Kaiserklein vs diarouga

[deleted_user]

btw im glad i can bring all kaiser FANboyfriends together haha.

[Hazza54321]

Try taking diarougas penis out of your mouth before speaking

[Tim010]

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Where those ppl that said dia would win 4-0??

Obviously I said that, because diarouga is strategically smarter, and there is no doubt that what kaiser does is not better than samwise-h2o-bsop-königerik or any other top players did in the past. surely he is good at what he does. but it's not bringing any variety to the game. For istance he tried to play non-standard on pampas sierras game which was a big frustration for german player, if i had chance to bet again today, I would say again diarouga beats 4-0. because it won't change the fact that diarouga is better player anyway, for kaiser FANboyfriend. I would request him to not mention me with someone else's achievement then I can consider answering him.

ggs wp both

It's funny cause you always call me a cav semi bot, yet here I played 6/8 games in colonial and never went cav semi. And you still say what I do doesn't bring variety lol. I went naked ff with forward tower, which no one does. Went for some big dop cav + 8 bows timings, which isn't standard. Went bow dop, went double rax bow pike timing.
This just shows you don't know what you're talking about btw I'm quite sure diarouga himself would never claim he should win 4-0 vs me. It's obvious he shouldn't.
Funny you mention erik, both tourney series we played were really close and ended 4-3. But yeah I'm defo not close to him haha.

First. I still think you are a cav semi semi bot, nothing changed here. If you ever were good player, you would try adapting instead of crying and influencing zoi to implement unnecessary changes to improve your bot style. Also making bows shouldnt be hard for you as a player who went %90 german tower rush in nilla xD I dont think you ever understand me anyway

I don't think i am considered/consider myself a Kaiser fanboy making me able to reacte objectively to this.

First of all half of your reaction has nothing to do with the games played yesterday. By saying "If you ever were a good player you would try adapting" you confirm that Kaiser is indeed a good player because there was no cav semi in the series. Blaming him to be a cav semi bot and a xbow spammer at the same this is also a strange statement. So the problem lies with the "i still think". You have your opinion and want to let that opinion stick to the series by giving arguments that prove just the opposite. So the problem is not that someone will not understand you, the problem is you making a contradictionary statement based on games outsude this series.


Anyway, was a great series to watch, a bit unlucky in game 3, last game with the explorer was crazy. Congrats to Kaiser but i'll be rooting for spain in the final (because as the noob i am, i didn't figure out how to change the default nation and got stuck playing spain for months back in the day)

[Garja]

Those who said 4-0 diarouga have no clue about the MU. It's objectively a hard one and would be harder if Kaiser was more of raid player. But anyway he has good micro so it makes 80% of aztec strata unsuccessful in this MU.
I didnt watch the games carefully but I think it was worth trying coyo+puma (+mace) in atleast one of them.

[deleted_user0]

Ashtec fi lawl

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah who understands breeze haha. The dude just feels dumb after saying I'd get 4-0'd and instead of admitting he was wrong he keeps calling me a cav semi bot after I literally didn't cav semi even once in 8 german games. Keep being ridiculous

[UpMySleeves]

@Tim010 Logic and objectivity have no place on this forum, how dare you even?!

All in all it was an enterteining series with a really funny last game.
I was wondering why not always let one[non-lagger] guy cast, while the other[maybe lagger] watch on Discord. Surely providing the smoothest gamplay possible while still casting live is what everyone wants.

Anyway looking forward to Hazza and Isabella`s victory, proving that team>1v1. Kappa

[edeholland]

There are a few reasons why having two casters in game is preferred over having one caster with screen share.

-Screen share kinda sucks. The quality is okay-ish if you want to see what is going on, but text is mostly unreadable (depends on the streamer, of course).
-Screen share takes more resources from the computer of the streamer. The streamer has to run the game, capture the screen, upload the stream to Twitch, remain a voice call with caster 2, capture the screen and upload that screen to Discord for caster 2. This is more intensive for your internet and your computer, so not every streamer will be able to handle it.
-Having two casters means you have two camera's. The streamer and second caster both have a camera with UI. This makes it easy for the streamer to check on a raid while the other casters check a sent shipment or a deck. It also means it's harder to miss anything happening. Most importantly, caster 2 can talk about what he/she sees right now, not just about what the streamer sees. It's a lot more comfortable for caster 2, because it can be very frustrating when the streamer doesn't move the camera where you want it, and constantly asking him to move the camera somewhere is a bad experience.

