NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

gibson wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:That's an old debate but he didn't use the maphack as such, just the oos fonction against moesbar cheaters in QS which is not an issue at all.
Sure buddy whatever you say

I believe that. I myself did the same back then.
Oosing moesbar when there are monster trucks in your base at 30sec isn't cheating.
And you do need to have it on your deskop, else he kills you before you oos.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:Wouldn't it be fair to make a wildcard qualification for people who lost in the last round?

I mean, tabben losing to risi, winning lukas 3-2 and beating captain slayer osmane doesn't really feel deserved xD

I guess it's top late but I agree.
Likewise erik should have to play against turk.


Tabben shouldve replayed vs wicked and soldier tho.

Why? He got an easy bracket, that's it.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by pecelot »

using hacks only in certain circumstances may always raise suspicions that one may not be able to contain themselves and be humble enough not to use them on any other occasion...
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Good work

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Post by giveuanxiety »

Hey guys, I obvious heard and read through the kynesie/tit cheat confirmation topic. I was unable to watch the stream live and just re watched the last game.I'm impressed and happy with the aoe3 community, specifically Kaiser, Soldier and Interjection. I saw at one point Kaiser posted that he shouldn't have made the cheat accusations in twitch chat. I honestly disagree, this was happening quickly in real time so any intervention or investigation would have to happen quickly and basically every minute counted to find out the truth, so you cant just put it aside for later. It started with a major red flag of tit restarting saying it was for sound bug and then his hc just happens to jump to a new civ. The average twitch viewer and even aoe3 member wouldn't catch this red flag. Kasier being a vet did and played a major role in bringing this to everyone attention. Without this we may have never found out the truth. Then people requesting IP check was obviously smart, further more somp checking stats to see that Tit has very few port games played in the last 7 years, increased suspicion. Soldier doing a good job, when all this was at its peak with twitch chat demanding IP check and the play style looking exactly like Kynesie. Soldier starts to brings up the point but then bits his tongue. Obvious smart for him to not finish that thought but also smart in a way to almost bring it up. Interjection as the primary caster does a perfect role of just not acknowledging it at all and continuing with the cast. I'm sure it wasn't easy for the casters either as they were prob getting spammed with pm's and seeing twitch chat, but they handled it great.

Obviously I'm disappointing by Tit and Kynesie, and I always enjoy watching Kynesie game play. However if you look in the past these 2 players always had a grey area of what could be though of as cheating/abuse gameplay. Kynesie: for years had some special hotkey or something that would auto delete wall pillers as they were placed, the game would also always lag at times that seemed very convenient for him. It would lag when he is getting pushed and needs more time to apply apm for walls or when fights start. Tit: Also seems to have these strategic lag times in his gameplay for years, I remeber someone bringing up that he had a treasure abuse bug, where it would like make him get treasure contentions far more often that he should. I remember feeling this personally and never wanting to play vs him cause I'd always feel I start a tres first and he always gets the treasures. Also the fact he would stream with custom UI that had market buy and sell button on it making it easier to buy and sell resources. These players always were a bit on the suspicious side and after this it obviously just confirms this further.
Lasol wrote: :hmm: just Saw a YouTube video with giveyouanexiaty. He Said check youre stove, if you Want to improve youre aoe3 skills.

WHAT does check your stove means? And how do you do it?
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Riotcoke »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
umeu wrote:
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Tabben shouldve replayed vs wicked and soldier tho.

Why? He got an easy bracket, that's it.


He's not top 8, it's unfair to let a player through by pure luck when you have wicked and soldier in the same position as him
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Riotcoke wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Why? He got an easy bracket, that's it.


He's not top 8, it's unfair to let a player through by pure luck when you have wicked and soldier in the same position as him

It's unfair but that's how luck works.
In the New Year Classic hazza got an extremely easy bracket so he reached the finals easily, nothing you can do.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by GiBthedurrty »

tabben deserves to go through.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Kaiserklein »

It's not just that tabben had an easy bracket. He just didn't actually qualify to the lan. Even worse, he was out of tourney already.
But it's the easiest and fastest solution probably.

GiBthedurrty wrote:tabben deserves to go through.

No, not more than soldier or wicked. Not less either, ofc.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by lemmings121 »

tabben ro8 player confirmed.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by kami_ryu »

lol wow

well I could post a rant but at this point it would not help anything. who will be going to the LAN in their stead?
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Riotcoke »

kami_ryu wrote:lol wow

well I could post a rant but at this point it would not help anything. who will be going to the LAN in their stead?


Tabben and Erik
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Goodspeed »

Tabben Kynesie was 4-3. I think he deserves it.
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Re: Integrity and Fair Play

Post by Jaeger »

Mitoe wrote:Very few, if any, I would say. Especially in tournaments.

I think cheating is more apparent to observers and other players than your post implies.

