Mitoe vs Hazza54321

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Armenia Sargsyan
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

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Post by Sargsyan »

Imagine if people gave as much fuck about world hunger as they do about trade routes
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

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Post by lemmings121 »

Such a beatiful thred, dozens of posts and not a single step toward solution.


[spoiler=dirty fix to the problem]just move the dam socket 10 meters ahead in the line, so its offcenter and you can never get the first pass.

problem, fucking, solved.


"ah but ofcenter is ugly"
still 100x better then having some weird spawn conditions that will benefit a player sometimes.[/spoiler]
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by deleted_user0 »

hard to come up with solutions when ppl dont acknowledge the problem :O
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Garja »

umeu wrote:ok.

lol... ye u dont accept invites and go in game vs someone else XD ur such a liar.

hmm
I have privacy online and dont have u on fl. Saw u going in game so I did the same
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

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Post by Warno »

So how about that Mitoe/Hazza series?

Great games !
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

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Post by Kaiserklein »

lemmings121 wrote:Such a beatiful thred, dozens of posts and not a single step toward solution.


[spoiler=dirty fix to the problem]just move the dam socket 10 meters ahead in the line, so its offcenter and you can never get the first pass.

problem, fucking, solved.


"ah but ofcenter is ugly"
still 100x better then having some weird spawn conditions that will benefit a player sometimes.[/spoiler]

What are you talking about? Fixing the problem is most likely not very hard, and it's the job of the map maker, not ours, since we don't know how to code maps. Garja would find a more elegant fix than that.
The point is, he doesn't believe there is a problem.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Garja »

lemmings121 wrote:Such a beatiful thred, dozens of posts and not a single step toward solution.


[spoiler=dirty fix to the problem]just move the dam socket 10 meters ahead in the line, so its offcenter and you can never get the first pass.

problem, fucking, solved.


"ah but ofcenter is ugly"
still 100x better then having some weird spawn conditions that will benefit a player sometimes.[/spoiler]

learn to read the thread mr 200iq. If you move the socket then it's the other player getting the first pass.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Garja »

Kaiserklein wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:Such a beatiful thred, dozens of posts and not a single step toward solution.


[spoiler=dirty fix to the problem]just move the dam socket 10 meters ahead in the line, so its offcenter and you can never get the first pass.

problem, fucking, solved.


"ah but ofcenter is ugly"
still 100x better then having some weird spawn conditions that will benefit a player sometimes.[/spoiler]

What are you talking about? Fixing the problem is most likely not very hard, and it's the job of the map maker, not ours, since we don't know how to code maps. Garja would find a more elegant fix than that.
The point is, he doesn't believe there is a problem.

The point is, it's not clear by how much players get first pass. That not only would obviously affect the solution but also if it is worth to actually find a solution.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by lemmings121 »

Kaiserklein wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:Such a beatiful thred, dozens of posts and not a single step toward solution.


[spoiler=dirty fix to the problem]just move the dam socket 10 meters ahead in the line, so its offcenter and you can never get the first pass.

problem, fucking, solved.


"ah but ofcenter is ugly"
still 100x better then having some weird spawn conditions that will benefit a player sometimes.[/spoiler]

What are you talking about? Fixing the problem is most likely not very hard, and it's the job of the map maker, not ours, since we don't know how to code maps. Garja would find a more elegant fix than that.
The point is, he doesn't believe there is a problem.


I'm sure there are a hundred elegant solutions, but people are talking like everything is impossible to do and its so hard omg we need to delete the map..... just moving the socket is a easy fix. not perfect, not beatifull, but a fix.



Garja wrote:learn to read the thread mr 200iq. If you move the socket then it's the other player getting the first pass.


maybe you should be the one to learn to read. i'm not saying to move the socket toward the other player, but move it south (or north, wathever is the side that the travois is coming from). so the travois hit the socket too early to anyone get the first pass.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

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Post by Googol »

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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Garja »

lemmings121 wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:Such a beatiful thred, dozens of posts and not a single step toward solution.


[spoiler=dirty fix to the problem]just move the dam socket 10 meters ahead in the line, so its offcenter and you can never get the first pass.

problem, fucking, solved.


"ah but ofcenter is ugly"
still 100x better then having some weird spawn conditions that will benefit a player sometimes.[/spoiler]

What are you talking about? Fixing the problem is most likely not very hard, and it's the job of the map maker, not ours, since we don't know how to code maps. Garja would find a more elegant fix than that.
The point is, he doesn't believe there is a problem.


I'm sure there are a hundred elegant solutions, but people are talking like everything is impossible to do and its so hard omg we need to delete the map..... just moving the socket is a easy fix. not perfect, not beatifull, but a fix.



Garja wrote:learn to read the thread mr 200iq. If you move the socket then it's the other player getting the first pass.


maybe you should be the one to learn to read. i'm not saying to move the socket toward the other player, but move it south (or north, wathever is the side that the travois is coming from). so the travois hit the socket too early to anyone get the first pass.

that was the solution for old map. It's not just ugly, it is not symmetrical. Basically right player has 2 TPs on his side of the cliff which almost a bigger issue than getting first pass.
And if I wanted that layout I would have put 4 TPs not 3.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Kaiserklein »

lemmings121 wrote:I'm sure there are a hundred elegant solutions, but people are talking like everything is impossible to do and its so hard omg we need to delete the map..... just moving the socket is a easy fix. not perfect, not beatifull, but a fix.

