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India gh0st
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08 May 2018, 13:59

oh wow, another thread about Garja being Garja.
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Italy Garja
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08 May 2018, 14:04

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:Did you keep track of it? So far it's basically my word against yours.

I haven't but I will from now.
Still, here is what I can remember of:
1) Russia is tier 1
2) Rams are op
3) China colonial is good and can beat Brit's
4) Russia is op and rapes Germany, Aztecs and France on EP 1.0
5) Aztec FI is trash
6) Current EP Port is op
7) EP 1.0 Sioux were good
8) When playing water on the RE you should build one or two docks max, 3-4 is bad
9) Water is extremely good and viable as Aztecs, especially vs otto
10) bow/pike beats musk/huss

I'll stop here but could find a lot more.


I never said those things. Those are jsut meme created by you trying to make fun of me. Except it just shows how childish or simply plain stupid you are.

1) Russia is not tier 1. Russia is however just fine.
2) Rams are OP at sieging and in fact they are. Combined with strongest skirms and very high HP goons it measn you can quickly siege stuff while battling with the two other units. This gives Iro the option to no commit to cav in order to cause ecodamage when armies are about equal. I'm not surprised you can't understand this. After all you don't play Iro and you're simple not intelligent enough.
3) Yes China colonial is not bad. No TAD civ was provided with weak colonial. In fact no TAD civ is provided with any major design weakness compared to civs from nilla and twc. That's simply how they designed the expansion. As for beating Brits it will eventually do in a hypotetic late colonial scenario. Again the fact that you can't aknowledge that just shows how idiot you are claiming to be a top player but ignoring these basic things.
4) Never said anything of that. In general I never go that in detail and display that certainty about specific MUs. That's just your imagination.
5) Aztec FI is sort of trash ye. The fact that is highly abusable by just aging and clicking on shipments doesn't make it any less trash. With that said I use it myself from time to time and ye it's funny.
6) Current EP Port is OP in team. And it is. Their scaling in mid game is retarded. Most importantly tho, and you omitted it, their design is crap with cheaper vills.
7) EP 1 Sioux were better than what people thought. My games posted on this site prove that. Again don't ridicule yourself.
8) Ye let's waste 800w in docks to produce 30 boats, 10 of each will be idle after 5 min of booming because fish runs out so they have to talk for 1 minute to the other side of the map. Instead of just using 400w and building 20-25 and use the extra resources saved on land (or for earlier fishing upgrades).
9) Water is extremely good as Aztec. Period. And vs Otto is an option, under certain circumstances.
10) bow/pike beats musk/huss per cost, yes.

You are just a clown.
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Italy Garja
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08 May 2018, 14:05

[Armag] diarouga wrote:No, he dodged the showmatch because he knows he has no chance.

I didn't dodge shit. I'm playing every day, while you're just writing shit on forums.
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Italy Garja
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08 May 2018, 14:06

momuuu wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Guys can we reserve this thread for meaningful EP feedback please?

Tell that to garja. He has a pretty solid record of ruining serious aoe discussion with garjuments that make zero sense.

It's not my fault if my personality is 10 times yours and you have to attack me in mass because one by one you are worth zero.
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Netherlands momuuu
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08 May 2018, 14:11

Garja wrote:
momuuu wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Guys can we reserve this thread for meaningful EP feedback please?

Tell that to garja. He has a pretty solid record of ruining serious aoe discussion with garjuments that make zero sense.

It's not my fault if my personality is 10 times yours and you have to attack me in mass because one by one you are worth zero.

