apaches

[Hazza54321]

remove apaches from the game ty

[EAGLEMUT]

[zoom]

That's funny. I've thought "how broken is Apache Cactus Jizz", every time i see it, but I've never actually thought to nerf it. Something worth considering, I think.

[spanky4ever]

could you give us a reason why at least @Hazza54321

[spanky4ever]

That's funny. I've thought "how broken is Apache Cactus Jizz", every time i see it, but I've never actually thought to nerf it. Something worth considering, I think.

I would guess. some oponent started using native civs so we should ban then intantly
this is not a good post @Hazza54321 and I think you made it as a joke ??

[Hazza54321]

wasnt a joke this unit has no place in this game, only counter to it is walls , at least br have animation

[Googol]

They can be very painful/annoying to deal with especially in team games, since they get big multipliers vs villagers. Since they're very fast its easy to run them into your opponent's base. Unless you wall.

[zoom]

The unit is literally a Dragoon. Cactus Jizz warrants nerfing, for sure.

[Mitoe]

Or you could just change the tech

[Hazza54321]

Or you could just change the tech

thats kinda what i meant but i was exaggerating

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah the unit itself has exactly the same cost and stats as a goon on RE. So it's not broken. But the tech is obviously stupid.

[Garja]

The tech was traditionally considered broken, but is it actually?

[SoldieR]

wasnt a joke this unit has no place in this game, only counter to it is walls , at least br have animation

finds a counter, wants a nerf

[Garja]

You can make like 10 of them...

[rsy]

could you give us a reason why at least @Hazza54321

there is a tech that lets apache dragoons have a bonus vs vills where they 3 or 4 shot a vill or something. this is uncounterable especially in age 2 because they counter cavalry and if u bring back ur inf to counter raids, u give ur opponent too much time. so essentially the only effective counter is to go age3 and dragoons urself or build walls

[EAGLEMUT]

could you give us a reason why at least @Hazza54321

there is a tech that lets apache dragoons have a bonus vs vills where they 3 or 4 shot a vill or something. this is uncounterable especially in age 2 because they counter cavalry and if u bring back ur inf to counter raids, u give ur opponent too much time. so essentially the only effective counter is to go age3 and dragoons urself or build walls

Note that this tech cannot be researched in age2.

[glorious_]

imo remove all units except musk, then it is not unbalanced

[fei123456]

but you can have only 8 of them. you spend 200w for a "stable" that can only train 8 dragoons, which sounds bad.
and if you upgrade them in age 3 you've upgraded only 8 units.

[Method_man714]

could you give us a reason why at least @Hazza54321

there is a tech that lets apache dragoons have a bonus vs vills where they 3 or 4 shot a vill or something. this is uncounterable especially in age 2 because they counter cavalry and if u bring back ur inf to counter raids, u give ur opponent too much time. so essentially the only effective counter is to go age3 and dragoons urself or build walls

Thanks! We had no idea

[Hazza54321]

wasnt a joke this unit has no place in this game, only counter to it is walls , at least br have animation

finds a counter, wants a nerf

If the only counter to it is to wall half the map then clearly something is wrong with the unit lmao

[Hazza54321]

You can make like 10 of them...

You only need 2 to 1 shot so this argument is irrelevant

[edeholland]

As long as the trade posts for apache are in the center of the map, I don't think there is something wrong with having a strong native unit. You can still fight for the trade post.

If both players have access to the apache on their side of the map, I agree it's a bit silly.

The map that have apache are: Painted Desert, Sonora, Texas, ESOC Arizona, ESOC Baja California and ESOC Jebel Musa.

On ESOC Arizona and ESOC Baja California, there are at least two native trade posts for apache, one of them at each side of the map. On Jebel Musa, there is only one trade post in the center of the map.

[deleted_user0]

here's the counter. wall the nat post!

[duckzilla]

The tech is age III only, so I do not really see the point. Also it is easily to detect whether your opponent has a native TP. Putting a wall is cheaper than the TP itself and it renders the unit more or less useless since you cannot spam it.

You could also say the same about the ottoman homecity card "irregulars" which gives cav archers a bonus against infantry (I know, they have an attack animation...). I have yet to see anyone play that card.

edit: but now that I think about it, I see a funny noob 3v3 coming. Playing french, going age III and having 2 apache TP's while sending all corresponding upgrade cards can yield 16 dragoons costing 67f/67c with 390 HP + 41 dmg in age III, doing 2.5 times the dmg against vills. Oh boy, what a joy!

[Kaiserklein]

The build limit thing is irrelevant, since you anyway use them to raid only. You don't need more than 8 or 16 apaches to totally shit on vils and be super annoying.
The fact that the tech is age 3 is important, it's indeed much less broken than in colonial. But regardless it's still really lame in team games, and you very often reach fortress anyway.

The position of the nat post is not always relevant. For example on jebel, if one team has a better water potential, they will automatically get control of the part with apaches. On a map where apaches are in the middle, the team with the better mapcontrol civs will also probably be able to use them. Actually, having apaches next to the bases is the most "fair", but it's still stupid because no one (at least I hope) wants to play a game where both sides wall up to the middle of the map before 15 min.

The thing about paying 200w for a stable giving you only 8 goons is not a valid argument, because apaches don't cost pop space, which is effectively a 20 wood discount per unit compared to goons (which have the exact same stats and cost), so already a 160w discount for 8 apaches, or even more if they die and you remake them. And the upgrades are worth it if you prod 10+ apaches anyway.