My EP Balance Changes

[saveyourskill]

Goodspeed read what I sumbited in the poll. Now I have actually something for him to read.(If he wants)
So now I better give a better idea of what I think can be done in my opinion.
So keep that in mind.


All Civs:
10 pikemen and 10 crossbowmen shipments changed from giving 10 to giving 11 of them. (12 from a shipment to 10????)
Gills nets costs 10 wood and 10 coin more. (15% to fish and whales for 90w 90c is maybe just a bit too good. Hunting dogs costs 50w 50c for 10% only for food)
4 canoe shipment changed from 4 to 5 or more. (Compare this shipment to 2 caravels. 400w to 600w 200c)
Halberdier melee resistance changed from 10% to 20%. (thought they could use a buff as no buddy uses them. I feel like they can be a more tanker than a pikeman)
With native scout snare removed, Advanced Scouts now gives native scouts snare.
1 Covered wagon shipment now gives 2 settlers/2cdb. (and maybe some cows?) (this shipment is bad and with TCs costing less now it's even worst)

Consulate besteiros get a x1.25 multiplier against heavy infantry.
Port consulate tech fishing fleet cost changed from 250 export to 200 export(or 225). Just comparing 4 settlers(300 export) to 3 fishing boats for cost.
Maybe change german consulate trickles from 250 export to 225 export or 200 export.
British consulate bonus changed from 10% to 8% increase to hitpoints.(10% to all units for 200w 100 export is pretty strong)

If crossbowmen and pikemen need a small buff i would give crossbowmen a x1.5 multiplier against heavy infantry and pikemen 20% melee resistance.

If rice paddies cost 400w and mills cost 400w for just food maybe mills should cost 300w or rice paddies cost 500w.
Farms can cost 50w more or stay the same cost as mills.
Plantations cost changed from 800w to 500w at least. Not only do you have to be in age 3 but, it also costs 800w.
I had some warship changes but on ep they nerfed them so no need to talk about it here for now.


British:
Longbowmen damage changed from 17 to 16or 15(Maybe down to 15 if arrow units don't miss). Longbowmen multiplier against heavy infantry changed from x1.25 to x1.5. (I feel like they should be better against musks and doppels while making them not as strong vs skirms as they did so much dmg so fast)
Yeomen shipment gives 5% more hitpoints to longbows. (Yeomen shipment didn't really give much as far as what you got from it right away)
8 Longbows shipment changed from 8 to 9 longbows.(Why have 10lb then have it go down to 8lb?)

Manor houses cost 140w-150w. (Brit is a bit too strong right now and making their houses cost more will help to balance them)

Could make them get a fixed crate start of 200w so they can't have an explosive start as the 300w start can be with wood treasures.
Also with 300w start you can get a tp and a house, age maybe a bit slower(10 sec) but, while aging you send Virginia Company (after 3v) and get more
settlers while aging and for the rest of the game you get cheaper houses that give free settlers and the xp from the house and tp.


Portuguese:
Gunpowder infantry attack shipment moved to fortress. (15% more attack to just musks and cass in age 3 is fine as other civs have much better upgrades than this in age 3 and even in age 2)

Cassadores now get colonial base stats. (because you can get vet cass in age 2 with team early skirms)
Cassadores colonial stats would be 89 hp giving them 106.8 hp in age 3. Or could do 88 hp giving them 105.6 hp in age 3 but I don't want to hit them hard for age 4 wars.
Thier damage would be 15 giving them 18 damage in age 3. Or 16 damage giving them 19.2 damage in age 3, thou this may be too much.

Idea - Genitours could be changed to give plus 2 range to goons and 10% more to hp and dmg. Or give plus 2 range and 15%-20% more to hp.
Giving them 10% more dmg in late game means they could run around and kill vills faster so, perhaps just hp is fine.
(I think 18 range goons is still a bit too much imo)


Dutch:
Max settler limit changed from 50 to 60. (late game eco for Dutch on re is bad but, they get 51 more pop to spend on units... if they can even gather fast enough to use that extra pop. This will help them for their late game eco)
Starting bank limit 4. (On nilla I think Dutch is one of the best civs and they only get 4 banks. Now with the banks giving them more xp I think this change is fine)
Bank of Amsterdam and Bank of Rotterdam now give plus 1 to bank limit and 5% to bank gathering trickle. (these cards are just not worth putting them in your deck as I have never sent them in 1v1 and don't really do much for awhile)
7 ruyter shipment changed from 7 to 8 ruyters. (7 ruyter shipment lul)
Dutch east India company shipment changed bank hitpoints increase from 100% to 50% and bank food and wood cost from 15% to 25%. (just giving more card options as this card is never used)
Team spice trade hunting gather rates changed from 10% to 15%. Why? Team furrier does the same thing but is in age 1.
Tulip Speculation rate changed from 15% to 25%. (this was the only way to make your banks gather faster before. You can make settlers gather faster with cards and improves but not banks. 15% to 6 banks is giving you an extra bank and comparing than to a factory isn't even close so I think a this card should be buffed)
With these changes to banks and settler limit, Dutch will be around 96v(not counting factories as all euro civs have 2 of them) eco late game with Tulip and both plus 1 bank cards.
Idea - Make bank trickle gather slower but they are cheaper.(also meaning you get less xp from banks as they cost less)


