India

[cedarfarms]

So I just watched the aiz and somppu series and I’m just wondering how India is still allowed to be played in competitive play.
I mean euro civs are just at such a huge dis advantage when attempting to defeat India and all the extra things the India player has at their disposal.

Now all the Indian players who have had their pr go up by fifteen levels from playing the civ will get angry and flame me.

[Ashvin]

@EAGLEMUT please dont flame him

[Gendarme]

Idk how it is allowed, tbh. Probably biased admins

[Snuden]

It did indeed seem a little OP, but surely there is more to it than just spamming Sepoys and ship Urumi's.

[Snuden]

And I don't think Aiz did the optimal counter defense.

[gamevideo113]

Zhanson is it you?

[[Armag] diarouga]

I haven't watched the game but India should be fine overall tbh. They're slighlty op in some MUs, but if you pick the right strat, you can defeat them.

Anyway, you shouldn't consider aizamk's games when talking about balance because he can win unwinnable MUs and lose unlosable MUs.

[Gendarme]

I think Aizamk is the incarnation of the anomalies in our universe, here only in the guise of a human.

[Lukas_L99]

I haven't watched the game but India should be fine overall tbh. They're slighlty op in some MUs, but if you pick the right strat, you can defeat them.

Anyway, you shouldn't consider aizamk's games when talking about balance because he can win unwinnable MUs and lose unlosable MUs.

So what's a good civ and build against the full sepoy/urumi/mahout cease fire shit?

[Hazza54321]

im all ears to that too

[[Armag] diarouga]

I haven't watched the game but India should be fine overall tbh. They're slighlty op in some MUs, but if you pick the right strat, you can defeat them.

Anyway, you shouldn't consider aizamk's games when talking about balance because he can win unwinnable MUs and lose unlosable MUs.

So what's a good civ and build against the full sepoy/urumi/mahout cease fire shit?

1) Aztecs do fine. FI is better than the India ff, actually even the aztec semi ff does fine vs India ff.
2) Iro is a good civ vs India. You can outmass them in fortress, and deal with the urumis if you don't overcommit.
3) Spain is a controversial one, but I've always thought that Spain vs India is a good MU.
With the sepoy nerf you should now win vs the 300e or sepoy rush build, and India can't ff because the ff is too fast and they die before they can get age3 stuffs.
4) Dutch is probably fine. Not sure though since I don't have a lot of experience with this civ.
5) France has been said to be the natural counter to India for the past 4 years, and I don't know why one would think it has changed.
Just go for a musk semi, kill the agra with the falcs, and snowball with a huge skirm mass.
6) Germany is about the same, except it's a bit more complicated to hold the rush, but it's easier to outmass in age3.
7) I used to win this MU with Brits, but I have to admit it's not easy. Still, a good Brit should win on a good map.
8) Ports do fine on maps where they can send ATP and take 3+ TPs. They're weaker on over maps though.

So out of 13, that's 8 civs which at least have equal chances vs India, I wouldn't say that India is op.

[charlemango]

I saw aiz's German fi did ok, but I think the port fi should be a better version of that no? Wall up, go industrial, goons + heavy cannons should counter sepoy + urumi.

[Youssef]

Sioux is a bit favoured in this mu I guess

[zoom]

I tried. At the conclusion of the event, I intend to try again. Hopefully I'll be more successful, then.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I saw aiz's German fi did ok, but I think the port fi should be a better version of that no? Wall up, go industrial, goons + heavy cannons should counter sepoy + urumi.

Port FI shouldn't really work vs India (although it can if the Indian isn't veru reactive) because he's just going to starve you, while outbooming and raping you with sepoys/gurkhas/siege elephants which heavily counters your unit composition.

I'd say that India has the best unit composition to deal with Port FI builds because siege elephants act as both culvs and mortars (China is also great).

Anyway, Ger FI of course shouldn't work in a serious game, balance has nothing to do with that.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Sioux is a bit favoured in this mu I guess

I don't think so, the sepoy rush is hard to hold, and after that it's very hard to age and outmass.

[Lukas_L99]

I haven't watched the game but India should be fine overall tbh. They're slighlty op in some MUs, but if you pick the right strat, you can defeat them.

Anyway, you shouldn't consider aizamk's games when talking about balance because he can win unwinnable MUs and lose unlosable MUs.

So what's a good civ and build against the full sepoy/urumi/mahout cease fire shit?