"Your personality is 10 times mine"? Are you trying to say you in fact have so much more ego (personality) than normal people that you can't think sensically? Seems like a decent analysis.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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08 May 2018, 14:30

Pls
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
XeeleeFlower wrote:I don't mind open endings as long as the story continues at some point
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Italy gamevideo113
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08 May 2018, 14:31

The problem here is that there is basically no change that can benefit Iro on non-TP maps only. The change umeu suggests makes them slightly too strong on TP maps with a wood start in my opinion.
(I'm also not sure why Iro being "unplayable" on non-TP maps is being brought up only now)
Eat pasta, run fasta :love:
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Netherlands momuuu
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08 May 2018, 14:36

Just ignore no TP maps. There's no point in handicapping yourself over a map style that is simply limiting in viable options.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Kiribati SirCallen
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08 May 2018, 14:39

Really feels like the old days.
"The desire for intimacy has biological roots and, in the great majority of people, persists from birth until death."
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France [Armag] diarouga
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08 May 2018, 14:50

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:Did you keep track of it? So far it's basically my word against yours.

I haven't but I will from now.
Still, here is what I can remember of:
1) Russia is tier 1
2) Rams are op
3) China colonial is good and can beat Brit's
4) Russia is op and rapes Germany, Aztecs and France on EP 1.0
5) Aztec FI is trash
6) Current EP Port is op
7) EP 1.0 Sioux were good
8) When playing water on the RE you should build one or two docks max, 3-4 is bad
9) Water is extremely good and viable as Aztecs, especially vs otto
10) bow/pike beats musk/huss

I'll stop here but could find a lot more.


I never said those things. Those are jsut meme created by you trying to make fun of me. Except it just shows how childish or simply plain stupid you are.

1) Russia is not tier 1. Russia is however just fine.
2) Rams are OP at sieging and in fact they are. Combined with strongest skirms and very high HP goons it measn you can quickly siege stuff while battling with the two other units. This gives Iro the option to no commit to cav in order to cause ecodamage when armies are about equal. I'm not surprised you can't understand this. After all you don't play Iro and you're simple not intelligent enough.
3) Yes China colonial is not bad. No TAD civ was provided with weak colonial. In fact no TAD civ is provided with any major design weakness compared to civs from nilla and twc. That's simply how they designed the expansion. As for beating Brits it will eventually do in a hypotetic late colonial scenario. Again the fact that you can't aknowledge that just shows how idiot you are claiming to be a top player but ignoring these basic things.
4) Never said anything of that. In general I never go that in detail and display that certainty about specific MUs. That's just your imagination.
5) Aztec FI is sort of trash ye. The fact that is highly abusable by just aging and clicking on shipments doesn't make it any less trash. With that said I use it myself from time to time and ye it's funny.
6) Current EP Port is OP in team. And it is. Their scaling in mid game is retarded. Most importantly tho, and you omitted it, their design is crap with cheaper vills.
7) EP 1 Sioux were better than what people thought. My games posted on this site prove that. Again don't ridicule yourself.
8) Ye let's waste 800w in docks to produce 30 boats, 10 of each will be idle after 5 min of booming because fish runs out so they have to talk for 1 minute to the other side of the map. Instead of just using 400w and building 20-25 and use the extra resources saved on land (or for earlier fishing upgrades).
9) Water is extremely good as Aztec. Period. And vs Otto is an option, under certain circumstances.
10) bow/pike beats musk/huss per cost, yes.

You are just a clown.

1) lol, all the community can witness that you've said that. I even have some screenshots of you saying that, even «Russia is fucking op, you have no clue»
2) So you did say that but so far I haven't seen a single ram in a competitive game. :hmm:
3) Well again you did say that and lost to a captain on stream.
4) Again I can provide some screenshots of you claiming that.
5)So you did say that.
6) I'm not talking about team but about 1v1
7) Your games prove that? Bro you literally got molested by everybody. I remember you getting mad on stream after losing 4-0 to a captain playing India, you're living in an illusion.
8) I don't expect you to understand water anyway. The fact that the only guys doing good on water build 4 docks if not 5, and that your water play is very questionable suggests that you're wrong again.
9) Well I wasn't sure myself so I just tried the build you suggested in the aztecs vs otto thread, and it's total trash.
You end your wp boom at 6min, get your docks up at 6min, and then you can barely make 10 boats because you don't have enough wood, and you have 10 coyotes/a 45v eco a 8min30, time where a fre guy is going to come with 5 cuirs/5huss/2falcs. You're not anywhere close to start fortress, you have no army and your eco isn't even good.
Honestly, I'd say that it is bad in every situation without exceptions, but the fact that you claimed that it is the «should go build» on water map shows how disconnected from reality you are.
10) Sure :D