Of course it will (probably, if the streamer can handle it) mean less lag for the game, which is why we didn't even argue for 2 seconds when there was an obvious lag issue. When the game was over Mitoe immediately said he would leave the game and I was just going to ask him to do the same.

All in all I think I will always prefer casting with 2 in-game above screen share, and I might prefer solo-casting over screen share as well.

[Kickass_OP]

Undoubtedly, it was the happiest day of the kaiser's life. Sir Jack Nicholson.

[princeofkabul]

Yeah who understands breeze haha. The dude just feels dumb after saying I'd get 4-0'd and instead of admitting he was wrong he keeps calling me a cav semi bot after I literally didn't cav semi even once in 8 german games. Keep being ridiculous

Also obviously you should choose strongest strat/bo in competitive setting so I don't see why anyone would use it as insult. In current EP uhlans are nerfed so training them too much would be unwise and therefore you adapted by not training them hence the inpactful nerf. Afterall you should play for the win and not how people prefer you to play. It could be said the same about Diarouga, "such a bot going for the warrior priests fast just to utilize his warchief in midgame" Which would be just as stupid statement than calling someone "cav semi bot".

[deleted_user]

Yeah who understands breeze haha. The dude just feels dumb after saying I'd get 4-0'd and instead of admitting he was wrong he keeps calling me a cav semi bot after I literally didn't cav semi even once in 8 german games. Keep being ridiculous

Also obviously you should choose strongest strat/bo in competitive setting so I don't see why anyone would use it as insult. In current EP uhlans are nerfed so training them too much would be unwise and therefore you adapted by not training them hence the inpactful nerf. Afterall you should play for the win and not how people prefer you to play. It could be said the same about Diarouga, "such a bot going for the warrior priests fast just to utilize his warchief in midgame" Which would be just as stupid statement than calling someone "cav semi bot".

very well summarized. now consider the kynesie's situation and what makes him different from kaiser ? everyone shits on him ?

[princeofkabul]

Yeah who understands breeze haha. The dude just feels dumb after saying I'd get 4-0'd and instead of admitting he was wrong he keeps calling me a cav semi bot after I literally didn't cav semi even once in 8 german games. Keep being ridiculous

Also obviously you should choose strongest strat/bo in competitive setting so I don't see why anyone would use it as insult. In current EP uhlans are nerfed so training them too much would be unwise and therefore you adapted by not training them hence the inpactful nerf. Afterall you should play for the win and not how people prefer you to play. It could be said the same about Diarouga, "such a bot going for the warrior priests fast just to utilize his warchief in midgame" Which would be just as stupid statement than calling someone "cav semi bot".

very well summarized. now consider the kynesie's situation and what makes him different from kaiser ? everyone shits on him ?

I think it's more complex situation with kynesie, mainly because people are wondering if what he is doing is borderline broken playstyle, or something to be supported. What I think about it is rather neutral view, no doubt it takes skills to perform so well strategically and macrowise. but it also comes down to abusing the fact in aoe 3 not every civ can follow up with eco nor has the same capabilities fight over the sea as port, and maybe japan. Also I do think extensive walling gamestyle is rather unhealthy for aoe 3 for the reason mentioned above. Not only that, it also nullifies some important aspects of rts game, such as scouting and constant interaction and is leading towards more passive game style and forces the games to go on lategame. For example, when facing kynesie, you always have to choose a deck fitting to play against him and not other way around. Because walls totally stops any kind of timings and agression which you would need to perform in order to win.Even after that it is not guaranteed win if you break thru them, because the civs he plays has enormous scaling with the sea or even without.

[deleted_user]

Show hidden quotes

Where those ppl that said dia would win 4-0??

