Beta Ottomans Discussion

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Spahis are shit against goons but in some situations they're great.
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

zoom wrote:Whether Janissary Combat is fine is not the question; the question is whether it should be buffed, from 15%. Unless a good case can be made for it, it should be reverted. Still, if it's popular enough, we could make an exception.

Yes it should be buffed from 15% because
1) 15% combat on only one unit is underwhelming
2) It makes otto less all-in in fortress, instead of just shipping units repeatedly
3) In late game jans aren't as pop-efficient as on RE, buffing the combat card makes up for it a bit
4) Do we even have a good reason to revert that card to begin with?
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by Goodspeed »

You don't really need a reason to revert things. As zoi said, the question should be whether the change was good in the first place.
But I agree with your first 3 points and think the first one alone is plenty of reason for the change to remain in the patch.
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Shouldn't revert Jan combat imo, it's not an issue unlike 20 range abus.
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by bwinner »

My view : 5 spahis card and 3 spahis age up are not bad. Other spahis shipments are bad but that's not the unit itself. In fortress, 4 mams is often better than spahis, but there is still cases where spahis are better (mostly when there is no light cav) + it's still a good card to have for later. Then what's really good about 5 spahis is that it's both an age 3 card and an age 4 card in a way since when you send it in age 4, you get very good value of it . You can even sometimes ship it in transition to get military right when you age up which is very good.
For bombards, they are less good than heavy canons for sure, but not like a bad unit either, it's more heavy canons that are totally OP. So I am not against a very little buff, but +33% HP is too much. Maybe try 450->500 first.
For jan combat, I think there is a good reason to keep it 20% : it's necessary for the late game options. Since jans are cheaper/lower HP, they are less pop effectiv than on re, which, combined with the fact abus are terrible in pop efficiency makes otto 200/200 army very weak, that's why you need jans to be good in late game (that's also the reason why you can't go for bow riders in late game).
Btw, dutch skirms/forest prowdlers beat vet abus in very late age 3, abus only counter skirms in small numbers @[Armag] diarouga
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Nah, no way skirms counter 20 range abus.
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Italy Garja
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by Garja »

Any decent RI do well vs abus from midgame and on. That doesn't mean abus are weak or anything.
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by deleted_user »

atleast giving -1 range abus in age III is needed imo, it's really so strong at some situations
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by bwinner »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Nah, no way skirms counter 20 range abus.

they don't counter abus but they don't lose either in very big mass.
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Australia Hazza54321
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Re: Beta Ottomans Discussion

Post by Hazza54321 »

Im honestly fine with 20range abus, at what point does otto get a scary vet abus mass? 20min?

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