How should Otto be buffed?

[Hazza54321]

Otto should have trainable spahi!

[Kaiserklein]

Cynical remarks put aside, this entire direction of buffs is completely insane to me.

RE Otto was a civ that would use its efficient start its efficient units to compensate for falling behind in eco. With free vills, they're very fast in the early stages of the game which results in them usually forcing other civs to play less economically. And with how strong Jans and Abus were, it was okay for them to be behind in economy. Jans and abus might have been a little bit too strong though, but in principle this design is totally fine.

It's not fine though. The civ always played really all in on RE. An all in civ is a headache to balance, because either the timing works or it doesn't. Think about spain for example, on nilla it was OP, on RE it's garbage. That's only a matter of a couple extra units on nilla basically. The same applies for otto (or sioux to some extent) if you give them zero economic option. Spain is much more balanced on EP now because they do have some more economic options, while still having better aggressive options than on RE, but slightly worse ones than on nilla.
Besides balance, being all in also means a one dimensional playstyle. If you have no follow up, you have very little choice in the strats you go for. Like on RE otto is just extremely dumb, it's basically always aggro ff or super aggro colo builds. On EP you have some variety at least. After all, the all in builds are definitely still viable on EP anyway, just a bit weaker, but there's also other builds now.

Of course then if you nerf their strongest units too much, it might feel as if they struggle economically. But then the solution isn't to buff their economy or to give them weird economic options, the solution is to just revert some of these earlier nerfs. I know abus and jans were over the top on RE, but as it stands on EP you rarely see Jan/Abus colonial play anymore. Design wise this style was totally fine on RE, it was just a bit OP. But right now on EP, it doesn't even seem viable.

Jans and abus are barely nerfed tbh, and abus especially are still very strong on EP. You do see colonial jan abus on EP btw, it's probably the most common build, it's totally viable. But you do see a bunch of other builds that you'd never see on RE.

[aqwer]

Otto should have trainable spahi!

Idk its troll but it is a good change otto needed.

[Guigs]

Otto should have trainable spahi!

Idk its troll but it is a good change otto needed.

no

[Cometk]

how would you revert abus/jan without it becoming broken again

By only partially reverting some of the abus nerfs?

give them 3.25 rof instead of 3.5 (EP) or 3.0 (RE)?

[aqwer]

how would you revert abus/jan without it becoming broken again

By only partially reverting some of the abus nerfs?

give them 3.25 rof instead of 3.5 (EP) or 3.0 (RE)?

3.5 is okay, increase hp by 10

[Hazza54321]

Lol

[Guigs]

Show hidden quotes

how would you revert abus/jan without it becoming broken again

By only partially reverting some of the abus nerfs?

give them 3.25 rof instead of 3.5 (EP) or 3.0 (RE)?

3.5 is okay, increase hp by 10

You're the dude spamming "play otto" in every single twitch chat right ?
Otto is a niche civ, and they are good at what they do, they don't need any change really and especially not making fucking trainable spahis or buffing abus

[Garja]

how would you revert abus/jan without it becoming broken again

By only partially reverting some of the abus nerfs?

give them 3.25 rof instead of 3.5 (EP) or 3.0 (RE)?

why not 3.166666667 now that we are at it.
Seriously I think abus were fine on RE with just some base damage nerf (would help more balancing vs their counters e.g. cav).
As for eco options, otto always had them bit kn EP they need a revamo because games last more than 15 mins and Otto military has been rightfully nerfed.

[Papist]

Why not revert the abus ROF nerf but increase the negative multiplier against cav to make them do .25 of their base damage instead of .5? That would put their damage output more on par with skirmishers, while allowing them to retain a marginal advantage that would reflect their higher cost and pop space.

[Mr_Bramboy]

tRaInAbLe SpAhI

[princeofkabul]

make spahi abus great again

[Sargsyan]

give +1 spahi with every shipment(including discovery age)

[Amsel_]

What changes have been made to the mosque on EP? I was going to say that I wouldn't mind the ability to create a viable non-TP economy, but I don't remember any changes beyond the resource trickle, so it would be silly to suggest changes atm.

[dansil92]

Give jans 2x vs cav at range and 6x in melee. Remove all negative multipliers on abus, including vs vills. Spahi trainable in colonial. 2 great bombards moved to fortress age.

/sarcasm

Otto is fine, though i agree with above to slightly decrease default villager spawn time. Cav archers may need some touch-ups but otto is legit in a good place right now. I dont think there is any need to standardize it.

5 abus -> 6 abus shipment is the perhaps 1 change it needs right now. (Or pull a china-style shipment and have it be 5 abus+veterancy.)

[chronique]

(Or pull a china-style shipment and have it be 5 abus+veterancy.)

No please don't do that!!!!!

[aqwer]

Otto is fine, though i agree with above to slightly decrease default villager spawn time. Cav archers may need some touch-ups but otto is legit in a good place right now. I dont think there is any need to standardize it.

5 abus -> 6 abus shipment is the perhaps 1 change it needs right now. (Or pull a china-style shipment and have it be 5 abus+veterancy.)

Agree with slight decrease in vil train time, maybe from 48 to 45 train points.
Cav archers needs either a bit attack increase or 1 pop or change to "irregulars" card to give +2 range.
5 abus to 6 is necessary, second solution is good too.

[howlingwolfpaw]

something to do with spahi

[Astaroth]

Otto TC should train free Spahi automatically, starting in age2, whenever a vill is trained.

[KaanHoca]

Abus Guns shouldnt do 0,75 against Light Cav , while normal Light Infantry does normally 1,5 against it and abus guns are 2 Pop, The only unit who can Fight light cav is janns and janns suck at damage to cav anyways

[[Armag] diarouga]

Lol. Except LI doesn't rape LI and artillery.
Also, current abus molest goons.

[zoom]

Otto should have trainable spahi!

Spahis shouldn't be trainable; they should train automatically and free of charge, just like Ottoman Settlers!

[Hazza54321]

Hwll fucking yeah they should , maybe ut will keep aqwer motherfuvking quiet

[zoom]

We can only hope...

[princeofcarthage]

On side note India should have trainable urumi too...