Germany:
War wagons get colonial stats. (because you can make age 3 war wagons in age 2 with team early goons)
Age 3 politician for 3 doppes now gives 4. (comparing the cost to aging with 4 huss, 600 to 800)

Make them get 1 less uhlan from shipments? Goes for mercs as well. Not sure what to do about merc cards then. - idea
Can remove the 8% more xp to get a shipment nerf to Germany if you only get 1 uhlan.

Uhlan attack changed to 36-35. If 35 attack would still be highest attack dmg if the axe rider would do 34-33 dmg after their changes if wanted.
(This is with uhlans having 190hp or 185hp)


Ottomans:
Janissary hand multiplier against cavalry changed to x2.5 from x2. (Comparing jan to sepoy. Sepoy get x3 and better range attack so they are just so much better vs cav. Jans just don't punish cav hard enough)
5 Abus guns shipment gives 6 instead now. (With the abus nerf this card should be on par with 8 skirms, 900res(6 abus) to 920res(8skirm). otto doesn't get another abus shipment in age 3. Also just compare 5 huss to 5 abus cost wise for a shipment. So I thought this card could be buffed up a bit as otto can be lacking in age 3 skirm wars)
6 Jans shipment gives 7 instead now. (8 jan to 6 jan why?)
Age 3 politician for 4 abus guns now gives 5 abus guns. (cost wise 4 abus guns(600) to 6 skirms(690) and 4 huss(800)
Not many people ff with otto anymore and with the jan hp nerf and mameluke shipment nerfed I think these changes are just nice to have.

Abus gun range attack damage changed from 40 to 30. Siege attack changed from 15 to 18.(They are like a mini cannon so it makes sense to have their siege attack better)
Abus gun multipliers for range attack and hand attack: to cav changed from x0.5 to x0.6, to light inf changed from x0.5 to x0.6. to hev inf changed from x1.5 to x1.7.
Abus gun range attack multiplier vs light cav changed from x1.5 to x1.7.
I think it's okay for 10 abus to snipe a cannon as they are like a mini cannon anyways but, i'm not too sure.
On ep I think it makes sense to have them shoot slower as they are like a mini cannon and cannons reload slower.
But for balance I think they should go back to shooting the same rate and make their damage less and make their multipliers better.
Abus guard upgrade doesn't cost food anymore.


Iroquois:
War chief aura changed from giving 15% more hitpoints to 10%. (15%hp to all units is basically an age 4 shipment in age 2)
6 forest prowlers shipment changed to 7 forest prowlers. (Just a nice buff for them in age 3 skirm wars)
Tomahawk damage changed from 19 to 21. (just comparing them to musk. they were lacking a bit)
Maybe give tomahawks more hp and less attack(from musks) to make them a bit different from musk. (160hp 20att?)


Sioux:
Warchief speed aura changed from 15% to 12%. (would still be faster than camels just barely)
Axe Rider -1 dmg and plus 10 hp or -2 dmg and plus 20-25hp.
Big button for the tc is 1 DS for every 3 minutes now. Before the frist DS would take 2 minutes then the next 3 minutes.

Tashunke Prowler hand attack now has x2 bonus against artillery. Their hp changed from 170 to 190.
Give Tashunke Prowler champion upgrade and legendary upgrade. Legendary upgrade should cost 1000w 1000c for them as you are limited on how many you can make.
Sioux didn't have a good answer to cannons other than mass cav so cannons are useless to them or having to run your cav into their army to snipe them. They can spend 900res in the fire pit to make their war chief deal with cannons or 750 res in the stable BB to give all cav x2 against cannons. Tash Prowlers having stealth means they can take down cannons cost effectively. And to counter just keep your hero near your cannons.


Aztec:
11 macehualtins shipment changed from 11 to 12. 7 coyote runners shipment changed from 7 to 8. 10 coyote runners shipment changed from 10 to 9.
Arrow Knights siege attack changed from 36 to 40. AK Range attack changed from 10 to 12. AK hand attack changed from 6 to 8. (AK just sucked at what they do tbh. This should help)


Japan:
Ashigaru hand attack increase by 1. (costing more than euro musks and doing less dmg to cav didn't help them go up against hand cav)
Yumi archer attack shipment changed from 20% to 15%. Way of the bow shipment for hitpoints to yumi changed from 15% to 10%. (Yumi just got pumped up a bit too strong with the upgrade cards and wonder bonus, this should balance them a bit so they don't seem like they are the best anti cav in the game. Also why have way of the bow just give plus 2 range? I totally took that card out of all my ep decks for japan)
Close combat shipment for ashigaru hitpoints changed from 15% to 10%.
Naginata rider hitpoints shipment changed from giving naginata riders 30% more hitpoints to 25% more hitpoints.
Golden Pavilion goes off of base stats.
I feel like Japanese units in age 3 with these cards were too cost effective and felt unkillable.

