NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Australia Kawapasaka
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Kawapasaka »

t3rror1sta wrote:Must agree with Kaiser.

Tabben, Whicked, Soldier and Snoww. Fighting to the death for 2 seats on the plane in a huge FFA map.

Or 2 FFA. Who wins the first and the second goes to manchester.


Large GP FFA as a tournament qualifier, just imagine...

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Greece BrookG
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by BrookG »

I don't see why Wicked or Soldier should have another chance. The other brackets should stay unaffected, the players there all completed normally their games. If anything Tit's bracket could potentially be replayed, but we decided not to do it, due to time shortage and rough scheduling among others. We aren't favouring tabben, who barely lost to kynesie, but kynesie made the decision to get involved in this way in that last game. If suddenly Soldier and Wicked, who lost their games, had another chance to get their spot in top8, would that be fair to their opponents? Could they have a say on that?
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Re: Integrity and Fair Play

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Post by zoom »

Cometk wrote:
zoom wrote:I wonder if banning either player indefinitely is consistent with past cheating sanctions. I also wonder if banning Kynesie from the continued event is. These are relevant questions, as they pertain to certain rules that must be consistently and fairly applied. I recall finding past decisions – in identical or similar cases – lenient, by comparison

There is precedent for this decision.

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
zoom wrote:I wonder if banning either player indefinitely is consistent with past cheating sanctions. I also wonder if banning Kynesie from the continued event is. These are relevant questions, as they pertain to certain rules that must be consistently and fairly applied. I recall finding past decisions – in identical or similar cases – lenient, by comparison

As I'm sure you're aware, 'indefinitely' simply means 'until further notice'. The last smurfing case before this one that I can recall would be the Butifle and Sir_Musket controversy. Both players were banned indefinitely in the first place. Butifle was unbanned after half a year and Sir_Musket remains banned due to this, among with other incidents. There will be discussions in the following days about the definite length of the bans. Compared to the Butifle and Sir_Musket case, the scale and impact of this incident is much bigger. We will attempt to hand down consistent bans in line with previous cheating incidents, and we strive to treat each player fairly.
Outstanding.

I only remain concerned about ESOC moderating deleting my post saying "Does ESOC shit in the woods?". I'm aware that ESOC moderating knows neither humor, nor proportionality, nor restraint, but that is disgusting and pathetic, all the same. Is it even accordance with the site's own rules? Perhaps the rules are so broadly and vaguely written ESOC moderating could get away with literal murder...
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Sargsyan »

Yeah i think tabben should qualify, thats just the way it is
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Kaiserklein »

Too lazy to keep arguing this. I just dislike the idea of a player going to lan without having qualified, that's all. It's not legit.
While having the 3 of them playing each other would be a sort of qualification. But whatever it's not gonna change anyway
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by lesllamas »

Also 3 player round robins can go insanely long if it shakes out like rock / paper / scissors. You have to wait until one player wins two matches in a row, basically, so it’s really hard to quantify the time investment and have players plan time in their schedules for it.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Sargsyan »

If you want a perfectly balanced qualification you should play league where all the players play each other and gain points just like they do it in football, but as you may have already guessed it will take ages, and it doesn't matter who tabben lost to, he went far enough to play kynesie who got disqualified.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Cometk »

@Sargsyan a swiss format was considered for the NWC qualifiers months ago, but the idea was dropped as it's too hard to efficiently organize online
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by bobabu »

Honestly the people who lost to Kynesie shouldn't get a round robin. Only the players that lost to Tit Bwinner, Garja and Iamturk should get a chance if they were cheated on .


Maybe coin flip for a ninth spot with these three in the stack.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Jerimuno »

tabben lost to kynesie and kynesie got disqualified, so tabben gets the admin win and as a result goes through to the ro8. i don't see a problem here at all, this is the most logical and natural conclusion
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by bobabu »

Jerimuno wrote:tabben lost to kynesie and kynesie got disqualified, so tabben gets the admin win and as a result goes through to the ro8. i don't see a problem here at all, this is the most logical and natural conclusion

Absolutely. So should snowww. Also the players that lost to kynesie lost fair and square. But @Garja a, @iamturk rk might got cheated on just remember the drama. So they should fight for a ninth spot.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by gibson »

We dont know they got cheated on, in fact its likely that they didn't.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by aligator92 »

Good god...12 pages in 20 hours...Very sad thing to see but props to the admins/staff for handling this in the best possible way
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by fightinfrenchman »

aligator92 wrote:Good god...12 pages in 20 hours...Very sad thing to see but props to the admins/staff for handling this in the best possible way


Hopefully they'll handle #modtheear in the best possible way too
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Sargsyan »

Ear should definitely become a mod so that everyone can see how terrible of a mod he could be
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by JackSparrow_IB »

so stupid, they could use VPN at least :lol:
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Re: Integrity and Fair Play

Post by Vinyanyérë »

bobabu wrote:
Vinyanyérë wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:



Well at the time it was never my intention to progress in the tournament. We just wanted to troll Wicked. And Hazza is a good mate of Wicked. It was at an earlier stage of the tournament and the games were lost. And we informed Wicked about the smurf in the aftermath. So the consequences weren't as harsh. Because it was intended as a joke.