Obviously I said that, because diarouga is strategically smarter, and there is no doubt that what kaiser does is not better than samwise-h2o-bsop-königerik or any other top players did in the past. surely he is good at what he does. but it's not bringing any variety to the game. For istance he tried to play non-standard on pampas sierras game which was a big frustration for german player, if i had chance to bet again today, I would say again diarouga beats 4-0. because it won't change the fact that diarouga is better player anyway, for kaiser FANboyfriend. I would request him to not mention me with someone else's achievement then I can consider answering him.

ggs wp both

It's funny cause you always call me a cav semi bot, yet here I played 6/8 games in colonial and never went cav semi. And you still say what I do doesn't bring variety lol. I went naked ff with forward tower, which no one does. Went for some big dop cav + 8 bows timings, which isn't standard. Went bow dop, went double rax bow pike timing.
This just shows you don't know what you're talking about btw I'm quite sure diarouga himself would never claim he should win 4-0 vs me. It's obvious he shouldn't.
Funny you mention erik, both tourney series we played were really close and ended 4-3. But yeah I'm defo not close to him haha.

First. I still think you are a cav semi semi bot, nothing changed here. If you ever were good player, you would try adapting instead of crying and influencing zoi to implement unnecessary changes to improve your bot style. Also making bows shouldnt be hard for you as a player who went %90 german tower rush in nilla xD I dont think you ever understand me anyway

I don't think i am considered/consider myself a Kaiser fanboy making me able to reacte objectively to this.

First of all half of your reaction has nothing to do with the games played yesterday. By saying "If you ever were a good player you would try adapting" you confirm that Kaiser is indeed a good player because there was no cav semi in the series. Blaming him to be a cav semi bot and a xbow spammer at the same this is also a strange statement. So the problem lies with the "i still think". You have your opinion and want to let that opinion stick to the series by giving arguments that prove just the opposite. So the problem is not that someone will not understand you, the problem is you making a contradictionary statement based on games outsude this series.


Anyway, was a great series to watch, a bit unlucky in game 3, last game with the explorer was crazy. Congrats to Kaiser but i'll be rooting for spain in the final (because as the noob i am, i didn't figure out how to change the default nation and got stuck playing spain for months back in the day)

you basicly stucked on a Word "cav semi bot" ( which was actually used by kaiser after that I approved ) and making "Objective" analogy from one word. I dont think you have bad intentions but there is a reason for calling like that. He is known for going strictly similar build orders and regardless of them being good-bad, just blames the game-balance-map hunts lag or w.e you can imagine simply because what he expects is to win everygame because of having a good "micro" so he just starts being toxic when he loses. Also my word wasn't meaning yesterday if you see the whole messages you will see.

[sebnan12]

and they say this aint a competitive scene. frikin nerd mania

[SoldieR]

Fanboy? I just choose the lesser of two rude people Haha. (And German player)

[Gafur]

Damn Kaiser should really be hatin Turks right now. I feel bad

[Kaiserklein]

Small analysis of the series, trying to show how we both played bad in lots of games.

[spoiler=spoiler]Game 1: only game where I didn't really make mistakes I think. Diarouga lost 2 vils and tried to push just after taking 4 tps stagecoach, a mistake I punished. I did manage to let 10+ maces without anti cav escape though lol.

Game 2: I just played really bad. After failing the nat stuff I could have been okayish if I actually herded and spent my 700w. Diarouga reacted well overall.

Game 3: I thought diarouga would go for a timing so I went for a quick ff. In fact he rushed so I was not in a very good spot. He was imo ahead when he dropped, though it wasn't over.
Game 3 again: diarouga lets me do my build without really pressuring so he loses to my timing. I fucked up and called mm late, stacking 500f, and dops attacking his maces, but it was still a rather scary timing so I won.

Game 4: I randomly decided he'd rush and didn't scout anything. Went double rax for nothing, and tried to push but it was too late obviously. Then had dops attacking wps instead of fighting lol. Diarouga defended well, though he lost vils cause he walled up too late.

Game 5: diarouga mind gamed me with vils on firepit, so I was going for naked ff like in game 7. When I saw the warhut I adapted into colonial, but a bit late, which hurt my mass (also wasted 200w on 2nd tp). Was still okay after first fight where we traded armies, until I decided to z move dops on maces and uhlans on pumas, losing the fight despite having 20 more military pop...