Nanban trade for Spain consulate cost changed from 450 export to 350 export. Tercio melee resistance changed from 10% to 20%. (7 pike costs less than 6 musk but the same amount of export in the consulate, so giving them a small buff to make them feel a bit more equal)
Reiki tech cost changed from 200w 100c to 100w 100c.
Intonjutsu stealth tech changed to just make Japanese monks get smoke screen 25% faster, 10% more speed, stealth and cost changed to 100w 100c from 200w 200c.
Kyudo tech gives just a multiplier of x10 against mercenaries and heroes. Kyudo cost changed from 500w 500c to 250w 250c. (Japan only has ninjas to counter mercs and hero)
Japanese villagers gather 5% faster for berries than other civs. (others have been talking about a change like this and I think it make sense as Dutch gather coin from mines faster anyways and this will make them feel more consistent in age up time)


China:
Disciplined coin cost increased to 100c from 50c. (100w 50c is pretty cheap for a 20% to hp and dmg)
Mandarin duck squad shipment cost changed from 500f to 400f.
Iron cap princes' army cost changed from 1000f to 800f.
China explorer cover mode removed. (pretty much god mode)


India:
Sowar hitpoints changed from 225 to 235. (comparing to other cav units this one is lacking for sure)
Sowars should cost 80f 80c as uhlans and cossacks cost 150 total, sowars should be a bit different than costing the same as a cossack.(ep)

Rajput hand resistance changed from 20% to 30%. Rejput siege damage changed from 20 to 24. May even have them get 10 more hitpoints.
Rajput multiplier against cavalry changed from x3 to x3.5. Rajput multiplier against light infantry changed from x2.25 to x2.5. (unit stats for the cost is just poor)

Siege elephant damage changed to 50 from 40. (they just tickled other units)
Multiplier against artillery changed from x2.5 to x2.
Multiplier against buildings changed from x10 to x8.
Multiplier against ships changed from x8 to x6.5 (5 damage more to ships).
Light cavalry tag removed. (or increase their range resistance)
Perhaps increase range from 28 to 30, would make their range equal to (re)frigates.

Team 5 urumi shipment changed to 4 urumi and cost changed from 600f to 500f. (way to strong in team)
Mansabdar buff goes off of base stats. (maybe change it from 10% hp and dmg to 15% since it only effects that one unit)
Disciplined upgrades cost 100 coin more. (why do tad civs have 100c cheaper vet upgrades than euro civs?)
Improved healing cost changed from 250f 250c to 100f 100c.

Could make the Discipline upgrade for the zamburak cost like 220w 220c to 250w 250c or 200w 250c since it gets a x2.25 against artillery when upgraded. (just an idea)
Gurkhas get an extra 1 range from each age upgrade so the cost could be increase by 20w 20c if needed.
Just thought to add those last two in if changes are needed.


Just want to thank the team as they have done a good job balancing the game and bug fixes comparing it to re patch.
Same goes with the maps team as just comparing the re maps to ep maps it's just crazy how much better the ep maps are.

That's it for now.

[tedere12]

I'm confused. Are you going to make your own patch and implement these changes or this is a suggestion?

[momuuu]

Shit patch

[saveyourskill]

I'm confused. Are you going to make your own patch and implement these changes or this is a suggestion?

"My EP Balance Changes"
Changes to ep and suggestions

[momuuu]

Lock thred lls mods

[tedere12]

I'm confused. Are you going to make your own patch and implement these changes or this is a suggestion?

"My EP Balance Changes"
Changes to ep and suggestions

Would you mind justifying your suggestions? I'm having a hard time understanding the point behind most of them.

[gamevideo113]

Some of these ideas are reasonable imo but this whole list would make the game too different from its original state. Patches that strive too far from the original game need to be enforced to the community or they will simply die.

[saveyourskill]

I'm confused. Are you going to make your own patch and implement these changes or this is a suggestion?

"My EP Balance Changes"
Changes to ep and suggestions

Would you mind justifying your suggestions? I'm having a hard time understanding the point behind most of them.

Is it better now?

