ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Do you think that

Nothing should be changed
14
50%
Only QS games should be rated on the elo ladder
4
14%
Only QS games should be rated on the elo ladder and we should have a rotating map pool with 8 maps
10
36%
 
Total votes: 28

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France [Armag] diarouga
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ESOC elo ladder suggestion

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I feel like when I log in to play some games (which I agree is not very often these days), I just end up playing the same people and the same MU again and again, which is super boring.
I know many other players also feel the same way, and I/we really miss the good old days when you would just QS and get matched against a random guy, and play a different game every time.

That's why I think that we should bring the QS back, because it's more fun. In my opinion, the best solution to do that (I don't know if it's possible), would be to make only QS games rated on the ESOC ladder. As a consequence, people would have to QS to play rated games, and play with different players, not the same every time.
In addition, people wouldn't be allowed to pick their MU, which is a bit annoying.

Finally, map-wise it would be interesting, and we could copy the sc2 system ie put like 8 maps in the QS map pool (and change it like every 2 months), and allow players to veto 3, because having a map pool with 30 maps makes no sense at all. With that, people would have to practice on specific maps, which would improve the general map knowledge.
It might be wise to only use these 8 maps or so for the tournaments too.
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Armenia Sargsyan
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by Sargsyan »

only quicksearch games rated would be fun but also there would be no way to avoid cheaters and this game will die eventually
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Sargsyan wrote:only quicksearch games rated would be fun but also there would be no way to avoid cheaters and this game will die finally

I'm talking about the ESOC patch, so cheaters aren't an issue.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by Sargsyan »

Didnt they cheat in a tourney game ?
krichk wrote:For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge Challenger_Marco
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Sargsyan wrote:Didnt they cheat in a tourney game ?

They got caught and now the cheat is fixed on the EP. Of course they would cheat a few games before getting caught but it's just the same with games you host. Roiarthurbis probably cheated for over a year before he got caught.

Furthermore since it's the ESOC elo ladder they can ban cheaters from their elo ladder, and probably (I'm not sure) remove the games where someone cheated.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by Ashvin »

I think people will eventually stop playing on patch this way.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ashvin wrote:I think people will eventually stop playing on patch this way.

Why? They can still play unrated games with the std system, and if they want to play rated games together they can QS at the same time and get matched against each other.
You really shouldn't be allowed to pick your opponents in a competitive game.
Besides, almost nobody cares about the ESOC elo ladder, and hosted games would still change your pr and your jap elo.

PS: Why would people stop this way? I don't get the point.
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United States of America musketeer925
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by musketeer925 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Ashvin wrote:I think people will eventually stop playing on patch this way.

Why? They can still play unrated games with the std system, and if they want to play rated games together they can QS at the same time and get matched against each other.
You really shouldn't be allowed to pick your opponents in a competitive game.
Besides, almost nobody cares about the ESOC elo ladder, and hosted games would still change your pr and your jap elo.

PS: Why would people stop this way? I don't get the point.

If no one cares about the ESOC Elo ladder, why would making it count only QS games encourage more people to play QS?

How long does it realistically take to get a QS match on EP right now? This seems way more likely to render the EP ladder useless (since QS EP games is an even smaller fraction of games than EP) than to encourage playing QS.
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United States of America _H2O
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by _H2O »

The pool of players is too small for QS to work. I like the theory of it, but you could also just join a game with someone and play rated on ESOC maps. Soldier is a great example of someone who just plays the game and doesn't get so picky about maps and other things to play rated.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by Hidddy_ »

I like the idea of a limited map pool, getting only the most competitive maps for 1v1 would be very good for improving ep qs. Though i don't think we have to limit rated games to ep qs, it would surely incentivize others to use ep qs but it may have more negative long-term effects like decreasing the ep population. Really there is nothing stopping you from queuing up a rated game on an ep map from the lobby, though you will be subject to the same civ selection bias you are trying to avoid.

I will say, I do like the idea of queuing up on qs with a friend to play a random mu on only the most standard ep maps.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hidddy_ wrote:I like the idea of a limited map pool, getting only the most competitive maps for 1v1 would be very good for improving ep qs. Though i don't think we have to limit rated games to ep qs, it would surely incentivize others to use ep qs but it may have more negative long-term effects like decreasing the ep population. Really there is nothing stopping you from queuing up a rated game on an ep map from the lobby, though you will be subject to the same civ selection bias you are trying to avoid.

I will say, I do like the idea of queuing up on qs with a friend to play a random mu on only the most standard ep maps.

The idea wouldn't be to restrict QS to competitive maps only, but to make a smaller map pool, because having 30 maps makes sense, and to have the same maps used in tournaments.

That way, instead of playing a map from time to time, players would play on maps they master in tourneys.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by Garja »

Ye right now we have a player base problem. But I think when ESO gets more crowded (christmas period or something) we could try to push the QS on EP. Bear in mind the QS is a way to incentivate play in itself.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by deleted_user0 »

would be great, if there were enough players, which there aren't. Last year you could barely even get a game on RE QS, you would just sit in QS and go afk and then come back 20 minutes later to find ur tc destroyed. EP would be worse. You would go AFK for 1 hour, come back and find urself still in QS.

