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Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 23:38
by zoom
VooDoo_BoSs wrote:
NekoBerk wrote:
VooDoo_BoSs wrote:Providing them more siege damage and less hitpoints could be a way to make them better at their job without becoming OP, and also reduce the power of Water / FI turtles.


Hit and run and they won't give any damage homie.


That's fine, but I think they aren't as good vs buildings as they should be - their primary purpose.
While I agree, they are good vs buildings, for sure, and I don't see it being the reason they aren't used.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 03:06
by deleted_user0
momuuu wrote:Be careful with what you wish for. Grenadiers have more potential than you might think. Their problem isn't actually the damage or hitpoints or their tags, the problem is that grens have terrible range and probably the worst animation in the game. Trying to fight anything with range is just impossible. But once these things get in a straight up fight and are combined with the upgrade from the Arsenal they are absolute beasts. It's just that anything with range hit and runs them to death.


they have 12 range like musketeers. but ye the animation sux. and ye, imo it should be a barracks unit. i guess this only kinda creates problems for russia.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 03:59
by greatscythe11
Well, in Brit vs Russia for example, if the brit guy mixes grens with musk huss and sends cav hp, can the longer cav snare work with the gren animation?

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 05:59
by yemshi
Why send cav HP for 5 cav if you can send complete inf combat?

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 06:53
by greatscythe11
I feel like there's no easy way for russia to deal with cav hp as boyars dont help russian muskets. Cav snare is useful to catch cav or infantry. It also discourages massing strelets. Strelets do take 3 swings from hussars(in comparison 2 swings from uhlans ) and considering their numbers that can be a lot of work for hussars. Further melee units, past a number, are hard to fully utilize. Also , brit generally have a strong eco for training units so adding an upgrade from home city can be worth consideration. Furthermore since both strelets and cossack have both 30% rr and are quite cheap(one resource wise and one popwise), ranged fire seems a harder way to counter the russian army in comparison to melee or siege damage.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 10:17
by pecelot
momuuu wrote:I think their slow animation doenst underline their main weakness, it IS their main weakness. In straight up fights well microed grenadiers perform great. In occasional trolling that Ive done I have always been amazed by their performance. At some critical mass they become very deadly once theyre actually lobbing those bombs. I actually think grens from the barracks could straight up be viable right now, especially with a little fixing of that animation.

Oh, yes, that's what I meant; were it not for the slow animation, their terrible melee combat capabilities and range wouldn't be such an issue. It's like having 20-range skirms with 3 speed.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 07 Dec 2018, 21:31
by Imperial Noob
Grenadiers being HI is reasonable. Just give them x4 vs cav in melee and fix animation.

Animations should be sped up or altered whenever they are clearly broken.
Grenadier attack -> faster
Renegado attack -> faster
all Archers -> like Yumi, without that buggy animation which makes them always set up first and gets reset if their initial target dies... Also, what is it with archer units missing? This should be deleted

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 07 Dec 2018, 22:24
by Kaiserklein
I agree the best way to buff grenadiers is probably to fix their animation. However, renegados have insane stats besides their horrible animation. If you give them a faster animation they're totally op.
Yumis shoot just fine, you probably mean lbs/aennas/cetans. Again, if these didn't have that shitty animation, they would be op (especially lbs). But yeah not sure why bows miss shots sometimes, it sucks.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 00:04
by supernapoleon
I always wondered how good grens are in treaty. With Brits you can send a lot of upgrades and in treaty ypu do not run back and forth woth your whole army so the animation is kind of no problem. I think I will test them.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 00:06
by momuuu
supernapoleon wrote:I always wondered how good grens are in treaty. With Brits you can send a lot of upgrades and in treaty ypu do not run back and forth woth your whole army so the animation is kind of no problem. I think I will test them.

Weren't grens meta at some point? I recall that treaty pros back in 2010 or so thought that it was good to mix in a few grens.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 00:07
by pecelot
how do you even counter renegados? legit question

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 00:07
by supernapoleon
I mean you could send the church card, advanced arsenal, 3 musk/gren cards and the additional damage card for grens plus maybe team cards.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 00:08
by supernapoleon
momuuu wrote:
supernapoleon wrote:I always wondered how good grens are in treaty. With Brits you can send a lot of upgrades and in treaty ypu do not run back and forth woth your whole army so the animation is kind of no problem. I think I will test them.

Weren't grens meta at some point? I recall that treaty pros back in 2010 or so thought that it was good to mix in a few grens.

I don't know, I wans't active bach then. Right now noone is using them. Maybe @dicktator_ knows

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 01:30
by dicktator_
supernapoleon wrote:
momuuu wrote:
supernapoleon wrote:I always wondered how good grens are in treaty. With Brits you can send a lot of upgrades and in treaty ypu do not run back and forth woth your whole army so the animation is kind of no problem. I think I will test them.

Weren't grens meta at some point? I recall that treaty pros back in 2010 or so thought that it was good to mix in a few grens.

I don't know, I wans't active bach then. Right now noone is using them. Maybe @dicktator_ knows

Yeah they were meta in 2011 and earlier. Only in mirrors though, and then grens became obsolete when people figured out musk art is just better.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 02:13
by dansil92
Grens are decent in treaty for brits if your opponent has lots of culverins and you still need lots of seige. Gren goon is decent vs russia. Gren musk is decent vs aztec. They are a really powerful unit stats-wise its just the heavy infantry tag, animation, speed and cost that stop them being hugely useful in supremacy

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 08:42
by Kaiserklein
pecelot wrote:how do you even counter renegados? legit question

They are low hp, can't kite, and are produced super slowly. So you can counter them by just having a lot of musks and going in (for example, 12 sepoys rush shits on 5 renegados). You can counter them with cav obviously. You can counter them with tc fire if they come in your base (similar to abus dying in 2 shots). You can counter them if you have skirms since they have more range and no animation.

Re: Grenadier Buff?

Posted: 08 Dec 2018, 22:21
by pecelot
nice, I remember struggling against some captain dudes who would rush me on GP with Germany, it was surprisingly effective as I didn't really have a clue how to defeat them; thanks :smile: