Playoffs Prediction

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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

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Post by Goodspeed »

sebnan12 wrote:
lordraphael wrote:Tbh it was just an unfair mu. Good speed vs bwinner would have been fair and a close series. But nn refused that, which is sad considering we lost the second most expensive player.
thats bs considering wicked vs goodspeed is unfair too which got u into the playoffs in the first place. stop whining
It wasn't unfair, I could've beat him 5-0 ez, but I threw the games on purpose so that we would have an easier opponent in the playoffs. Had I lost 1-4, we would've faced the much scarier CMC.

I mean, did it look like I was trying to win?

It was the perfect crime. @Aizamk had the incredible foresight to pick me and put me up against WC in the first round, instructing me to throw the match 0-5, knowing that it would be believable. After all, people would just say I'm rusty and aiz had overrated my current level. What's really going on is we at NN live in a team house and follow a very strict practice schedule. My current level is at least top 3. But to keep the 0-5 loss believable, aiz's plan was to only use me in future matches if absolutely necessary to secure the victory for our team. It wasn't deemed necessary, and of course no one suspects a thing.

Like I said, NN are professionals. We don't fuck around.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by sebnan12 »

princeofkabul wrote:
sebnan12 wrote:
lordraphael wrote:Tbh it was just an unfair mu. Good speed vs bwinner would have been fair and a close series. But nn refused that, which is sad considering we lost the second most expensive player.
thats bs considering wicked vs goodspeed is unfair too which got u into the playoffs in the first place. stop whining
except they didn't need to do that and we had to?
the mods investigated when we couldnt get the pairings against nn we wanted. im pretty sure they wouldve helped u with better pairings aswell if u insisted? if not then the mods treated u unfair i guess.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by sebnan12 »

bwinner wrote:
sebnan12 wrote:
lordraphael wrote:Tbh it was just an unfair mu. Good speed vs bwinner would have been fair and a close series. But nn refused that, which is sad considering we lost the second most expensive player.
thats bs considering wicked vs goodspeed is unfair too which got u into the playoffs in the first place. stop whining
There is a difference though, cuz the reason why they made goodspeed play was because they though he would be good, while the reason why I played was cuz breeze was unavaliable
nah thats a weak excuse i think very moste people expected a 4-1 5-0 for wicked.. u cant tell me whole nn expected goodspeed to perform better. anyways read my above post im prety sure u couldve gone against masterdutch or something
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by Riotcoke »

Goodspeed wrote:
sebnan12 wrote:
lordraphael wrote:Tbh it was just an unfair mu. Good speed vs bwinner would have been fair and a close series. But nn refused that, which is sad considering we lost the second most expensive player.
thats bs considering wicked vs goodspeed is unfair too which got u into the playoffs in the first place. stop whining
It wasn't unfair, I could've beat him 5-0 ez, but I threw the games on purpose so that we would have an easier opponent in the playoffs. Had I lost 1-4, we would've faced the much scarier CMC.

I mean, did it look like I was trying to win?

It was the perfect crime. @Aizamk had the incredible foresight to pick me and put me up against WC in the first round, instructing me to throw the match 0-5, knowing that it would be believable. After all, people would just say I'm rusty and aiz had overrated my current level. What's really going on is we at NN live in a team house and follow a very strict practice schedule. My current level is at least top 3. But to keep the 0-5 loss believable, aiz's plan was to only use me in future matches if absolutely necessary to secure the victory for our team. It wasn't deemed necessary, and of course no one suspects a thing.

Like I said, NN are professionals. We don't fuck around.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

sebnan12 wrote:
princeofkabul wrote:
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except they didn't need to do that and we had to?
the mods investigated when we couldnt get the pairings against nn we wanted. im pretty sure they wouldve helped u with better pairings aswell if u insisted? if not then the mods treated u unfair i guess.
SKG didn't have another player available due to Breeze dropping out this week. That's what Prince meant by 'had to'

In the end, it partly comes down to the auction as well. SKG paid a hefty amount for Raphael which meant they had less to spend on the rest of their team. Breeze dropping out is very unfortunate, but you see the same in some football teams where the star player gets an injury and the team performs a lot worse. (Spurs last season with Kane for example)
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

"In the end, it partly comes down to the auction as well. SKG paid a hefty amount for Raphael which meant they had less to spend on the rest of their team"

Considering rapha won 6-1 this was a good choice and it has nothing to do with breeze leaving.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by princeofkabul »

Lecastete wrote:
princeofkabul wrote:
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except they didn't need to do that and we had to?
That’s the point of the tourney format, to pair equal level players. Nothing forced you to pair bwinner with forjustice
Did you miss the fact that our equal level player against justice couldn't participate?
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by lordraphael »

Basically that's it. Now you might say ye sure why didn't you purchase more players but in the end that doesn't matter, no team could compensate the loss of their second best player (in terms of duck points) just imagine nn without Erik or knusch and us with breeze. Suddenly we would have breeze playing vs goodspeed instead of bwinner playing vs for justice....
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yea that's super unfair.
SKG should have won but now NN is going to win most likely.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

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Post by deleted_user »

You could also say the format of the tourney is to pit players of perceived similar skill against each other.

