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Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
EPL Reigning Champs
Posts: 8317

12 Nov 2017, 18:35

Hi all,

It's that time again.
The previous poll was in June 2017, some time has passed since then and new changes have been released. Let's see where we all think balance is at right now. A similar poll will be posted after the tournament. I added some questions about specific changes and about EP as a whole, but you don't have to answer those if you don't want to.

The form
Results

Remember, this is only for 1v1.

Thanks in advance :flowers:
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Finland somppukunkku
Advanced Player
Donator 02
Posts: 2689
ESO: PrinceOfBabu

12 Nov 2017, 18:49

buff russia
pr 20 opinions or h2o losing to 5 cossacks cause he can't finish an agra fort before do not mean much
Co-Founder of Somali Kabuli Gaming
Homo management SKG
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7900
ESO: Garja

12 Nov 2017, 19:03

Nice form, seems improved. But please consider narrowing the tiers, 10 tiers at this point is misleading.
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Austria KINGofOsmane
Jaeger
Posts: 2891
ESO: KINGofOsmane
Location: Walling Town

12 Nov 2017, 19:05

I would nerf japan more tbh so they are on the buttom.
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"gua has good mechanics" GiBthedurrty 2017
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6398
ESO: PrinceofBabu

12 Nov 2017, 19:05

cool another thread we can use to hate on ep4!
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Finland somppukunkku
Advanced Player
Donator 02
Posts: 2689
ESO: PrinceOfBabu

12 Nov 2017, 19:06

KINGofOsmane wrote:I would nerf japan more tbh so they are on the buttom.

I'd say 3k or 3.5k wall for 10w would be balanced and help japs a bit. 1.5k is fucking stupid anyways, it's a wall not a fucking reindeer fence
Co-Founder of Somali Kabuli Gaming
Homo management SKG
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Austria KINGofOsmane
Jaeger
Posts: 2891
ESO: KINGofOsmane
Location: Walling Town

12 Nov 2017, 19:18

20hp less on yumis is huger lol
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"gua has good mechanics" GiBthedurrty 2017
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Great Britain I_HaRRiiSoN_I
Dragoon
Posts: 253
Location: United Kingdom

12 Nov 2017, 19:20

Chinese situation solution could be to mod the game so that your starting disciple or goat is renamed to the starting extra crate for your opponent. As in every other match-up you can tell what crates your opponents has by looking at your starting crates. This change maintains that chinese uniqueness and tries to not make significant alterations.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7900
ESO: Garja

12 Nov 2017, 19:33

somppukunkku wrote:
KINGofOsmane wrote:I would nerf japan more tbh so they are on the buttom.

I'd say 3k or 3.5k wall for 10w would be balanced and help japs a bit. 1.5k is fucking stupid anyways, it's a wall not a fucking reindeer fence

Wall nerf is the best change of the EP. Both for balance and entertainment. 3k is more than rax, stable, etc. which is retarded. 3k is the consulate, for reference, and it takes forever to take that down. Also it's a fuckin palisade, not a wall. Stone walls have same HP for late game.

Also, for Japan walls only help to some extent vs rushes. Like yumi+wall has never been a proper way to deal with jap counter civs at high level, since civs like Russia or Aztecs can just go semi rush with contain or age and cut corners with the unit combo or just go full eco since Japan is not retarded like on RE with bugged shogunate.

Also Japan is not bad nor good, now. It's probably just in the middle but faded in popularity just because players are testing other civs that got buffed.
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Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1317
ESO: gamevideo113

12 Nov 2017, 19:49

I agree with garja, with 10 possible levels on the voting scale for civs (and since they are numbers it is even harder to interpret the scale) many voters will use the scale differently, So the final data won't be very indicative imo (some will vote from 1 to 10, others will vote from 6 to 9 etc). E.g. I think that the balance in EP between the strongest civ and the wakest civ is way less significant than on RE, but how do i express this? Should i vote from 5 to 8 to indicate that there is not a huge difference between the ends of the spectrum or should i still use the whole 1-10 scale with 1 for the weakest civ and 10 for the strongest? To vote i'd rather have a different scale, such as:
-Significantly overpowered;
-Slightly overpowered;
-Overall balanced;
-Slightly underpowered;
-Significantly underpowered;

