iroquois caV weakness

[jgals]

has anyone thought of helping the poor little iroquois out vs late game gendarme by say, a card switching tomo cost to coin, an extra caV multi or buffing the lowly musket rider? in my experience iro have no chance vs a good caV civ in TR or late game

[Kaiserklein]

They have insane infantry, can't have everything

[forgrin]

Fully upped tomos are pretty good Vs cav. Cuirs are just op after when fully upped, and it's not just a problem for iro. Do you mean for treaty or rush?

[jgals]

Fully upped tomos are pretty good Vs cav. Cuirs are just op after when fully upped, and it's not just a problem for iro. Do you mean for treaty or rush?

Talking more about TR. fully upgraded tomo are not viable in TR because of wood shortage as iro. And the card conservative tactics is not in the TR deck because aenna suck and tomo cost wood which mean a you’ll be broke pretty soon. Also noticed that tomo could not make warhuts with battlefield construction maybe it’s a bug. Forest prowler stil could

[Lukas_L99]

Fully upped tomos are pretty good Vs cav. Cuirs are just op after when fully upped, and it's not just a problem for iro. Do you mean for treaty or rush?

Talking more about TR. fully upgraded tomo are not viable in TR because of wood shortage as iro. And the card conservative tactics is not in the TR deck because aenna suck and tomo cost wood which mean a you’ll be broke pretty soon. Also noticed that tomo could not make warhuts with battlefield construction maybe it’s a bug. Forest prowler stil could

That's why Iros have an infinite 1200 wood shipment on treaty patch. Also you do have conservative tactics in your deck since you should switch to aenna when your coin runs low, they're also better in skirm fights than forest prowlers cause of a faster rof.

And yes, tomas not being able to build is a bug on EP and TP for some reason.

[[Armag] diarouga]

This guy is a troll, just ignore him.

[edeholland]

I suggest you make a suggestion for the treaty patch, not the EP. EP has hardly any changes designed for late-game.

And by the looks of it, the treaty patch already solved this issue.

[jgals]

This guy is a troll, just ignore him.

how am I a troll for bringing up these valid points.

You at are just mad maybe because I did not swear undying loyalty to the Epatch and instead raised valid criticisms

[Hazza54321]

toma in melee are like hatamotos

[forgrin]

This guy is a troll, just ignore him.

how am I a troll for bringing up these valid points.

You at are just mad maybe because I did not swear undying loyalty to the Epatch and instead raised valid criticisms

Diarouga likes to troll, don't take it personally. It has nothing to do with the EP because it's a treaty issue; treaty players have developed their own patch that you can get through the EP launcher that fixes these issues. They're not rolled into one because the metagames are so different that balancing both at the same time would be impossible, hence why the regular game is unbalanced. Many treaty players even at low-mid level play on the treaty patch so I suggest you try there.

[jgals]

This guy is a troll, just ignore him.

how am I a troll for bringing up these valid points.

You at are just mad maybe because I did not swear undying loyalty to the Epatch and instead raised valid criticisms

Diarouga likes to troll, don't take it personally. It has nothing to do with the EP because it's a treaty issue; treaty players have developed their own patch that you can get through the EP launcher that fixes these issues. They're not rolled into one because the metagames are so different that balancing both at the same time would be impossible, hence why the regular game is unbalanced. Many treaty players even at low-mid level play on the treaty patch so I suggest you try there.

K I haven’t tried treaty patch I’ll look into those notes. Wonder why people are still hosting on regular patch

[jgals]

toma in melee are like hatamotos

Lol. Not vs FU lancer dog soldier or cuir , they are better than musks tho

[P i k i l i c]

Why are you bringing FU lancers, dog soldiers and gendarmes to the topic, this is irrelevant since even in sup you're supposed to counter them with goon units, would be a problem if heavy inf countered them

[jgals]

because musket rider totally suck and fuck the iro economy big time to make. They require sending new ways just to get enough range to even shoot at enemy cav and usless cav combat cards to bring them up to anywhere near the usefulness of a dragoon and still fall way short. and like I said iroqois eco gets fukd being that their late game gold gathering is horrendous.

[Lukas_L99]

because musket rider totally suck and fuck the iro economy big time to make. They require sending new ways just to get enough range to even shoot at enemy cav and usless cav combat cards to bring them up to anywhere near the usefulness of a dragoon and still fall way short. and like I said iroqois eco gets fukd being that their late game gold gathering is horrendous.

Musket rider stats are actually better than portuguese jinetes with all cards sent+attack dance+war chief aura, they just get 14 range only.
They're coin heavy but thanks to fur trade iros usually have lots of coin to work with.
In treaty you always send new ways anyways cause that card gives forest prowlers x3 vs heavy inf.