Game 6: diarouga rushes instead of containing, I hold so I'm ahead with my greedy build. I lose a sw because I suck. I aim for a timing push right when I'm out of food to get as much stuff out as possible, while diarouga has a low mass after rushing. Then he fights my 50 bows in trees and loses.

Game 7: this time I make sure he's wp booming and I go naked ff. It hard counters his build especially since he delayed the age up with 5 pumas, I have time for 2 unit shipments to come to his base before he's even fortress. I could win the game with my 15ish vet uhlans and 8 skirms by pushing the firepit, but I keep attacking the mm and warchief because I'm bad, so my uhlan mass slowly dies. Luckily he sucks in his turn and wastes his wps and some vils to a big uhlan reinforcement instead of sitting in the tc, so my push still pays off. Then I'm just ahead and win despite having to deal with the broken warchief because I have total mapcontrol, good eco and good military upgrades.[/spoiler]

[[Armag] diarouga]

Those who said 4-0 diarouga have no clue about the MU. It's objectively a hard one and would be harder if Kaiser was more of raid player. But anyway he has good micro so it makes 80% of aztec strata unsuccessful in this MU.
I didnt watch the games carefully but I think it was worth trying coyo+puma (+mace) in atleast one of them.

Kaiser went dopp in most games so no. But yea, the MU is hard for Aztecs.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Small analysis of the series, trying to show how we both played bad in lots of games.

Game 1: only game where I didn't really make mistakes I think. Diarouga lost 2 vils and tried to push just after taking 4 tps stagecoach, a mistake I punished. I did manage to let 10+ maces without anti cav escape though lol.

Well, to be fair, I thought that you had a plan to counter the stagecoach boom. Waiting at home while I take the TP line doesn't make a lot of sense so I assumed you were going for a semi ff. Thing is you cannot scout in this MU as Aztecs because of uhlans so you have to make blind calls, and here it was a bad one.
In fact, I didn't even commit, just tried to see what was going on but I got snared.

Game 2: I just played really bad. After failing the nat stuff I could have been okayish if I actually herded and spent my 700w. Diarouga reacted well overall.

Yea, that game was really bad.

Game 3: I thought diarouga would go for a timing so I went for a quick ff. In fact he rushed so I was not in a very good spot. He was imo ahead when he dropped, though it wasn't over.

Yea, it was probably 60% for me.

Game 3 again: diarouga lets me do my build without really pressuring so he loses to my timing. I fucked up and called mm late, stacking 500f, and dops attacking his maces, but it was still a rather scary timing so I won.

I went for the standard Aztec build. Thing is, this MU is hopeless on 200w start because Germany can get so much. I could have played better of course, but tbh I can't really be blamed for losing to Germany on 200w start.

Game 4: I randomly decided he'd rush and didn't scout anything. Went double rax for nothing, and tried to push but it was too late obviously. Then had dops attacking wps instead of fighting lol. Diarouga defended well, though he lost vils cause he walled up too late.

Yea, that sums it up.

Game 5: diarouga mind gamed me with vils on firepit, so I was going for naked ff like in game 7. When I saw the warhut I adapted into colonial, but a bit late, which hurt my mass (also wasted 200w on 2nd tp). Was still okay after first fight where we traded armies, until I decided to z move dops on maces and uhlans on pumas, losing the fight despite having 20 more military pop...

Yea.

Game 6: diarouga rushes instead of containing, I hold so I'm ahead with my greedy build. I lose a sw because I suck. I aim for a timing push right when I'm out of food to get as much stuff out as possible, while diarouga has a low mass after rushing. Then he fights my 50 bows in trees and loses.

To be fair, it's the only game where I really played bad. I made mistakes in the other games, but since I had to play blindly because of the way this MU works I can't really be blamed, this one however was unacceptable. My plan was initially to go for a 10 wp semi like in game 4 and win because I can hold age 2 timings (like in game 4) and semi ff without TP isn't an option.