I think it would also be easier to obtain significant data with similar voting options, since it would be hard to misunderstand the poll.
5 options would be enough in my opinion, i am convinced that at this point in EP's history balance issues are way less significant than actual in game decision, most of the times the losing player made bad decisions/took bad fights. As far as i can tell there isn't really any hopeless matchup.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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United States of America Cometk
Tournament Admin
Posts: 4404
ESO: DJ_Cometk
Location: California

12 Nov 2017, 19:51

i liked hazza's idea of strelet auto-vet upgrade upon aging to 3
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Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1317
ESO: gamevideo113

12 Nov 2017, 19:58

I was also speaking to interjection about this, possibly some age3 politician could provide the veteran upgrade for some units in order to become a viable alternative to the exiled prince (e.g. 4 huss --> 2 huss + vet huss upgrade for free).
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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Turkey HUMMAN
Lancer
Posts: 743
ESO: HUMMAN

12 Nov 2017, 21:00

For russia church card there is an upgrade, so it wouldnt be elegant(nerfing church card). And i think right now any civ can be good in a certain map. All civs cant be equal in arkansas. And overall civs are ok i think, and i believe otto is undiscovered in new patch. Still funny to go bottom from top.
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Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794

12 Nov 2017, 21:03

Cometk wrote:i liked hazza's idea of strelet auto-vet upgrade upon aging to 3


That's standardization....
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8992
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

12 Nov 2017, 21:27

Let's go with westernization instead:

– Westernization unique Church improvement cost reduced from 900w to 600w.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

Blue-haired girl being slain

'This is no declaration, I just thought I'd let you know goodbye'
Said the hero in the story
'It is mightier than swords. I could kill you sure, but I could only make you cry with these words'
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7900
ESO: Garja

12 Nov 2017, 21:47

Westernization is already quite an efficient card. It's unaviability has more to do with the fact that you need to time the card well and in most cases it's not possible to plan it in advance, even at 600w cost.
Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6398
ESO: PrinceofBabu

12 Nov 2017, 21:58

its a shipment in colonial whilst aging to fortress and 900w, why would you ever send it
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United States of America Hidddy_
Retired Contributor
Posts: 379
ESO: Hidalgito
Location: Miami, Florida, USA

12 Nov 2017, 23:06

6 starting vils for russia would be best fix imo
De Funk
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United States of America Hidddy_
Retired Contributor
Posts: 379
ESO: Hidalgito
Location: Miami, Florida, USA

12 Nov 2017, 23:09

900w for essentially 3 unit upgrades (who makes vet grens as russia?) is not so good especially since you need to send a 1000 res card (the shipment could instead be used in fort)
De Funk
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United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1347
ESO: Anonymous_01
Location: United States

12 Nov 2017, 23:16

I think one of the better ways to do it would just be to reduce the cost of the veteran upgrades for musk/coss/strel from 200/200 to 100/100 or 100/200.

Also the way of the bow nerf needs to go IMO, and replaced with changing the golden pavilion from affecting upgraded stats to affecting base stats. Currently that card does so little that it's really awkward to send in early fortress.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8992
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

12 Nov 2017, 23:21

Garja wrote:Westernization is already quite an efficient card. It's unaviability has more to do with the fact that you need to time the card well and in most cases it's not possible to plan it in advance, even at 600w cost.
The problem is that it costs an entire shipment and then you have to pay for researching it.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

Blue-haired girl being slain

'This is no declaration, I just thought I'd let you know goodbye'
Said the hero in the story
'It is mightier than swords. I could kill you sure, but I could only make you cry with these words'
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7900
ESO: Garja

12 Nov 2017, 23:24

I wouldn't use it even if it was for free because the problem is how to sneak the card in the build.
Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6398
ESO: PrinceofBabu