By the way all answers I'm giving are for treaty, but I also doubt Iros have any troubles vs cav in sup.

[yemshi]

iro dont have any weakness in sup

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea musket riders are better than goons cost effectively. They cost gold and it sucks, true, but on the other hand you have tomas who're better vs cav than musks, so what's the issue?
I mean, as Iro you definitely don't have a weakness vs cav compared to Japan/Russia/Germany.

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Yea musket riders are better than goons cost effectively. They cost gold and it sucks, true, but on the other hand you have tomas who're better vs cav than musks, so what's the issue?
I mean, as Iro you definitely don't have a weakness vs cav compared to Japan/Russia/Germany.

Hey, I'll report a phrase you wrote down in your french guide "Open with a stable knowing that Iro's anti cav isn't the best, and try to age when you stabilise" hm , is it me or I see a contradiction ?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Hum, just checked and I don't even remember why I wrote that. Anyway, Iro's anti cav isn't bad and starting cav isn't the best way to play it. I'd much rather open with a musk semi so that I can easily hold the toma/kanya rush.

Age 2 tomas are very weak vs cdb but they aren't vs cav though.

[lordraphael]

iro has no cav weakness. musket riders are just as good as skirms with wc aura even better afaik.

[princeofcarthage]

iro has no cav weakness. musket riders are just as good as skirms with wc aura even better afaik.

Musket riders are goon type units, skirms are well skirms, I don't understand your comparison

[jgals]

because musket rider totally suck and fuck the iro economy big time to make. They require sending new ways just to get enough range to even shoot at enemy cav and usless cav combat cards to bring them up to anywhere near the usefulness of a dragoon and still fall way short. and like I said iroqois eco gets fukd being that their late game gold gathering is horrendous.

Musket rider stats are actually better than portuguese jinetes with all cards sent+attack dance+war chief aura, they just get 14 range only.
They're coin heavy but thanks to fur trade iros usually have lots of coin to work with.
In treaty you always send new ways anyways cause that card gives forest prowlers x3 vs heavy inf.

By the way all answers I'm giving are for treaty, but I also doubt Iros have any troubles vs cav in sup.

A .range is a big deal. its worth a ton of other stat points. B you aren't going to send all the cards in sup
C you aren't going to have your warchief aura on musket riders in sup becuaase they are way faster and you aren't just fighting a pitched battle on orinoobo
D no one ever has 25 vils on the pit with war dance on every time or even most time they are using musket riders in SUp/ ever
E Iro don't do fur trade in sup so they literally have whatever is on the map before they are transitioning to terrible plantations, and MR actually cost MORE coin than goons. It's also hard on macro because Kanye cost wood if you want a meatshield for them.

Iro don't have so much trouble fighting cav as getting to cav. The mobility bonus of units on horses is kind of a big deal for map control. Just ask a Sioux player about that

[Lukas_L99]

because musket rider totally suck and fuck the iro economy big time to make. They require sending new ways just to get enough range to even shoot at enemy cav and usless cav combat cards to bring them up to anywhere near the usefulness of a dragoon and still fall way short. and like I said iroqois eco gets fukd being that their late game gold gathering is horrendous.

Musket rider stats are actually better than portuguese jinetes with all cards sent+attack dance+war chief aura, they just get 14 range only.
They're coin heavy but thanks to fur trade iros usually have lots of coin to work with.
In treaty you always send new ways anyways cause that card gives forest prowlers x3 vs heavy inf.

By the way all answers I'm giving are for treaty, but I also doubt Iros have any troubles vs cav in sup.

A .range is a big deal. its worth a ton of other stat points. B you aren't going to send all the cards in sup
C you aren't going to have your warchief aura on musket riders in sup becuaase they are way faster and you aren't just fighting a pitched battle on orinoobo
D no one ever has 25 vils on the pit with war dance on every time or even most time they are using musket riders in SUp/ ever
E Iro don't do fur trade in sup so they literally have whatever is on the map before they are transitioning to terrible plantations, and MR actually cost MORE coin than goons. It's also hard on macro because Kanye cost wood if you want a meatshield for them.

Iro don't have so much trouble fighting cav as getting to cav. The mobility bonus of units on horses is kind of a big deal for map control. Just ask a Sioux player about that

Iros don't have a problem with countering cav in sup or treaty. If you do you're doing something wrong, it's not the civ. Musket riders and tomahawks are enough.

[[Armag] diarouga]

They don't have a cav weakness on the RE anyway since they win every MU before they run out of coin lol

[jgals]

They don't have a cav weakness on the RE anyway since they win every MU before they run out of coin lol

yeah true, until you have to fight a water boom that holds out with one sliver of map