[Garja]

Most of those changes are reasonable.
However, lot of them are based on standardization, essentially removing all the little nuances of unique units (e.g lbows multiplier, ashi and jan hand attack, etc.). Most of those "exceptions" are design choices that complement other features of the same unit or of the civ in general.
Also bear in mind that the EP has to stick to the RE patch as much as possible, so such a long list could never be adopted. Ideally we should make at most 2-3 basic tweaks for each civ.

[saveyourskill]

Also bear in mind that the EP has to stick to the RE patch as much as possible, so such a long list could never be adopted. Ideally we should make at most 2-3 basic tweaks for each civ.

What about the very small changes? And having vet cass and vet war wagons in age 2. I feel like that's kinda of a bug in a way.
The Sioux BB also is just misleading as it says every 3 minutes but you can get 3 DS at 8min.
A good amount of the changes are just to shipments no buddy ever uses.

[Mitoe]

Don't really like many of the changes, to be honest. Feels like most of these changes are just trying to standardize everything.

It's okay for civs to have a couple of strong shipments (10 coyote), and also some weaker ones (8 longbow). Same for techs. Same for units. Just because a unit isn't exactly in line with other units of the same type doesn't mean it needs to be changed: these differences encourage more diverse unit compositions across civilizations, and often help compensate for other strengths or weaknesses.

[Goodspeed]

Many of these changes are standardizing and/or high impact. If you made a patch like this in a community this small, you would lose grasp on balance guaranteed. Two years later you would likely end up having to admit balance is worse than on RE patch.
Appreciate the suggestions though. Some of these are good changes.

[Hazza54321]

Yeah @saveyourskill , they rather delete and make a new civ than “standardize” civs

[stronk]

Show hidden quotes

I'm confused. Are you going to make your own patch and implement these changes or this is a suggestion?

"My EP Balance Changes"
Changes to ep and suggestions

Would you mind justifying your suggestions? I'm having a hard time understanding the point behind most of them.

Is it better now?

Yes

[saveyourskill]

I just like a good counter system rather than making lb to counter musk(How do you counter musk in age 2 as brit? make musk lol) only for them to get owned. Same goes with ottos only age 2 anti cav unit only having a x2 against cav, and etc. Some of the changes on EP to me seem standardizing. You could say i'm standardizing them yeah but, i'm not making jans have a x3 against cav like all other musks. But if any civ should have it, it should be otto as that's their only anti cav unit in age 2. I'm okay with x2.5 thou. LBs don't have x2 like skirms do still with my changes. Uhlans still have the highest attack for a cav unit in age 2. Etc
I think all shipments in the game should have some value to them and not being useless. Some of the changes are to give more options to the civ on what they can do rather than just doing the same old thing over and over again but with the slightest change in BO.
I am okay with jans not doing well against lancers as lancers are an age 3 unit just like cannons and most civs don't have a good counter to that tech in age 2. Another thing is why does the TWC and TAD civs not have an answer to mercs while euro civs do?
I do not understand why the patch has removed team cheaper fishing boats for Aztec totally. Why not just have it do something rather than be a waste of space. Same goes with the way of the bow for Japan, age 3 shipment giving just 2 range to one unit. Sure it can help against skirms but it doesn't really do much at all. Plus 2 range for yumis or 9 yumis? Hmmm interesting.
500w TCs now? Don't understand this change really at all as it's just making these semi FF games go longer and more greedy. But plantations still cost 800w... You buff doppels but not halbs? Doppels see more play than halbs before the buff.
Sioux getting 5v shipment now, next let's give otto 5v, then Dutch. That isn't standardizing? (a lot of civs get 5v shipment worth or more aka 3SW)

Some of my changes are to just give more options and make the game more diverse. But if you want to stay close to the RE patch I can understand.
Not saying my changes are the best but at least suggestions to think about.

(Arrow knights still suck btw)
(2 pikes cost less and do more siege damage(to building) then a grenadier)

[Garja]

Lbow do counter musks in mass, like..hard. It's just on small numbers that they can powerplayed and that is actually fine in the end.
Ye smoothening things might help but what's best is notcrystal clear. To me jans are ok this way because they have high hp and abus high attack, they complement well. Same with ashi and yumi.
Team fishing boats was a complain by some noob team player. Makes no sense to nerf it as it is already bad.
500w TCs is GS stuff. Totally unecessary and not in the patch spirit at all but it turned out to be entertaining at least so cba arguing whether it should be reverted or not.
Way of the bow is still a good card, yumi are OP and +2 range is still valuable.
Dopp buff was to compensate for ulhans.
Sioux 5v is arguable but can make sense because other TWC civs have it. Can give it to Otto and Dutch too if we want. Would actually be a decent buff for Dutch (5v can go on wood and you can sdd more pikes for colonial play for example) and for Otto as well, while also compensating for other nerfs (back to 4 banks and abus damage nerf).
AK do suck, I proposed lot of changes in your fashion for Aztec units since they have quite a problem in that sense.