make gurkhas because they'll get sniped by the longbowmen).
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by princeofkabul »

Veni_Vidi_Vici_W wrote:Erik is the better player, Osmane can do better made silly mistakes, this says nothing.

What was really most annoying is that twice you let your urumi get distracted by 1st the hus flank, then 2nd the MM flank. This was a good move from Erik ofc, but I really dont get why you didnt retask your urumi. This matters so much, 5 urumi constantly sweeping and slowing down his musk mass or just 3 ^^


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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by bwinner »

Diarouga trying to make us believe Osmane played better than Erik but lost bc india is bad is hilarous.

In my opinion, all in sepoy rush like Osmane did game one is bad. You should better start greedier and contain if you want to be aggressiv.
FI should have worked in the 2 other game but game 2 Osmane deleted 6 settler early on which is obviously game losing
Game 3 he obviously did huge misstake with siege elifent and then took bad fight.

Conclusion : This game absolutly don't show india lose to brit, they just show Osmane lose to Erik which we already knew.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by gibson »

Osmane also doesn't do well in tourneys, he's lost to Jerom and out creator, stanley_botstan twice for fucks sake
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by gh0st »

gibson wrote:Osmane also doesn't do well in tourneys, he's lost to Jerom and out creator, stanley_botstan twice for fucks sake

yea, also it took him 3 games to beat the G in a bo5.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by momuuu »

To be fair, there is no result in the past 3 years that indicates that garja is actually a great player.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by deleted_user0 »

The bait has been thrown in, now it's just time to reel in the G-fish
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by Hazza54321 »

dangling the worm
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bwinner1 wrote:Diarouga trying to make us believe Osmane played better than Erik but lost bc india is bad is hilarous.

No, I said that erik played better lol?

In my opinion, all in sepoy rush like Osmane did game one is bad.

Yes, indeed.

You should better start greedier and contain if you want to be aggressiv.

And this loses to a musk/falc timing, which is why you have to go age 3.

FI should have worked in the 2 other game but game 2 Osmane deleted 6 settler early on which is obviously game losing

Hum, not sure FI should have worked, but it can definitely work if the brit player isn't careful.

Game 3 he obviously did huge misstake with siege elifent and then took bad fight.

Conclusion : This game absolutly don't show india lose to brit, they just show Osmane lose to Erik which we already knew.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

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Post by Method_man714 »

Hazza54321 wrote:dangling the worm


We dont want to hear about your weekend thanks Harry.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by Jaeger »

momuuu wrote:To be fair, there is no result in the past 3 years that indicates that garja is actually a great player.

But to be 100% fair, there's also no evidence that he isn't tired, or that it doesn't lag, or that his opponents aren't too bad for the next level strategies to work.
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Re: snowww vs KINGofOsmane

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

ovi12 wrote:
momuuu wrote:To be fair, there is no result in the past 3 years that indicates that garja is actually a great player.

But to be 100% fair, there's also no evidence that he isn't tired, or it lags, or that his opponents aren't too bad for the next level strategies to work.

lmao.

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