1) Aztecs do fine. FI is better than the India ff, actually even the aztec semi ff does fine vs India ff.
2) Iro is a good civ vs India. You can outmass them in fortress, and deal with the urumis if you don't overcommit.
3) Spain is a controversial one, but I've always thought that Spain vs India is a good MU.
With the sepoy nerf you should now win vs the 300e or sepoy rush build, and India can't ff because the ff is too fast and they die before they can get age3 stuffs.
4) Dutch is probably fine. Not sure though since I don't have a lot of experience with this civ.
5) France has been said to be the natural counter to India for the past 4 years, and I don't know why one would think it has changed.
Just go for a musk semi, kill the agra with the falcs, and snowball with a huge skirm mass.
6) Germany is about the same, except it's a bit more complicated to hold the rush, but it's easier to outmass in age3.
7) I used to win this MU with Brits, but I have to admit it's not easy. Still, a good Brit should win on a good map.
8) Ports do fine on maps where they can send ATP and take 3+ TPs. They're weaker on over maps though.

So out of 13, that's 8 civs which at least have equal chances vs India, I wouldn't say that India is op.

Aztec units just get rekt by India, it's not even funny and worse as the game progresses. If you FI the indian player usually goes to 4 as well and how do you kill urumis as aztec? Maybe I need to try this more but I don't think it works.

Whenever I read Iro I have to think of this clip: https://clips.twitch.tv/SnappySeductivePigStinkyCheese
I know you're gonna say "it's garja hehehe" but still it just looks retarded lol.

Can't say too much about the other civs, I don't rlly play euro ones except for Ger.

[Hazza54321]

yeah i think azzy are pretty poor vs india, i see iro being good though with toma prowler rather than goon prowler though

[gibson]

yea tomo prowler seems better cause you have higher overall dps and india isnt likely to go sowers in age 3, especially not early

[[Armag] diarouga]

@Lukas_L99 Back when everybody thought that Aztec FI was a troll strat, I raped the India FIs with Aztec FIs several times.

With 50 age4 maces you just kill the urumis in one hit, and by the time he kills the WC and the Skulls, all his elephants/urumis will be dead.
Never underestimate the Azzy FI bro.

I haven't tested the Iro vs India extensively, but from experience, if India goes defensive (agra or karni), they lose to forward wh/4 kanya pressure into semi ff. And I just don't see the sepoy rush working. Iro is going to hold easily with the BB and aennas, and semi ff into a win.

[Garja]

From my experience azzy FI loses to India FI. At least when India takes TP and send GFA.
Civs that do well atm vs India are Iro, Fre, Dutch, Ger and maybe port, brit and jap. None of them really gives the feeling you're at advantage in the MU tho.

[[Armag] diarouga]

From my experience azzy FI loses to India FI. At least when India takes TP and send GFA.
Civs that do well atm vs India are Iro, Fre, Dutch, Ger and maybe port, brit and jap. None of them really gives the feeling you're at advantage in the MU tho.

1) From your experience, Aztec FI isn't viable even on the RE so your experience on the matter isn't really relevant.
2) Fre has the edge in the MU for sure. I haven't played Iro/Dutch/Ger a lot vs India so I can't tell about these, but Brit and Port on TP maps do fine for sure.

You forgot Spain btw.

[Garja]

No from my experience if you do azzy FI vs somppu india FI it is jsut inferior. So very much relevant. You prob never played a good India FI.
Fre doesn't rly have the edge in current meta imo. It depends on map etc. but it's like 50% imo. Brits not so sure , I would pick India every time in that one. Port dunno either. Aiz just lost hard with Ports doing reasonable stuff I think. And it's not Somppu did the most sophisticated build. He rushed straight into CM and it worked.
Spain imo isnt' a good pick vs India.

[Lukas_L99]

Yeah, I'm gonna test the Aztec FI more now, but I also have a bad experience in his MU. Urumis usually raped.

And for Iro: FP/Toma sounds pretty decent actually, I'm surprised I haven't thought of that myself. Not sure how the kanya pressure works vs defensive Agra, I don't see it do much damage, I might be wrong though. But colo vs India as Iro is horrible IMO, since aenna can't hit and run sepoys.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yeah, I'm gonna test the Aztec FI more now, but I also have a bad experience in his MU. Urumis usually raped.

And for Iro: FP/Toma sounds pretty decent actually, I'm surprised I haven't thought of that myself. Not sure how the kanya pressure works vs defensive Agra, I don't see it do much damage, I might be wrong though. But colo vs India as Iro is horrible IMO, since aenna can't hit and run sepoys.

Urumis do very well vs aztec units but you just get outmassed hard so it doesn't matter.

Colo Iro vs India sucks but you just pressure a bit, and then age up.