NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:Because Kynesie lost a spot he actually earned by playing his own games, just because he tried to help someone else.


Do you think someone should get an lesser punishment if their crime to helping someone escape prison? IMO kynesie should get a harsher punishment for being a dumbass and giving up a free vacation
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Dolan »

Let's not exaggerate, this is just tournament fraud, it's not comparable to actual unlawful acts.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:Let's not exaggerate, this is just tournament fraud, it's not comparable to actual unlawful acts.


It's worse IMO
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Djigit »

Dolan wrote:
Djigit wrote:It's not like Tit forced him to play on his account LUL
No, obviously, it's still tournament fraud what they both did.

But Kynesie had already qualified, he earned his spot. He just lost it because he participated in this scheme.

I'm just saying that if either of them want to improve their situation, that requires an action on their part.
I get your point, but I think it's better they keep a low profile. They are in no position to improve their case right now, may it be through apologies (super awkward) or an explanation, which wouldn't be admissible anyway imo.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Djigit »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
Dolan wrote:Because Kynesie lost a spot he actually earned by playing his own games, just because he tried to help someone else.


Do you think someone should get an lesser punishment if their crime to helping someone escape prison? IMO kynesie should get a harsher punishment for being a dumbass and giving up a free vacation
That's where you're wrong. I'm not sure he gave up his free VACation Image
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Warno »

Djigit wrote:I get your point, but I think it's better they keep a low profile. They are in no position to improve their case right now, may it be through apologies (super awkward) or an explanation, which wouldn't be admissible anyway imo.


I don't see how an apology to viewers/casters/admins could hurt.

At a bare minimum I think there should be some acknowledgement of wrongdoing on their part.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Djigit »

Warno wrote:
Djigit wrote:I get your point, but I think it's better they keep a low profile. They are in no position to improve their case right now, may it be through apologies (super awkward) or an explanation, which wouldn't be admissible anyway imo.


I don't see how an apology to viewers/casters/admins could hurt.

At a bare minimum I think there should be some acknowledgement of wrongdoing on their part.
The way I see thish, that's exactly what they are doing by not being here.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by deleted_user0 »

As if it would be sincere, lol. "Esoc, im sorry i got caught!" We've seen multiple sir musket apologies already...

You apologize for something that you didnt do intentionally, or that you were later made to realize was wrong, while you didnt think it was before. They definitely did it intentionally while knowing it was wrong. An apology would just be show.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by t3rror1sta »

umeu wrote:As if it would be sincere, lol. "Esoc, im sorry i got caught!" We've seen multiple sir musket apologies already...

You apologize for something that you didnt do intentionally, or that you were later made to realize was wrong, while you didnt think it was before. They definitely did it intentionally while knowing it was wrong. An apology would just be show.

So, repentance doesn't exist.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by deleted_user0 »

t3rror1sta wrote:
umeu wrote:As if it would be sincere, lol. "Esoc, im sorry i got caught!" We've seen multiple sir musket apologies already...

You apologize for something that you didnt do intentionally, or that you were later made to realize was wrong, while you didnt think it was before. They definitely did it intentionally while knowing it was wrong. An apology would just be show.

So, repentance doesn't exist.


in this sense, yes.
that you were later made to realize was wrong, while you didnt think it was before


but if you mean christian repentance, that's mostly

im sorry i got caught!


so instead of praying for god to give you a bike, you steal the bike, and repent if you get caught.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Imperial Noob »

They will soon be found as mercenaries in some Asian monastery.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Theodore »

Dolan wrote:No, obviously, it's still tournament fraud what they both did.

But Kynesie had already qualified, he earned his spot. He just lost it because he participated in this scheme.

I'm just saying that if either of them want to improve their sitution, that requires an action on their part.



That is one problem - the other problem is that Kynesie was trying to get a player on the LAN who is potentially weaker than Erik, which does enhance his chances to win. So there is the additional aspect of manipulating his chances to win. If Kynesie wasn't participating himself and had smurfed, that would be a different case.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Theodore »

umeu wrote:As if it would be sincere, lol. "Esoc, im sorry i got caught!" We've seen multiple sir musket apologies already...

You apologize for something that you didnt do intentionally, or that you were later made to realize was wrong, while you didnt think it was before. They definitely did it intentionally while knowing it was wrong. An apology would just be show.


Technically intention doesn't matter. You can still apologise for something you did intentionally (even when you know what you did is wrong).
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by lordraphael »

Dolan wrote:Let's not exaggerate, this is just tournament fraud, it's not comparable to actual unlawful acts.

sc2 life went to prison for matchfixing. and if aoe 3 was as big as sc2 or even bigger this could also apply in the same category. Just saying, here its obviously just some rdm dudes doing sth wrong, but technically it is an unlawful act if you look at it from a certain perspective.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by pecelot »

Btw. I actually thought the whole purpose of the thread, with its noble Integrity and Fair Play name and the introduction, was to defend Tit from harmful and disrespectful comments in the chat, saying that it was really unsportsmanlike and unfair to judge him because it was Tit himself who won game 7. Well, I came to be surprised :ugly:
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by yemshi »

The overall tone here seems to be more disappointed than disrespectful. I'm happy that we were able to stay rather professional and didn't need to needlessly flame more.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Riotcoke »

lordraphael wrote:
Dolan wrote:Let's not exaggerate, this is just tournament fraud, it's not comparable to actual unlawful acts.

sc2 life went to prison for matchfixing. and if aoe 3 was as big as sc2 or even bigger this could also apply in the same category. Just saying, here its obviously just some rdm dudes doing sth wrong, but technically it is an unlawful act if you look at it from a certain perspective.