It's an obvious gamble. The event will not bring any profits for the investor family. They are speculating that Age of Empires 4 will be big. And having an established platform as a first mover could give them the momentum. So you shouldn't be hailing them for what they are doing. With every investment there's a, I would, however, hail the people that worked for this community all these years for free.


To be clear I brought up your case to show that smurfing in a tournament = minimum penalty of DQ for both players regardless of underlying reasons, since I wasn't sure if everyone was aware of that. I'm also not really making the claim that EscapeAoE is made up of good people doing good things - in fact, it's because they're beholden to other interests besides pure unbridled passion for AoE3 that I'm bringing it up. What happens during NWC 2019 has an impact on the chance that we'd see, for instance, NWC 2020.

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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by lesllamas »

FWIW based on how brackets work letting tabben through is not standard. With a DQ after the tabben v kynesie match had been played, normally the next spot in the bracket kynesie WOULD have moved on to would have just been a bye. Those spots aren’t traditionally filled at all. However, with a situation where a fill is required for other reasons (people attending the LAN which has already been planned) admins just have to make a choice. No matter what choice is made there’s going to be some irregularities that seem unfair to someone because the fair and regular way of handling it just isn’t possible. I don’t think the decision to let tabben through is a result of any favoritism or ulterior motives, so IMO everyone should be okay with the decision.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Charlesh »

That really good for @tabben
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Dolan »

Yeh, I agree with what Kaiser said, qualification shouldn't be automatic, matches should be played between the three. It's not because, as a viewer, I'd like more content, they can even play without being streamed. But getting qualified as a result of someone else's disqualification sounds weird, especially for a LAN event. Typically, you should work hard for a spot.
I don't think this would create major issues, there's plenty of time until July.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by bobabu »

@Vinyanyérë I totally agree. It was the right thing to do, to disqualify us.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by AraGun »

Why take the spot away from kynesie he was already qualified. Just replay last game if its only one that he smurfed on. Move on tabben shouldnt get a chance he already lost. Only snoww was cheated here not tabben.
ESOC has forgiven worst things than this let it serve as a lesson that from here on out people will get perma banned. But to do this now is a bit harsh considering ESO community's past with real cheating and hackers like sirmusket :hehe:
If you dont let kynesie compete than he could have been the real LAN champ and it will haunt us for the rest of history. No one here can lame water at his level thats going to the LAN. Kynesie wanted his bro tit to qualify so they could have meetup in Manchester so he tried to help him win. This is cheating but not the same as resource hacking or some more serious type of cheat. He should be flogged in person and not DQ'd in pixels. Inter can think of some sort of punishment for him in the LAN im sure.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by gh0st »

lol
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by XeeleeFlower »

Dolan wrote:Yeh, I agree with what Kaiser said, qualification shouldn't be automatic, matches should be played between the three. It's not because, as a viewer, I'd like more content..... there's plenty of time until July.
As a viewer, I would certainly appreciate more content, so I demand that matches between the 3 should be played. But yeah, there really isn't that much time until July. We're 7 weeks away from the LAN. Prices increase. Hotel availability decreases.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Garja »

AraGun wrote:Why take the spot away from kynesie he was already qualified. Just replay last game if its only one that he smurfed on. Move on tabben shouldnt get a chance he already lost. Only snoww was cheated here not tabben.
ESOC has forgiven worst things than this let it serve as a lesson that from here on out people will get perma banned. But to do this now is a bit harsh considering ESO community's past with real cheating and hackers like sirmusket :hehe:
If you dont let kynesie compete than he could have been the real LAN champ and it will haunt us for the rest of history. No one here can lame water at his level thats going to the LAN. Kynesie wanted his bro tit to qualify so they could have meetup in Manchester so he tried to help him win. This is cheating but not the same as resource hacking or some more serious type of cheat. He should be flogged in person and not DQ'd in pixels. Inter can think of some sort of punishment for him in the LAN im sure.

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