Thar Desert Clarification

[Mr_Bramboy]

Hey everyone,

Lately there has been some discussion about a possible bug in Thar Desert, which is in the tournament map pool. Specifically, the bug involved buildings not being built at the same speed as usual in certain situations. See this clip for an example:

After a series of investigations by our developers, we can safely say that this is not a bug involving the map and that Thar Desert will therefore not be replaced in the map pool.

We initially suspected that the elevation in Thar Desert may have been the reason for this bug. It seemed possible that a difference in elevation was somehow causing buildings to be built more slowly. One of the UHC project developers, Kevsoft, has just found the cause. It is an edge case bug in the engine that has to do with multiple villagers being tasked to build, while the main one cancels their plan in an unusual way. It has nothing to do with terrain elevation or Thar Desert.

To quote our developer @EAGLEMUT talking about this specific clip:

In this instance, it is because the main vill supposed to go build the foundation was abruptly garrisoned in TC. When you watch the clip rec, it can be a bit hard to notice. The main vill is actually building an entirely different wall on the other side of TC, but of course once that's finished, the vill wants to go around the TC and build the part that we see bug out. Meanwhile, the player is queueing actions for another vill that he actually intends to build the wall with and which we eventually see building it super slowly. The building goes up at the speed which a second vill normally adds, but the "main" first vill is actually missing because that vill is in TC.

This is still a bug that might occur, but it's not a Thar Desert-exclusive bug, to the possible dismay of some players ..

Players might be able to play around this bug and our developers will look at ways to implement a fix, but this is quite a complex bug.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Still, it's a shit map so we should remove it.

[deleted_user]

There is also something that might be related dunno if it's a bug but if you task 8 vills to a building (like a market or wonder when you're getting rushed) or 4 for an outpost and bell them, then try to pop another vill out which wasn't one of the original 8/4 it won't build. Game will say "only 8 villagers can build X at a time" even though there are no vills graphically building it. And because the TC always pops out the last garrisoned vill, you just can't ever build it without ungarissoning all and finding the correct vills.

[Kevsoft]

Game will say "only 8 villagers can build X at a time" even though there are no vills graphically building it.

Yea, this is completely related the to that the other bug. The thing is that each building as an additional counter on how many vills work on a building. Now if you put vills into outpost/TCs or hit the bell, then this "build action" will enter a "suspend" state, meaning that it will continue after the new action (for example the bell action) has been finished. Even if that action is in the suspended state, it will still count as active working unit on that building.

Regarding the other bug here is a quick way to reproduce it:
1.) Create a new skirmish game
2.) Take two vills to make a building (i.e. market)
3.) Put one of the vills, (the one who is first at the building) into the TC
4.) BOOM, slow-mode building

To get an understanding why that happens: The base building construction rate is 1.0 and for any additional vill the construction rate is at 0.3 (defined in civs.xml). So if 4 vills work on a building we have a rate of 1.0 + 0.3 + 0.3 + 0.3 = 1.9.

If you now have only two vills (1.0 + 0.3) and put the first vill into the TC/Outpost then, again, we enter suspend state for the first vill and it still counts as active builder. The second vill still continues to work at a rate of 0.3.

[Kaiserklein]

Damn that's a nasty bug, I also had it on Thar, stupid coincidence. I don't remember garrisoning vils though, but I think the shift click bugged so the first vil didn't actually start building the market, and the next vils I tasked built it extremely slowly

[deleted_user0]

How about fixing the trees? Seem to spawn unfair.

[Hazza54321]

you know a map is bad when everyone complains about the fucking starting trees

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea, just an awful map.

[Mitoe]

Damn that's a nasty bug, I also had it on Thar, stupid coincidence. I don't remember garrisoning vils though, but I think the shit click bugged so the first vil didn't actually start building the market, and the next vils I tasked built it extremely slowly

It's usually when they sort of do it on their own. Kind of like how sometimes vills will garrison themselves inside a blockhouse after it's done building even though you shift clicked them to do something else--and then they don't appear as idle either. It's that type of bug.

Somehow they have to get garrisoned but still have the tasks queued while they're garrisoned.


Thar Desert is a good map lol. I really fail to see how the trees are an issue on this map 95% of the time. If it's a problem it's because you're not playing the map correctly. You have to build your base in a way that you shield some additional resources (hunts/mines) already, which sort of means forgoing some of the defense players are used to having from the Town Center. As a result of doing this you already secure your trees (which by the way are really not even further away than comparable maps like Florida, Arizona, Arkansas, etc.).

[Hazza54321]

the map itself is ok , just trees really and the elifent hunt needs to be a lil closer

[Mitoe]

Would be nice if the elephant hunts were always 4, instead of sometimes 3 and sometimes 4. It actually removes quite a bit of food from the map. Maybe 2 or 3 trees spawning next to the TC would be a good QoL change as well, but I don't think the locations of the tree clumps need any major changes.

[Kaiserklein]

I think the problem with starting trees is that it adds too much walking time in age 1. Which hurts some civs too much.
Other than that I really like the map

[Frost Bite]

How about fixing the trees? Seem to spawn unfair.

It is a desert, kind sire. Do not expect the mother nature to be kind on the players.

[Mitoe]

I think the problem with starting trees is that it adds too much walking time in age 1. Which hurts some civs too much.
Other than that I really like the map

Herd the hunt towards your trees then herd them back. It actually amazes me how no one has learned to do this with India especially yet on literally any map.

[Aizamk]

I think the problem with starting trees is that it adds too much walking time in age 1. Which hurts some civs too much.
Other than that I really like the map

Herd the hunt towards your trees then herd them back. It actually amazes me how no one has learned to do this with India especially yet on literally any map.

Mitoe you're supposed to be sleeping

[Mitoe]

I think the problem with starting trees is that it adds too much walking time in age 1. Which hurts some civs too much.
Other than that I really like the map

Herd the hunt towards your trees then herd them back. It actually amazes me how no one has learned to do this with India especially yet on literally any map.

Mitoe you're supposed to be sleeping

I can't, I'm foolishly staying awake to watch an tournament for a game I don't even play

[Kaiserklein]

I think the problem with starting trees is that it adds too much walking time in age 1. Which hurts some civs too much.
Other than that I really like the map

Herd the hunt towards your trees then herd them back. It actually amazes me how no one has learned to do this with India especially yet on literally any map.

I know but that works only with india basically, other civs don't chop enough wood to do that. Typically as germany, gl with settler wagons walking till the limit of TC los to chop, or to herd the hunt towards the trees or w/e. Sometimes feels like it forces you to just not make a market regardless of your crates start which is a bit sad.

[kami_ryu]

Show hidden quotes

I think the problem with starting trees is that it adds too much walking time in age 1. Which hurts some civs too much.
Other than that I really like the map

Herd the hunt towards your trees then herd them back. It actually amazes me how no one has learned to do this with India especially yet on literally any map.

Mitoe you're supposed to be sleeping

I can't, I'm foolishly staying awake to watch an tournament for a game I don't even play

Fools lead cooler lives.

[aligator92]

So this bug only appears only if the vill is garrisoned?
If I start building a rax with two vills and then decide to send the first vill hunting instead, it will be fine?

[yemshi]

Yes.