Beta British Discussion

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Please discuss anything relating specifically to the British, in this thread. The following are the current changes to the civilization:

– "Guard Longbowmen" and "Imperial Longbowmen" improvements set to available, by default; “Yeomen” shipment updated accordingly

The following changes are currently being considered:

– Rocket range increased from 28 to 30

[deleted_user0]

why guard lb and imperial lb set to available by default? what would change to yeomen? it becomes just a +4 range upgrade?

[Mitoe]

I don't really see the point behind a rocket buff, especially considering that 3 rockets is one of the best Industrial cards in the game.

[Garja]

lbow should be tweaked as follow:
- -1 base damage, x1.5 vs HI
- yeomen gives +2 range and +10% hitpoints. Alternatively +2 range and +0.5 vs HI.
- guard and imperial ups by default.

[Mitoe]

I don't see any reason to change Yeomen from +4 range, personally.

1.5x vs HI seems like a pretty large buff as well.

[Goodspeed]

I think a revert of the manor nerf should be considered.

[deleted_user]

Rockets are already quite strong, it is not really needed to be fair, I would like to see old manor cost back or build time is decreased.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I think a revert of the manor nerf should be considered.

I really dislike the manor nerf but Brit is still one of the best civs on "normal maps" so I'm not sure we should revert it.

It's not played in tournaments because
1) The map pools are generally bad for brit (big TP maps or no hunt maps)
2) They don't really hard counter any civ. It's a good civ in almost every MU.
3) They get hard countered by India (because you can't counter the sepoy spam), and by Russia (it's impossible to break 2 blockhouses and aging takes too long) so you can't really pick them first unless it's free pick.
4) They're one of the hardest civs to play, thus it's not rewarding to play them.

I guess we need to nerf Russia (revert the rusket buff) and give them options to deal with India (maybe Yeomen adds a multiplier vs sepoys, or arsenal upgrade) if we want to see more brit.

[Garja]

I don't see any reason to change Yeomen from +4 range, personally.

1.5x vs HI seems like a pretty large buff as well.

-1 attack 1.5x moves the unit slightly more on the counter unit side, making it more reasonable overall. Yeomen +4 is a bit ridicolous imo.
As for guard up it was a nice design on nilla but in TAD it makes little sense when all other archer units have it by default (and for a cheaper price too).

[Kaiserklein]

Just have yeomen increase the multiplier vs HI instead of granting the guard and imperial upgrades and it's fine

[Mitoe]

Are we really discussing just straight up buffing Brit? They seem fine now.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Are we really discussing just straight up buffing Brit? They seem fine now.

They have a big issue against 100% musk spam, this would only really affect India vs Brit.

[Mitoe]

I think it also greatly affect France, Japan, Russia, and Otto vs Brit. I'm ok with it if it's just added onto Yeomen maybe, but increasing the base might not be ideal.

Do longbows still miss this patch?

[[Armag] diarouga]

I think it also greatly affect France, Japan, Russia, and Otto vs Brit. I'm ok with it if it's just added onto Yeomen maybe, but increasing the base might not be ideal.

Do longbows still miss this patch?

Lb still miss yea.
It does affect Japan I guess.
Against Russia and Otto, if you have time to train lb and send yeomen you've already won the game anyway. Also France doesn't make musks in age 3 so I'm not sure how it affects this MU.

[Kaiserklein]

I think it also greatly affect France, Japan, Russia, and Otto vs Brit. I'm ok with it if it's just added onto Yeomen maybe, but increasing the base might not be ideal.

Do longbows still miss this patch?

Agreed, it shouldn't be a direct buff on lbs. lbs are not a bad unit at all anyway. But buffing them in mid-late fortress vs HI thanks to yeomen sounds good imo, cause it's a bit dumb atm people just go pure musk the whole game vs brit, with some civs.

[Hazza54321]

Yeah with the card for sure.

[deleted_user]

I think adding bonus to lb for HI is not needed at all. The main reason why brits are not played alot is because competitive map-set has so many non standard maps and people don't want to gamble with brit, Kamchatka/Arkansas brit could easily be top4 civ to play imo.

[[Armag] diarouga]

You'd need to send yeomen to get that bonus against HI, it's not a free bonus.

[Garja]

Lbow change shouldn't be a net buff.
The higher multiplier (in fact just a standard x1.5 common to some other archer units like yumi and, possibly in the future, xbows) should be compensated with less attack. Less attack is a good change in itself as lbow dps is fairly retarded.

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I don't really see the point behind a rocket buff, especially considering that 3 rockets is one of the best Industrial cards in the game.

Because the Rocket is an underwhelming unit that we never see trained. Buffing the train-time is an option, though.

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why guard lb and imperial lb set to available by default? what would change to yeomen? it becomes just a +4 range upgrade?

With the suggestion in question, yes. It seems both bad and dumb that you have to send a shipment in order to research a regular unit upgrade.

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lbow should be tweaked as follow:
- -1 base damage, x1.5 vs HI
- yeomen gives +2 range and +10% hitpoints. Alternatively +2 range and +0.5 vs HI.
- guard and imperial ups by default.

I'd rather not standardize the Longbowman (or Yeomen), unless it cannot otherwise be balanced.

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I think a revert of the manor nerf should be considered.

Having seen your arguments, I'm convinced that keeping it is worthwhile, being both good for balance, and removing a decimal cost. Still, if I see a convincing argument, or the change proves particularly unpopular, I might reconsider.

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I think it also greatly affect France, Japan, Russia, and Otto vs Brit. I'm ok with it if it's just added onto Yeomen maybe, but increasing the base might not be ideal.

Do longbows still miss this patch?

Probably. It hasn't been changed.

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lbow should be tweaked as follow:
- -1 base damage, x1.5 vs HI
- yeomen gives +2 range and +10% hitpoints. Alternatively +2 range and +0.5 vs HI.
- guard and imperial ups by default.

I'd rather not standardize the Longbowman (or Yeomen), unless it cannot otherwise be balanced.

Try shipping Jaegers!