12 Nov 2017, 23:58

how i rate civs on the current ep and what i think i disagree with/solutions to balancing these civs
otto:
rating: 2
The previous ep i thought they were balanced, they were strong but not on par with brits and dutch and ger, two of which werent even touched this time round. imho the worst civilisation currently due to literally all their strats being weakened, (4mams, jan hp nerf, abus rof- abus arent even fun to use anymore).
suggestion: revert to previous ep status
Russia:
rating: 3
Not a very strong civ either, can only punish greedy strats on specific maps and their eco options are in general too slow. they can semi ff with 2 tps but then have to spend at least 800res on upgrading their (relevant) units strel/cossack, most russian players go vet musk falc early fort because this is all they can afford in terms of upgrades and obviously this is a suboptimal unit combo vs skirm goon.
suggestions: revert back to 17 strel but gives them veteran upgrade, or reduce vill train time by 5seconds.
india:
rating: 5
people can argue india got a huge buff, I personally think they were only buffed a little with the cheaper sowars and houses, the sepoy nerf I still find unnecessary and is further making the meta rather bland (imo), and is a huge nerf to what defines india.
Suggestions: revert sepoy and house change
Jap:
Rating :6
A good civ overall but with a lot of counter civs and a decent amount of indirect and direct nerfs to this civ. (yumi hp age3, shogunate, general slowness, superior maps)
Suggestions: revert yumi nerf for now
Iro:
Rating: 6.5
They can be fairly good vs some civs, for example dutch fre ger, however I still feel theyre near the middle of the pack.
Suggestions: not sure
Aztec:
Rating:7
Fairly good civ overall, very good in niche situations e.g. no tp low hunt maps, however still lose to a large portion of the top civs (French, ger, ports, brits, Sioux, china).
Suggestions: give covermode back to hero, fix healing dance to idle units and not also hero doing situps. Not sure what else.
spain
rating:7.5
seem a decent civ, atp makes they excell at, spanish gold seems irrelevent and random in most MUs.
suggestions: not sure
China
Rating: 8
Strong civ, do well in most Mus and breakeven with most civs at the higher end of the tier list.
Suggestions: leave them how they are
Sioux
Rating :8
Dislike how this civ has been completely revamped from RE, not major gameplay changes my ass.
Suggestions: revert to re, nerf br hp, give them 5vill, steel traps in the market
French
Rating :8
Solid civ, very versatile, around the area in which we should be balancing to be honest, no changes
Ports
rating:8
very good civ, espeically on high hunt/high tp maps, on par or maybe slightly better with current france and germany
suggestions: not sure
Germany
Rating: 8
Way too strong on previous eps (that didn’t involve uhlan hp changes), however nerfing uhlan hp like ive said numerous times is not the right way to nerf them, especially since that unit has barely any hp for a cav unit anyway. Dop change is irrelevant in most Mus, can be good vs Russia azzy and possibly other age 2 matchups, maybe vs china also but that’s about it. This civ just isn’t fun to play with shitty uhlans
Suggestions: revert uhlan and dopp change, increase uhlan cost or nerf their civ bonus (1 less uhlan per shipment e.g. 8uhlan 7uhlan 8 skirm+2 uhlan etc…)
Dutch:
Rating :9
Way too strong but never touched, too easy to get such a strong eco and get away with it with the bank wall and fast age up, the build is just too fast and accelerates too quickly with the xp generated and the cheaper banks
Solutions: reduce xp generated from building banks (ofc reduce kill xp accordingly)
Brits:
Rating :10
Easily the best civ, probably no counter civs (why we saw so many brit mirrors last tourney and with germany and india being nerfed this is likely to increase)
Solutions: reduce manor xp when building, increase manor cost or maybe increase lb cost.
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Catalonia Vinyanyérë
ESOC Community Team
Donator 06
Posts: 1131
ESO: duolckrad, Kuvira
Location: California, U.S.

13 Nov 2017, 00:05

@Hazza54321 thoughts on spanish/ports?
duck
Vinyanyérë
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8992
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

14 Nov 2017, 13:48

rump
Effective ESOC Patch notes

Blue-haired girl being slain

'This is no declaration, I just thought I'd let you know goodbye'
Said the hero in the story
'It is mightier than swords. I could kill you sure, but I could only make you cry with these words'

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