NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

[EAGLEMUT]

@AraGun given the stakes, I would dare to claim this is the most serious infraction in the history of competitive AoE3. And you're asking for a warning to the cheaters, seriously?

Furthermore, you can't play on the EP with a custom UI.

You can. Well, unless it's moesbar.

Will it be announced for how long Tit and kynesie are banned or will they stay banned "indefinitely"?
I think it would be good to announce for how long they are banned, since it sets a precedent for the future and it's clear when they can join tournaments again.

They will stay banned indefinitely until further notice. I wouldn't expect that position to change soon - possibly ever, if they show no remorse and continue attempting to cheat.

[fightinfrenchman]

Looking forward to parodying their inevitable apology posts

[Warno]

Pretty sad to see... and really dumb from Kynesie's pov.

There should be some guidelines made for cheating and each type of cheating to eliminate grey areas.
Also, there should be guidelines made for who advances when someone gets DQ'd.
As sad as it is, it will most likely happen again.


Kudos to the streamers for handling it so well and to Kaiser for starting the witch hunt.

[sisinobubles]

I really hope kynesie apologizes and keeps competing in tournaments, it'd be a shame to lose such a good player.

[fightinfrenchman]

I really like kynesie's style of play and was cheering him on during his games, but I won't ever trust him if he plays in any future tournaments.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Why take the spot away from kynesie he was already qualified. Just replay last game if its only one that he smurfed on. Move on tabben shouldnt get a chance he already lost. Only snoww was cheated here not tabben.
ESOC has forgiven worst things than this let it serve as a lesson that from here on out people will get perma banned. But to do this now is a bit harsh considering ESO community's past with real cheating and hackers like sirmusket
If you dont let kynesie compete than he could have been the real LAN champ and it will haunt us for the rest of history. No one here can lame water at his level thats going to the LAN. Kynesie wanted his bro tit to qualify so they could have meetup in Manchester so he tried to help him win. This is cheating but not the same as resource hacking or some more serious type of cheat. He should be flogged in person and not DQ'd in pixels. Inter can think of some sort of punishment for him in the LAN im sure.

No.

[nimanoe]

They will stay banned indefinitely until further notice. I wouldn't expect that position to change soon - possibly ever, if they show no remorse and continue attempting to cheat.

Thanks for the reply!

I'm not really familiar with this community (I come from AoE2), so maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be better to ban them for a set amount of time (or x amount of tournaments)? That way everyone knows what's up with the situation and the players can decide if it's worth for them to continue playing. When they are banned for an undefined amount of time (possibly forever) I don't think there is much incentive for them to stick around as there future is really unsure. I think it would also be good to have a precedent for future cases, so before they commit to something like this they roughly know the punishment. Also having a set punishment would prevent anyone from saying that the admins are biased in favor or against any of the players, if this happens again and the players get a different punishment.

In CS:GO there was a team that got banned for match-fixing and they got banned for an indefinite time as well, this leaves the whole community unsure about the future of the players and every month or so their is another cry from the community to Valve to unban them. I think most people in the community would agree that Valve handled the case pretty poorly and should have set an amount of time that they were banned or should've banned them forever. Since then, the tournament organizers have come together with players and made a rulebook that says that match-fixing or cheating will result in a 2-year ban. This is widely regarded as a good change, just because it gives clarity to everyone: the players know they are allowed to play again after 2 years and can act accordingly, the fans know and won't have to keep protesting to unban players and the tournament organizers won't get backfire for allowing the players to return to early or for not allowing them to return.

Now, this scene isn't nearly as big as CS:GO, but I think it's a good example of why clarity regarding this issue is better for everyone.

[fightinfrenchman]

When they are banned for an undefined amount of time (possibly forever) I don't think there is much incentive for them to stick around as there future is really unsure.

That's for the best, I don't want cheaters sticking around.

[spanky4ever]

13 page later, I really think OP post captured most of this, but we all like the drama, don't we

[pecelot]

Show hidden quotes

Very few, if any, I would say. Especially in tournaments.

I think cheating is more apparent to observers and other players than your post implies.

Not saying that I believe anybody cheats, but I think a small resouce trickle at 10 minutes in the game is very hard to spot

Resource trickle doesn't exist.

I don't know what exists, but I imagine there must be some small stuff you can do that would be very hard to spot

From my experience (I was well aware of what you could do and what you couldn't do 2 years ago), you can :
- maphack. It's the hardest thing to spot but with first person pov rec you can spot it.
- spawn stuffs (treasures, resources, trees, bisons, units...), which is super obvious in a casted game.
- Send the same shipment multiple times (like advanced market twice), but again, that's so obvious.
- Send any shipment instantly at any age, but that's of course obvious.

Honestly, I can't think of a way to cheat which wouldn't get spotted in a tournament.

You forgot UI cheating, which tit does.

Using custom UI isn't really cheating in my opinion as it doesn't give you any unfair advantage (it's just like building rotator or agra hotkeys). By that I mean that you're never going to win or lose a game thanks to the UI.
Furthermore, you can't play on the EP with a custom UI.

Having market Ui is cheating no doubt, it frees up Apm and gives you an advantage. Agra Hotkeys should just be a thing and are only not because the devs forgot them.
Also tit was steaming on EP with a custom Ui

It literally saves you one click

[Riotcoke]

Show hidden quotes

Very few, if any, I would say. Especially in tournaments.

I think cheating is more apparent to observers and other players than your post implies.

Not saying that I believe anybody cheats, but I think a small resouce trickle at 10 minutes in the game is very hard to spot

Resource trickle doesn't exist.