In that sense, ForJustice's pairings have all been very sane. He was a gamble to bet on, and Aiz deserves comendment for picking him up. SKG bid high with low reserves, and it might end costing them. Besides, SKG milking goodspeed was one of the reasons y'all made it to playoffs, a benefit of the perception-based match making.

It's in the spirit of the tournament that underrated players outperform their expectations/price. It's also in the spirit to draft a well rounded, deep roster.

It sucks breeze can't play, but world cups aren't postponed until an injured player returns healthy - they're subbed out.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by chris1089 »

I think Callen is spot on.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by lordraphael »

deleted_user wrote:You could also say the format of the tourney is to pit players of perceived similar skill against each other.

In that sense, ForJustice's pairings have all been very sane. He was a gamble to bet on, and Aiz deserves comendment for picking him up. SKG bid high with low reserves, and it might end costing them. Besides, SKG milking goodspeed was one of the reasons y'all made it to playoffs, a benefit of the perception-based match making.

It's in the spirit of the tournament that underrated players outperform their expectations/price. It's also in the spirit to draft a well rounded roster.

It sucks breeze can't play, but world cups aren't postponed until an injured player returns healthy - they're subbed out.
it makes little sense, in the end NN doesnt win cause of good player selection but merely because we dont have a key player. And thats just a fact, perceived skill or not NN might have made a great purchase with justice but they also made a bad one with Goodspeed and masterdutch ( culminating in 2000 points wasted )
Also by now we know that Justice is better than the perceived skill from the beginning of the tourney hence why we actually put breeze/ again: our second most expensive and third best player) vs him.
if you look at the pairings they are actually pretty sane except for the justice vs bwinner which is just straight up unfair

Me vs turk ( probably best player from both, knusch erik and turk are all extremely similar in skill IMO)
wicked vs erik ( second best vs 1/2 /3)
sompuu vs knuschelbar 3rd vs 1/2/3)


jeri vs opti usually 5th vs 5th , but in this case 4th vs 5th)
bwinner vs justice ( 6th vs 4th)

another thing to mention, aizamk and prince actually never negotiated in person, admins kind of made mus.
What admins should have done IMO
jeri vs justice/optimus and bwinner vs goodspeed.
that way we would have 4th vs 4th and 6th vs 6th ===> equal pairings

if you look at the results the score reflects the fair mu chosing overall. Except jerimuno who completly underperformed, still a 5-2 is an okaish result, considering any series is just a snapshot and could be different the other day ( best vs best is like worst vs worst can never be completly fair, tho in that case 6thvs6th would have been)
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

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Post by Garja »

skg definetely missed the key player
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by Guigs »

princeofkabul wrote:
Lecastete wrote:
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That’s the point of the tourney format, to pair equal level players. Nothing forced you to pair bwinner with forjustice
Did you miss the fact that our equal level player against justice couldn't participate?
No I am aware of that, just saying that then bwinner should be paired with another player « Worse » than forjustice idk
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by WickedCossack »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:"In the end, it partly comes down to the auction as well. SKG paid a hefty amount for Raphael which meant they had less to spend on the rest of their team"

Considering rapha won 6-1 this was a good choice and it has nothing to do with breeze leaving.
Yea Raph for 4,000 was completely fine. I would've gone 5000+, especially since we already had breeze, me and somppu on the team and at the time of the bid and had so many coins spare.

4,000 only looks high because about 90% of the players got underbid on.

If you remove the champion results from the weekly EPL scores our 'drafted' team performed the best, and that was even splitting jeri/bwinner to give them 2 weeks each.

I don't know what happened to breeze but feels painful to lose the finals this way (at time of typing, dream is technically still alive!) when I believe we would've won.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

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Post by lordraphael »

after reading some twitch chat, idont think people can understand that i myself didnt grasp how unfair it was until yesterday for a few reasons. 1 ) I joined skg discord chat just yesterday and when i saw that admins actually made the call to put bwinner vs forjustice it felt rigged. I know they didnt do it to purposely hurt us but we tried to put bwinner vs a more suitable opponent and admins are supposed to look out for fair mus, which it clearly wasnt.
2) tbh i didnt expect for it to even matter. Most predictions saw NN as such a clear favourite that even breeze wouldnt have mattered and itended to agree with them. Altho in the end its obvious that it was actually a pretty close pairing with sompuu performing better than expected and jeri worse. Its not a stretch to say we would have won 100 % with breeze. Just stupid to have it decided like that.