Match fixing isn't the same as smurfing. Match fixing it purposefully losing for betting etc
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Dolan »

lordraphael wrote:
Dolan wrote:Let's not exaggerate, this is just tournament fraud, it's not comparable to actual unlawful acts.

sc2 life went to prison for matchfixing. and if aoe 3 was as big as sc2 or even bigger this could also apply in the same category. Just saying, here its obviously just some rdm dudes doing sth wrong, but technically it is an unlawful act if you look at it from a certain perspective.
Could be, but it depends on how that SC2 tourney was organised. If it was organised by some company and players had to sign a legal agreement before participating, then participation was assimilated with a contractual relation. You broke the contract, you were liable to legal repercussions.
I don't think it's the size of the community that made the difference, it's how the tourney was organised, if players were required to agree to a legally enforceable agreement or not.

Simply smurfing on ESO in a tourney organised unofficially, that doesn't require players to agree to any legal document before participating, cannot lead to legally enforceable consequences, imo. Esoc is not legally incorporated anywhere and cannot bind anyone contractually. EscapeAOE is legally incorporated through their parent company from Germany, so probably players at the LAN will have to sign an agreement there.

LE. Yeah, so, if you check that SC2 incident, the event was organised by an e-sports company Korea e-Sports Association (which is actually a South Korean governmental agency, lol) and the participants were professional players. The event had enough recognition that it was accepted by betting houses. None of these conditions apply to this modest tourney, whose qualification stage is handled by a self-organised online community, a website basically.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by gibson »

Riotcoke wrote:
lordraphael wrote:
Dolan wrote:Let's not exaggerate, this is just tournament fraud, it's not comparable to actual unlawful acts.

sc2 life went to prison for matchfixing. and if aoe 3 was as big as sc2 or even bigger this could also apply in the same category. Just saying, here its obviously just some rdm dudes doing sth wrong, but technically it is an unlawful act if you look at it from a certain perspective.


Match fixing isn't the same as smurfing. Match fixing it purposefully losing for betting etc
it's not the same, but both acts attempt to change the expected result so it's similar.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by Jaeger »

Theodore wrote:
Dolan wrote:No, obviously, it's still tournament fraud what they both did.

But Kynesie had already qualified, he earned his spot. He just lost it because he participated in this scheme.

I'm just saying that if either of them want to improve their sitution, that requires an action on their part.



That is one problem - the other problem is that Kynesie was trying to get a player on the LAN who is potentially weaker than Erik, which does enhance his chances to win. So there is the additional aspect of manipulating his chances to win. If Kynesie wasn't participating himself and had smurfed, that would be a different case.

I think it's actually better for Kynesie if snowww goes to LAN. Snoww obviously struggles a lot against kynesie's playstyle, and Tit doesn't as much
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by deleted_user0 »

lordraphael wrote:
Dolan wrote:Let's not exaggerate, this is just tournament fraud, it's not comparable to actual unlawful acts.

sc2 life went to prison for matchfixing. and if aoe 3 was as big as sc2 or even bigger this could also apply in the same category. Just saying, here its obviously just some rdm dudes doing sth wrong, but technically it is an unlawful act if you look at it from a certain perspective.


life probably had a contract, and i think in south korea, esports gambling is regulated by law. so whether its illegal or not definitely depends on the country and the contracts involved. in this case, it wasn't unlawful, though beyond using hacks/cheats, this is basically the worst offense they couldve committed.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by bobabu »

I mean garja was probably cheated on.
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

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Post by Imperial Noob »

bobabu wrote:I mean garja was probably cheated on.

He asked for a replay of a series against Tit before it was cool :o :o :o
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Re: NWC Tournament Disqualifications - Tit and kynesie

Post by sebnan12 »

umeu wrote:
lordraphael wrote:
Dolan wrote:Let's not exaggerate, this is just tournament fraud, it's not comparable to actual unlawful acts.

sc2 life went to prison for matchfixing. and if aoe 3 was as big as sc2 or even bigger this could also apply in the same category. Just saying, here its obviously just some rdm dudes doing sth wrong, but technically it is an unlawful act if you look at it from a certain perspective.


life probably had a contract, and i think in south korea, esports gambling is regulated by law. so whether its illegal or not definitely depends on the country and the contracts involved. in this case, it wasn't unlawful, though beyond using hacks/cheats, this is basically the worst offense they couldve committed.

if u meant it was unlawful, then yea i agree
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