I don't know what exists, but I imagine there must be some small stuff you can do that would be very hard to spot

From my experience (I was well aware of what you could do and what you couldn't do 2 years ago), you can :
- maphack. It's the hardest thing to spot but with first person pov rec you can spot it.
- spawn stuffs (treasures, resources, trees, bisons, units...), which is super obvious in a casted game.
- Send the same shipment multiple times (like advanced market twice), but again, that's so obvious.
- Send any shipment instantly at any age, but that's of course obvious.

Honestly, I can't think of a way to cheat which wouldn't get spotted in a tournament.

You forgot UI cheating, which tit does.

Using custom UI isn't really cheating in my opinion as it doesn't give you any unfair advantage (it's just like building rotator or agra hotkeys). By that I mean that you're never going to win or lose a game thanks to the UI.
Furthermore, you can't play on the EP with a custom UI.

Having market Ui is cheating no doubt, it frees up Apm and gives you an advantage. Agra Hotkeys should just be a thing and are only not because the devs forgot them.
Also tit was steaming on EP with a custom Ui

It literally saves you one click

You don't have to go to the market, and look away from a fight, it's much better than you think

[Djigit]

Show hidden quotes

Very few, if any, I would say. Especially in tournaments.

I think cheating is more apparent to observers and other players than your post implies.

Not saying that I believe anybody cheats, but I think a small resouce trickle at 10 minutes in the game is very hard to spot

Resource trickle doesn't exist.

I don't know what exists, but I imagine there must be some small stuff you can do that would be very hard to spot

From my experience (I was well aware of what you could do and what you couldn't do 2 years ago), you can :
- maphack. It's the hardest thing to spot but with first person pov rec you can spot it.
- spawn stuffs (treasures, resources, trees, bisons, units...), which is super obvious in a casted game.
- Send the same shipment multiple times (like advanced market twice), but again, that's so obvious.
- Send any shipment instantly at any age, but that's of course obvious.

Honestly, I can't think of a way to cheat which wouldn't get spotted in a tournament.

You forgot UI cheating, which tit does.

Using custom UI isn't really cheating in my opinion as it doesn't give you any unfair advantage (it's just like building rotator or agra hotkeys). By that I mean that you're never going to win or lose a game thanks to the UI.
Furthermore, you can't play on the EP with a custom UI.

Having market Ui is cheating no doubt, it frees up Apm and gives you an advantage. Agra Hotkeys should just be a thing and are only not because the devs forgot them.
Also tit was steaming on EP with a custom Ui

It literally saves you one click

You don't have to go to the market, and look away from a fight, it's much better than you think

You don't have to look away anyway if you disable the camera centering option on selection. I don't use thish UI and like many I don't mind if my opponent uses it to trade resources.

[Snuden]

13 page later, I really think OP post captured most of this, but we all like the drama, don't we

I especially see The adding his 2 cents, which is unusual on AoE3 related content.

[rsy]

Any posts here from Tit and Kynesie? Would like to hear their POV too

[deleted_user]

Did someone let @koenigerik1 and @tabben know?

[bobabu]

I really like kynesie's style of play and was cheering him on during his games, but I won't ever trust him if he plays in any future tournaments.

You don't trust the zoom-hack?

[bobabu]

Did someone let @koenigerik1 and @tabben know?

I am sure they are aware. Erik was suspecting it .

[fightinfrenchman]

I really like kynesie's style of play and was cheering him on during his games, but I won't ever trust him if he plays in any future tournaments.

You don't trust the zoom-hack?

I thought you were the zoom hack guy

[nimanoe]

When they are banned for an undefined amount of time (possibly forever) I don't think there is much incentive for them to stick around as there future is really unsure.

That's for the best, I don't want cheaters sticking around.

If that's the case, then just change it to a permanent ban, no need for them to keep their hopes up and possibly stick around in case they get unbanned.

[fightinfrenchman]

When they are banned for an undefined amount of time (possibly forever) I don't think there is much incentive for them to stick around as there future is really unsure.

That's for the best, I don't want cheaters sticking around.

If that's the case, then just change it to a permanent ban, no need for them to keep their hopes up and possibly stick around in case they get unbanned.

Part of the punishment should be having hopes that are constantly dashed.

[Riotcoke]

To add to the discussion on ban lengths, i agree it should be set rather than be undefined. The example of Csgo with IBuyPower is good here, with the players being banned for an undefined period of time meaning that you had up and coming players lose faith in the game due to the lack of incentive. I think it's actually worse in such a small community seeing as Kynesie was a core of the top end of players and Tit was somewhat lower but still a top player.

[THE 3 EYED GOAT]

Kynesie is the Conor McGregor of the ESO - Community; the most entertaining to watch and, sadly, the most controversial.

I will light a candle, send advanced dock, and pray for his swift return. May the staff have mercy.

#freemymanskynesie

[fightinfrenchman]

I am honestly in favor of a permanent ban. This was an attempt to steal not only the chance to win a big prize but an entire vacation as well. It was, as the future leader of the free world Joe Biden would say, "a big fucking deal."

[Riotcoke]

I am honestly in favor of a permanent ban. This was an attempt to steal not only the chance to win a big prize but an entire vacation as well. It was, as the future leader of the free world Joe Biden would say, "a big fucking deal."

Well tell them it's a perma ban then, instead of just having it up in the air to how long their ban is. Also i think you have to look at it in a way that you're losing two high skilled players when the community is so small.

[Kaiserklein]

Maybe before deciding for how long they're gonna ban, they want to hear from kynesie and tit... Cause rn they're just hiding which doesn't really help their case I'd say