Also, if u do it, there shouldn't be no cherry picking of maps either. Not just only land maps or tp maps and that type of stuff. A good mix representing all maps would be the best. I like the idea of keeping the map pool relatively small but rotating the maps out every now and then.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by j_t_kirk »

Games hosted via quicksearch are always rated.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:would be great, if there were enough players, which there aren't. Last year you could barely even get a game on RE QS, you would just sit in QS and go afk and then come back 20 minutes later to find ur tc destroyed. EP would be worse. You would go AFK for 1 hour, come back and find urself still in QS.

Also, if u do it, there shouldn't be no cherry picking of maps either. Not just only land maps or tp maps and that type of stuff. A good mix representing all maps would be the best. I like the idea of keeping the map pool relatively small but rotating the maps out every now and then.

The map pool has to be small imo, but what about a veto system like in sc2?
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by flontier »

quicksearch would be very slowsearch on ep (already the case on re). A nice concept to imitate qs would be -when a game is host on ep- to have an option to hide player name and civ in the room (also player rank cause you can guess who is who) and in the game browser but i don't know if it's possible to implement.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

flontier wrote:quicksearch would be very slowsearch on ep (already the case on re). A nice concept to imitate qs would be -when a game is host on ep- to have an option to hide player name and civ in the room (also player rank cause you can guess who is who) and in the game browser but i don't know if it's possible to implement.

That would be cool but I highly doubt it is possible.

What about making a rotating map pool @everyone? Every 2 months make a pool composed of 8 maps and create a map pool with these maps on the EP, and only use these maps for tournaments.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by deleted_user0 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
umeu wrote:would be great, if there were enough players, which there aren't. Last year you could barely even get a game on RE QS, you would just sit in QS and go afk and then come back 20 minutes later to find ur tc destroyed. EP would be worse. You would go AFK for 1 hour, come back and find urself still in QS.

Also, if u do it, there shouldn't be no cherry picking of maps either. Not just only land maps or tp maps and that type of stuff. A good mix representing all maps would be the best. I like the idea of keeping the map pool relatively small but rotating the maps out every now and then.

The map pool has to be small imo, but what about a veto system like in sc2?


u can't implement that in aoe3, I'm quite certain. i do think a small pool is a good idea, 8-10 maps.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
umeu wrote:would be great, if there were enough players, which there aren't. Last year you could barely even get a game on RE QS, you would just sit in QS and go afk and then come back 20 minutes later to find ur tc destroyed. EP would be worse. You would go AFK for 1 hour, come back and find urself still in QS.

Also, if u do it, there shouldn't be no cherry picking of maps either. Not just only land maps or tp maps and that type of stuff. A good mix representing all maps would be the best. I like the idea of keeping the map pool relatively small but rotating the maps out every now and then.

The map pool has to be small imo, but what about a veto system like in sc2?


u can't implement that in aoe3, I'm quite certain. i do think a small pool is a good idea, 8-10 maps.

Probably.
10 maps is already big, I think 8 would be the best.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by HUMMAN »

We can vote maps monthly in forums.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by Sargsyan »

HUMMAN wrote:We can vote maps monthly in forums.

Yeah breeze can make a poll
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by musketeer925 »

flontier wrote:quicksearch would be very slowsearch on ep (already the case on re). A nice concept to imitate qs would be -when a game is host on ep- to have an option to hide player name and civ in the room (also player rank cause you can guess who is who) and in the game browser but i don't know if it's possible to implement.

This is an interesting idea.

Unfortunately I don't think it's possible. You could maybe anonymize a user, but doing so would likely require anonymizing them for the duration of the game, making the resulting rank calculation and ladder results also anonymized (i.e., broken). Futher, Microsoft/ESO probably wouldn't like it.

You could anonymize users client-side, but someone could just log into non-EP to see the listed game, or capture their network traffic (or build/use a tool that does so) to see the real user.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by Garja »

Map pool doesn't have to be small. Just exclude those 5 maps that too extreme and we're good.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by Djigit »

umeu wrote:would be great, if there were enough players, which there aren't. Last year you could barely even get a game on RE QS, you would just sit in QS and go afk and then come back 20 minutes later to find ur tc destroyed. EP would be worse. You would go AFK for 1 hour, come back and find urself still in QS.

Also, if u do it, there shouldn't be no cherry picking of maps either. Not just only land maps or tp maps and that type of stuff. A good mix representing all maps would be the best. I like the idea of keeping the map pool relatively small but rotating the maps out every now and then.
I think the lack of player on RE QS is related to the cheating episode. As Garja pointed out, it might work as an incentive and increase the size of the player base. Some people are much more comfortable at playing via QS rather than through lobby.
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Re: ESOC elo ladder suggestion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:Map pool doesn't have to be small. Just exclude those 5 maps that too extreme and we're good.

It's better when the map pool is smaller because it's better to play the same maps a lot during a short period of time than to play a map from time to time.

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