Anyway, I know that all in all, you're not a bad player, and that most of the time you don't believe what you claim, or you just claim it because you're mad, you prove it by saying that you've never said these things, but still, it's hard for us to know when you're serious, and when you're just having another unreasonable opinion. Right now you seem to be mad and thus I wouldn't bet a lot on you being right.

PS: Sorry GS :P
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Italy Garja
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08 May 2018, 15:00

Cba really. Let's just disagree. You have no clue anyway of what you're saying in most cases. And no I didn't say those things, it's just you putting words on my mouth.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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08 May 2018, 15:04

Yea let's just disagree.
I'm not at home atm but next week I'll post screenshots of you claiming this to prove I'm not putting words in your mouth.
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Italy Garja
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08 May 2018, 15:20

Cool, you putting lot of effort in this crusaide. Curious to see what you screenshotted.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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08 May 2018, 15:26

Garja wrote:Cool, you putting lot of effort in this crusaide. Curious to see what you screenshotted.

K I'll post it on Saturday. Remind me if I don't.
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Netherlands momuuu
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08 May 2018, 15:28

Garja, its not a crusade. Its just that every time something about aoe is discussed, you come in with the weirdest arguments possible and cant be reasoned with. You annoy people with that, hijack the discussion with your ridiculoud arguments, and then eventually when you start losing the discussion you'll end up claiming everyone but you is stupid and that nobody is as good or has the gameunderstanding that you have.

Its extremely weird, you'll even go as far as calling one of the players with the most strategic insight stupid. It makes no sense. Its not a crusade, but you just hijack topics with your stupid trolling time and time again.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
Great Britain Hazza54321
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08 May 2018, 15:29

the german change seems kinda pointless to me, 181hp uhlans if youre so bothered about them being a broken unit
Diarouga: How exactly am I arrogant
No Flag umeu
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08 May 2018, 15:35

zoom wrote:
umeu wrote:
Show hidden quotes


K, you say you don't refuse to consider it, and then you don't consider it. Nice job! You say that the balance we can achieve on multiple map type is limited. Why? You don't explain it, you just state it. It's not been tried. It's not been tested. It's just an idea in your mind that you refuse to change. So, anyone who just sees limitations without actually testing the limits, I think, is being biased.

TL:DR: I say the opposite. Nice talking to you.
I do consider it; note how I said the extent is limited, not zero. So there goes your argument. As for the reason: Because civilization strength will unavoidably vary quite the deal depending on map-related factors. I did not state this because I've been over it so many times before, as have you, and I assumed you know. My mistake. Testing is not required to see that there are definitive limitations, again barring bias.


I meant you arent considering the specific changes. If you would say its simply too much work, that would be acceptable. But don't pretend its a fact just because you say so and lack the imagination to see how other options would work out. I have yet to hear a good argument about why balance would be limited on multiple map types. Its (more) difficult doesnt mean its impossible.
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Italy Garja
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08 May 2018, 15:42

momuuu wrote:Garja, its not a crusade. Its just that every time something about aoe is discussed, you come in with the weirdest arguments possible and cant be reasoned with. You annoy people with that, hijack the discussion with your ridiculoud arguments, and then eventually when you start losing the discussion you'll end up claiming everyone but you is stupid and that nobody is as good or has the gameunderstanding that you have.

Its extremely weird, you'll even go as far as calling one of the players with the most strategic insight stupid. It makes no sense. Its not a crusade, but you just hijack topics with your stupid trolling time and time again.