There should have been more clear rules imo. Tho technically rules had been in place to prevent sth like that from happening, but they werent followed.

And to all those who say bwinner vs gs would not have been fair... I would be willing to put 10 euro up for a showmatch between bwinner and goodspeed, if anyone wants to chip in to make it happen... go for it. Thing is im not sure how gs could be convinced to actually try really hard, as he has enough money and winning would just prove my point.

now you can call me salty and w.e. but i dont give a shit, imo SKG got robbed.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by Cometk »

Well, imagine if Forjustice weren't able to play for the NN while breeze still had the time to. Admins would not have decided for SKG to field a weaker roster than their strongest 5 players for Playoffs, ie. having GoodSpeed vs bwinner instead of their stronger player Jerimuno. The strongest 5 players on each team that were available to play played.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by Kawapasaka »

Kawapasaka wrote:iamturk [2-5] LordRaphael
Knuschelbär [3-4] SomppuKunkku
snowww [3-4] WickedCossack
OPTIMUS__PRIME [4-3] Jerimuno
Forjustice [5-2] bwinner

just throwing shit at the wall tbh I have about as much of a clue as my 0% betting winrate indicates
two right, I consider that success, if only I remembered to bet :mrgreen:
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

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Post by Goodspeed »

The whole point of the draft is to pick the strongest players for the lowest possible cost. Of course both teams should then field their best 5 players. Only then you look for the fairest possible pairings.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by lordraphael »

oh also what i forgot. For the next tournament players should be punished if they deliberatly be ingame at a scheduled time. Maybe 5 min is okay but not 30 mins like optimus did. A map loss sounds pretty fair to me.

Overall it was a great event tho. well planned and organised. just sad to see that stuff in the finals, tho it only mattered for SKG not for the viewers i guess.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by Kaiserklein »

If anything blame breeze for signing up to the event even tho he wasn't available in the final week. Maybe he didn't know about it when he signed up, idk, but anyway that's not the admins fault.
I agree with GS that it makes sense for both teams to bring their 5 strongest players, and then to pair them as fairly as possible. That's what the admins did.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by Riotcoke »

lordraphael wrote:oh also what i forgot. For the next tournament players should be punished if they deliberatly be ingame at a scheduled time. Maybe 5 min is okay but not 30 mins like optimus did. A map loss sounds pretty fair to me.

Overall it was a great event tho. well planned and organised. just sad to see that stuff in the finals, tho it only mattered for SKG not for the viewers i guess.
Honestly Optimus' game was the only one where it was a real problem, even then it was annoying but i don't think it entirely effected the game too much. Can say the same for players taking way too long between games.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by Riotcoke »

Kawapasaka wrote:
Kawapasaka wrote:iamturk [2-5] LordRaphael
Knuschelbär [3-4] SomppuKunkku
snowww [3-4] WickedCossack
OPTIMUS__PRIME [4-3] Jerimuno
Forjustice [5-2] bwinner

just throwing shit at the wall tbh I have about as much of a clue as my 0% betting winrate indicates
two right, I consider that success, if only I remembered to bet :mrgreen:
Better than Prince's predictions!
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by lordraphael »

Riotcoke wrote:
lordraphael wrote:oh also what i forgot. For the next tournament players should be punished if they deliberatly be ingame at a scheduled time. Maybe 5 min is okay but not 30 mins like optimus did. A map loss sounds pretty fair to me.

Overall it was a great event tho. well planned and organised. just sad to see that stuff in the finals, tho it only mattered for SKG not for the viewers i guess.
Honestly Optimus' game was the only one where it was a real problem, even then it was annoying but i don't think it entirely effected the game too much. Can say the same for players taking way too long between games.
well its common sense obviously but if theres players who dont have that, make a rule thats just simple. Now that we know that some players will stay ingame altho having scheduled for a game you should enforce it.really a no brainer. I think it was the first time sth like this happened ( at least in a casted game, non casted game is annoying but a different case id say) and its just disrespectful to the player,( in case of jerimuno might have even tilted him idk ), the caster and the viewers. and im mainly arguing for viewers and casters , tho it would annoy me aswell to have my opponent just stay ingame when your game is supposed to start.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Playoffs Prediction

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

SKG deserved to win but w/e.

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