Literally no one is acting like that. The discussion is about the existence of the problem, not about its fix.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Dolan »

Garja wrote:that was the solution for old map. It's not just ugly, it is not symmetrical. Basically right player has 2 TPs on his side of the cliff which almost a bigger issue than getting first pass.
And if I wanted that layout I would have put 4 TPs not 3.

There are other options too:

1. Make the map longer on the Z axis, which wouldn't make the map significantly larger, just enough to allow making the trade route a bit longer, and so, delay the travois arrival time to the middle TP.

2. Make the trade route wavier. The function which creates random trade route waypoints has an option for making the vector have a more curved path, which can increase the overall length of the route and so, make the travois travel a bit more before he reaches the middle TP.

The syntax of this function looks like this:

Code: Select all

rmAddRandomTradeRouteWaypoints(int tradeRouteID, float endXFraction, float endZFraction, int count, float maxVariation)

If you add more waypoints by increasing the count integer, you get more waypoints in the route, which will make the route wavier, but that won't increase the length much. So you can both add more waypoints per each coordinate and increase maxVariation which will give the route more room to wiggle.
This might make the route a bit uglier and might also create issues for TPs to spawn, unless you increase the minimum distance from which a TP can spawn, relative to the route. It might take some tweaking before you get the right formula of constraints that secures reliable spawns. But it's possible it might solve this issue and make the travois always arrive after the explorer has built the middle TP.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Garja »

More wavier trade route means travois reaches middle even later. Wavier route (slightly) on new version is one of reasons why you barely get first passage on mid.
Changing x/y ratio is something I don't want to do. It drastically changes the layout of the map. I tweaked it in past and it works well as it is now.
Traderoute waypoints are not random on Baja. They are fixed because there isn't much room for the route itself. It has to avoid the coast cliffs while staying in the desert part.
There are ofc solutions for the mid thing. It's not about finding them (one solution will always be found). The point is quantifing if it is necessary and by how much.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by lesllamas »

Garja wrote:More wavier trade route means travois reaches middle even later. Wavier route (slightly) on new version is one of reasons why you barely get first passage on mid.
Changing x/y ratio is something I don't want to do. It drastically changes the layout of the map. I tweaked it in past and it works well as it is now.
Traderoute waypoints are not random on Baja. They are fixed because there isn't much room for the route itself. It has to avoid the coast cliffs while staying in the desert part.
There are ofc solutions for the mid thing. It's not about finding them (one solution will always be found). The point is quantifing if it is necessary and by how much.


If this is something of a balance issue that's hard to fix, might it not be best to remove the map from tournament rotations in the interim until a workable solution is found that doesn't have bad unintended consequences?

That way you can just work on it at your leisure and go through a more iterative process.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Garja »

Anyway the reason why you get the travois to cross mid TP so late is because of vsync. With vsync enabled travois crosses at 50-52 seconds, about 4 seconds later than without vsync.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by deleted_user0 »

so why isnt there any OOS? this sounds quit bs.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Garja »

I just tried it myself. Try it if you don't believe it. I have no idea about oos. However this kinda explains why I feel the game goes slow when I play with certain players.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by deleted_user0 »

Garja wrote:I just tried it myself. Try it if you don't believe it. I have no idea about oos. However this kinda explains why I feel the game goes slow when I play with certain players.


lol ye your right. that's fucking weird. the difference is like almost 10 seconds... wtf that's so insane... why doesnt it oos then?
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Kynesie »

So Garja was right, as always!
Really very strange thing, does it affect anything other than travois ?
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Lukas_L99 »

So do I need to enable Vsync every time I’m playing that map now to get the middle pass?
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by gibson »

lol thats wild
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by gibson »

Garja wrote:Anyway the reason why you get the travois to cross mid TP so late is because of vsync. With vsync enabled travois crosses at 50-52 seconds, about 4 seconds later than without vsync.
Curious, what made you try it with and without vsync? HAve you noticed in the past other small differences in the game with it on vs off?
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by deleted_user0 »

hmm did you test it on eso, or did you test it in skirmish mode?

I've tested in both modes now.

on eso, the diffcerence between vsync and no vsync is like 3-5 sec. On lan/skirmish, the difference is like 10-15 sec, depending on the route.


lol i also discovered something else. if you play a game without sync, and then watch the recording back with vsync, it's terribly slow. maybe thats why for certain people, watching back recs is so much slower.
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Re: Mitoe vs Hazza54321

Post by Garja »

Ye vsync defo makes rec slow, even tho I think all graphics settings affect that.
I tested in multiplayer->LAN, which is the same as ESO (funny thing, if your net drops you drop the game even vs AI). Skirmish mode is completely affected by whatever settings you have in the .cfg file, so it's unreliable regardless of vysnc.

gibson wrote:Curious, what made you try it with and without vsync? HAve you noticed in the past other small differences in the game with it on vs off?

Sound bug made me remember of vysnc, but ye there is quite a difference in game pace / smoothness overall.
Just for reference on the fps subject. Difference in fps affects inputs a lot. Speedrunners mention it quite often when explaining their jeekery stuff.

Kynesie wrote:So Garja was right, as always!
Really very strange thing, does it affect anything other than travois ?

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it even screws up gathering times.
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