Weirdest argument possible, lol. It's called having a different opinion from yours. And I couldn't care less if there more people against my argument than the other way around. If popularity was a thing in opinion then you wouldn't have revolutionary thinking at all.

For the record I don't hijack anything. It's always my haters going against me, just like you and Diarouga are doing here.
And no Diarouga doesn't have nearly as close game undersanding as I have.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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08 May 2018, 15:44

Whether it's possible or not (I don't think it is) is irrelevant here. We don't have a testing team so rethinking the EP approach entirely would be a disaster.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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08 May 2018, 15:48

Garja wrote:
momuuu wrote:Garja, its not a crusade. Its just that every time something about aoe is discussed, you come in with the weirdest arguments possible and cant be reasoned with. You annoy people with that, hijack the discussion with your ridiculoud arguments, and then eventually when you start losing the discussion you'll end up claiming everyone but you is stupid and that nobody is as good or has the gameunderstanding that you have.

Its extremely weird, you'll even go as far as calling one of the players with the most strategic insight stupid. It makes no sense. Its not a crusade, but you just hijack topics with your stupid trolling time and time again.


Weirdest argument possible, lol. It's called having a different opinion from yours. And I couldn't care less if there more people against my argument than the other way around. If popularity was a thing in opinion then you wouldn't have revolutionary thinking at all.

For the record I don't hijack anything. It's always my haters going against me, just like you and Diarouga are doing here.
And no Diarouga doesn't have nearly as close game undersanding as I have.

I don't want to start an ego war, nor do I want to be offensive, but, let's say we're at the same level on aoe3 (I don't think you can argue that you're on level above), you have better mechanics than I do right? Better micro, better knowledge of the small tricks.
How come you're not one level above me then? Think about it, if you're better mechanically, and my understanding isn't close to your, then why can I beat you that often?
No Flag umeu
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08 May 2018, 15:52

Thats why you open beta. A beta patch that can switch to easily like you can switch between ep and treaty patch would be a good start.
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Italy Garja
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08 May 2018, 15:55

Well this is not a good argument. Or at least it is if you pick games where I actually play at said level, which is pretty rare nowadays.
I mean half of my games I blow up 20 score advantage or good positions overall because of mistake of focus.

And as for our games, you can't claim anything based on that. Example: you won the Aztec mirror in the tourney back then but it's not like going TP is the right decision and you can advocate for it. It's just that I wasn't focused enough to answer that properly or simply didn't play the MU again beforehand to include those possibilities. It's hard to use game knowledge on the fly while playing.
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United States of America Papist
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08 May 2018, 15:59

@Garja @Diarouga Please drop this argument, or at least have it in private. You aren't going to agree and it's pushing a very important thread off topic.
My first post, circa March 2015 :blush:
Papist wrote:@frycookofdoom. WTF are you talking about? There is no need for AoE to become a StarCraft rip-off. I sincerly doubt a historical game would attract the science fiction crowd anyways.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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08 May 2018, 16:06

umeu wrote:Thats why you open beta. A beta patch that can switch to easily like you can switch between ep and treaty patch would be a good start.

We had betas in the past. Since nobody played it there's no beta anymore.
However, if you suggest some changes, ask the devs to open a beta, and test it, I'm sure they'd do it :)
No Flag umeu
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08 May 2018, 16:09

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
umeu wrote:Thats why you open beta. A beta patch that can switch to easily like you can switch between ep and treaty patch would be a good start.

We had betas in the past. Since nobody played it there's no beta anymore.
However, if you suggest some changes, ask the devs to open a beta, and test it, I'm sure they'd do it :)


maybe i am missing something, but I thought we are discussing in the current beta thread right now. so surely there must be a beta right? the way it's now is a step in the right direction, before it was just much too inconvenient with the beta. it could still be made easier, but i'm not sure how difficult that is.

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