Not saying that I believe anybody cheats, but I think a small resouce trickle at 10 minutes in the game is very hard to spot
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Re: Integrity and Fair Play

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

ovi12 wrote:
Mitoe wrote:Very few, if any, I would say. Especially in tournaments.

I think cheating is more apparent to observers and other players than your post implies.

Not saying that I believe anybody cheats, but I think a small resouce trickle at 10 minutes in the game is very hard to spot

Resource trickle doesn't exist.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by XeeleeFlower »

It's not like Kynesie absolutely wiped the floor with Tabben. Losing 3-4 is pretty damn good considering Tabben's lack of experience (I'm not trying to be insulting here, Tabben just doesn't have as much tourney experience, specifically versus playstyles like Kynesie's). I'm sure he's learned a lot and will practice a lot prior to the LAN.

Edit: @Goodspeed stop posting my thoughts before I have a chance to complete them.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Imperial Noob »

idea.JPG
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by kami_ryu »

Tabben and Erik are great players for a LAN. I can't wait to watch the Ro8 onwards.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Goodspeed »

XeeleeFlower wrote:It's not like Kynesie absolutely wiped the floor with Tabben. Losing 3-4 is pretty damn good considering Tabben's lack of experience (I'm not trying to be insulting here, Tabben just doesn't have as much tourney experience, specifically versus playstyles like Kynesie's). I'm sure he's learned a lot and will practice a lot prior to the LAN.

Edit: @Goodspeed stop posting my thoughts before I have a chance to complete them.
Yeah he probably would've done better against standard play.

It's funny because I later realized I forgot to add that point to my post but then I decided not to edit because the thread moves too fast. You might've been first had I actually finished the post properly before clicking submit. But who does that?
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Kaiserklein »

It's not about the score or the experience or some other subjective stuff. You don't know how well soldier or wicked would have performed vs kynesie anyway. Maybe they'd have won?
It's about the fact that all 3 of tabben, wicked and soldier LOST their qualification match. Tabben just like the others. He doesn't deserve to go through more or less than the other two, he's basically just lucky the guy who beat him got dq'd. The obvious solution would be to have the 3 of them play each other and get the winner to the lan, but it's not practical since escape has to book flights asap I guess.
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Re: Integrity and Fair Play

Post by Jaeger »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Mitoe wrote:Very few, if any, I would say. Especially in tournaments.

I think cheating is more apparent to observers and other players than your post implies.

Not saying that I believe anybody cheats, but I think a small resouce trickle at 10 minutes in the game is very hard to spot

Resource trickle doesn't exist.

I don't know what exists, but I imagine there must be some small stuff you can do that would be very hard to spot
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by samwise12 »

Imperial Noob wrote:
idea.JPG


i'm actually gutted i didnt comeback sooner and practise for this tournament, the LAN is going to be sick. To me all this drama just adds even more excitement to the tournament!!
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by kami_ryu »

umm, where can I watch the VODs of the games played so far? There aren't very many here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ_kLQ6r9tc
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Goodspeed »

Kaiserklein wrote:It's not about the score or the experience or some other subjective stuff. You don't know how well soldier or wicked would have performed vs kynesie anyway. Maybe they'd have won?
It's about the fact that all 3 of tabben, wicked and soldier LOST their qualification match. Tabben just like the others. He doesn't deserve to go through more or less than the other two. The obvious solution would be to have the 3 of them play each other and get the winner to the lan, but it's not practical since escape has to book flights asap I guess.
You say it's not about subjective stuff but if you look at it purely objectively, when a player is DQ'd for any reason his opponent moves on to the next round. This has always been the case in the history of tournaments in every game, not just AoE3. It's not at all custom, and highly impractical, to redo your entire bracket just because 1 guy got DQ'd.

To illustrate: Why would WC and Soldier get another chance and not Aiz, who lost to Prince but may have beaten WC? Or iamturk, who lost only to Titnesie and Kynesie and actually beat Prince in the upper bracket?
Because this is not a round robin event and not everyone plays each other. Single elim and to a lesser extent double elim is by design unfair this way. If you get lucky and your opponent gets DQ'd, you move on.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by XeeleeFlower »

kami_ryu wrote:umm, where can I watch the VODs of the games played so far? There aren't very many here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ_kLQ6r9tc
You can watch them on Escape's Twitch channel here: https://www.twitch.tv/escapeaoe/videos
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Re: Integrity and Fair Play

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

ovi12 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Resource trickle doesn't exist.

I don't know what exists, but I imagine there must be some small stuff you can do that would be very hard to spot

From my experience (I was well aware of what you could do and what you couldn't do 2 years ago), you can :
- maphack. It's the hardest thing to spot but with first person pov rec you can spot it.
- spawn stuffs (treasures, resources, trees, bisons, units...), which is super obvious in a casted game.
- Send the same shipment multiple times (like advanced market twice), but again, that's so obvious.
- Send any shipment instantly at any age, but that's of course obvious.

Honestly, I can't think of a way to cheat which wouldn't get spotted in a tournament.

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