Game 7: this time I make sure he's wp booming and I go naked ff. It hard counters his build especially since he delayed the age up with 5 pumas, I have time for 2 unit shipments to come to his base before he's even fortress. I could win the game with my 15ish vet uhlans and 8 skirms by pushing the firepit, but I keep attacking the mm and warchief because I'm bad, so my uhlan mass slowly dies. Luckily he sucks in his turn and wastes his wps and some vils to a big uhlan reinforcement instead of sitting in the tc, so my push still pays off. Then I'm just ahead and win despite having to deal with the broken warchief because I have total mapcontrol, good eco and good military upgrades.
Yea, I could have won this game if I didn't lose the wp. I needed to get the resources to age though which is why I made that mistake

Overall I think that except in game 6 where I played like a noob, I played fine, but as I said, you have to make blind decisions in this MU because there's literally no way you can scout (which is something the twitch chat probably can't understand), so I ended up taking some bad decisions.

[Kaiserklein]

1) Well I did have a plan to counter the stagecoach, it was a colo timing push. Going age 3 could work but it might give you too much time. I know what you mean, you weren't sure what I was doing, but my point is that going to my base with your army when you just stagecoached is risky. Anyway was unlucky for you to be there right when I hit my timing.

3) Yeah wood start is huge for ger, but my point is that you shipped units early on (I think?) and didn't achieve much with them, while I was able to go 3 sw 700w 700g 8 bows which is the dream colonial timing for germany. If you forced me to ship 8 bows earlier, or sieged more houses or something like that, it would have been harder for me. But I know it's hard to do that without overcommitting, need more puma I guess, to be safe.

6) Yeah I expected you to go less aggressive on cascade. Obviously it's the map where I'll be the fastest cause the resources are low so I gotta push early, and I can't really go fortress. Rushing is kind of playing into my hands then. I expected either a contain or a wp boom, both would suck for me.

[[Armag] diarouga]

1) Well I did have a plan to counter the stagecoach, it was a colo timing push. Going age 3 could work but it might give you too much time. I know what you mean, you weren't sure what I was doing, but my point is that going to my base with your army when you just stagecoached is risky. Anyway was unlucky for you to be there right when I hit my timing.

It was definitely risky, but waiting at my warhut was risky too because an age 3 would kill me then. I made a mistake here but I was sure you were aging before I lost my army because colonial timing on my warhut was going to fail if I contained.

3) Yeah wood start is huge for ger, but my point is that you shipped units early on (I think?) and didn't achieve much with them, while I was able to go 3 sw 700w 700g 8 bows which is the dream colonial timing for germany. If you forced me to ship 8 bows earlier, or sieged more houses or something like that, it would have been harder for me. But I know it's hard to do that without overcommitting, need more puma I guess, to be safe.

Well, if I don't send these unit shipments you can just age and win. Like in the game where I dropped, if I had sent 5 vills instead of a unit shipment I would have been in a losing position. There's really not much you can do against wood start Germany because he's going to have more stuff at any point of the game, and more eco.

6) Yeah I expected you to go less aggressive on cascade. Obviously it's the map where I'll be the fastest cause the resources are low so I gotta push early, and I can't really go fortress. Rushing is kind of playing into my hands then. I expected either a contain or a wp boom, both would suck for me.
Yea, this was awful, not even pr30 play. My point is that while it's true that you mismicroed a bit in these games, game 6 is the only game where I really played bad, other games were okish given the situation.

[bwinner]

I think game 3 restart was gold start and not wood si we can blame you @Diarouga

[princeofkabul]

out of curiosity, why did you keep building houses in front of your base against aztec the entire series? @Kaiserklein

[Kaiserklein]

Cause I played bad, was too busy trying to not suck too much to even think about that kind of stuff

[Mitoe]

Was a lot of fun to cast this with @Mitoe and a very entertaining chat with lots of new subs, thanks all.

Interesting how 5 out of 7 games end at the 11/12 minute mark.

That happens when 6/7 games play out in Colonial.

5 out of 8*
Also while it may be fun for the viewers, playing a MU where only one strat ils viable is definitely not fun.

It would be 7 out of 8 in that case, because 1 person always stayed full Colonial