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Serbia Atomiswave
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17 Dec 2018, 17:18

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Ok fr and ger are top tier. That's new.
Meanwhile you complain about the fast age getting nerfed

Fre and Ger at top tier yea. And I complain about the fast age up getting nerfed because it's stupid design-wise, and it nerfs Port, while it's an average civ.


Fast age will still be good and completely viable. The only difference is it will not be one and only way to age up for civ that have it. Now we can actually except other age up politicians now and then, which almost never happened before....
No Flag umeu
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17 Dec 2018, 17:30

i doubt it. nerfing fast age means you go colonial, or still fast age but you are slower and thus weaker. there is no reason that it will be replaced by a slow age 3 politician
Great Britain Hazza54321
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17 Dec 2018, 17:41

i think slow age is viable in only one circumstance and thats when you dont have a shipment and youre almost out of res
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Dec 2018, 17:41

Yea, slow age up wasn't viable. So as Umeu said, since it wasn't buffed, it still won't be, so you're either going to try to survive with the fast age up, or you have to give up on age 3.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Dec 2018, 17:42

Hazza54321 wrote:i think slow age is viable in only one circumstance and thats when you dont have a shipment and youre almost out of res

In which case you shouldn't age anyway.
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France kami_ryu
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17 Dec 2018, 17:44

As long as we collectively agree that Zoi ( @zoom ) is a piece of shit and eurotrash, I'm happy.
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France Kaiserklein
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17 Dec 2018, 17:45

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Ok fr and ger are top tier. That's new.
Meanwhile you complain about the fast age getting nerfed

Fre and Ger at top tier yea. And I complain about the fast age up getting nerfed because it's stupid design-wise, and it nerfs Port, while it's an average civ.

How do you want anyone to take you seriously while writing this kind of bs?
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Great Britain Hazza54321
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17 Dec 2018, 17:45

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:i think slow age is viable in only one circumstance and thats when you dont have a shipment and youre almost out of res

In which case you shouldn't age anyway.

perhaps yeah, sometimes u need 2 falcs to compete with inf mass though. Anyway regarding your opinions, i dont see a problem with a small buff to xbow and a small nerf to semi ff play, its what most people want regarding the state of the current meta
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Dec 2018, 17:46

Kaiserklein wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Ok fr and ger are top tier. That's new.
Meanwhile you complain about the fast age getting nerfed

Fre and Ger at top tier yea. And I complain about the fast age up getting nerfed because it's stupid design-wise, and it nerfs Port, while it's an average civ.

How do you want anyone to take you seriously while writing this kind of bs?

I'd say that Ger is the 3rd best civ, and France the 4th. Isn't that top tier?
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France Kaiserklein
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17 Dec 2018, 17:52

Except they aren't
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Dec 2018, 17:55

Lol, this kind of comments reminds me of garja.

Well, France wins the following MUs (+1):
India, Aztecs, Spain, Port and Russia
And does ok in all the other MUs (+0.5)
=> +8.5

Germany wins the following MUs (+1):
China, Iro, Dutch, Russia, Port
And does ok in all the other MUs (+0.5)
=>8.5

Now if they aren't 3rd and 4th, find me 2 civs which score more than 8.5
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France Kaiserklein
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17 Dec 2018, 18:04

First of all you (as usual) only take into account arkansas basically. You just totally forget about water, no tp, big tp lines, livestock, etc. And ger/fre just so happen to get rather fucked on water and no tp, while some civs (like india/brit/dutch) are totally fine on almost any map. And then, I just totally disagree with your opinions of the match ups.

France doesn't beat india and it's close vs ports (depends on the map). I'd say they lose to iro/sioux/brits though it's close and it depends on the map too.
Ger doesn't beat china or ports, it's close. Not sure vs dutch anymore but it's not a clear win for germany. It also loses to brits and sioux.

I'd rather be india, brits, dutch, sioux or even iro than fr/ger, so I don't rank them tier 1, but tier 2. Maybe slightly above average if at all
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Italy Garja
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17 Dec 2018, 18:09

Boneng had a good point even though is worth pointing out that he was sort of representing the Japanese community (or RE community in general) behind all that argument.
Bad balance ultimately killed the competitive scene so balance and game activity go in the same direction.
As for the number of changes, ye I also think it's way too big. It's not about which change is ok and which is not. The point of reference should be that if no strictly necessary there shouldn't be changes. QOL of life changes are ok if they are hidden (e.g bug fixes), but civ changes aimed at improving QOL just impact on people perception of the civ so should be adopted only if necessary.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Dec 2018, 18:25

Kaiserklein wrote:First of all you (as usual) only take into account arkansas basically. You just totally forget about water, no tp, big tp lines, livestock, etc. And ger/fre just so happen to get rather fucked on water and no tp, while some civs (like india/brit/dutch) are totally fine on almost any map. And then, I just totally disagree with your opinions of the match ups.

France doesn't beat india and it's close vs ports (depends on the map). I'd say they lose to iro/sioux/brits though it's close and it depends on the map too.
Ger doesn't beat china or ports, it's close. Not sure vs dutch anymore but it's not a clear win for germany. It also loses to brits and sioux.

I'd rather be india, brits, dutch, sioux or even iro than fr/ger, so I don't rank them tier 1, but tier 2. Maybe slightly above average if at all

No TP maps don't matter because if you get one you can just rehost in custom games, or just don't play fre/ger on it in tourney. No TP maps shouldn't even exist anyway.

France does beat India, and although Port can do well, France has the edge because Port can't really deal effectively with the falcs, and in late age 3 cuirs just rape cassa. Also France should outmass in middle age 3.
Iro is a tough MU but they don't really lose to brit/Sioux, it's close.

From my experience Germany beats Ports. I'm not sure about China, but on the RE with RE uhlans, Germany used to win (that would still make Germany the 5th civ ie still top tier). And they don't lose to brit for sure, and although I've never played Sioux vs Germany on the EP, I don't think that Sioux wins it easily, considering Germany used to have an easy time on the RE.
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European Union scarm
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17 Dec 2018, 18:43

Maybe we should also look at the Age of empires 1 DE and the changes from that RE if you want to make EP with it as possible aoe3:de in mind (which i don't think you should because that's very ambitious and might very well not happen, but really i am not in the position that my opinion matters much.)

https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Ag ... ve_Edition
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France Kaiserklein
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17 Dec 2018, 18:46

That's when I stop arguing cause you just said no tp maps shouldn't exist. I can't take you seriously. And anyway you just say some match ups go this way, I say they go that way, it's leading to nowhere
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Austria supahons
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17 Dec 2018, 18:58

The EP is mainly interesting for Lt+ and for tournaments, so most of the small aoe3 playerbase will already never care to install it. And then there are those, who will only stick to the official RE version and are quite inactive, once they have reached ~Captain rank.
Imo, if most of the top players like the changes, and it leads to interesting tournament games, then change it. If it divides the small player base further, then don't. Maybe discuss the changes before the actual release. Some changes seem indeed unnecessary to me too, but i don't think that this early leak is helpful.
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Poland pecelot
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17 Dec 2018, 19:14

Kaiserklein wrote:First of all you (as usual) only take into account arkansas basically. You just totally forget about water, no tp, big tp lines, livestock, etc. And ger/fre just so happen to get rather fucked on water and no tp, while some civs (like india/brit/dutch) are totally fine on almost any map. And then, I just totally disagree with your opinions of the match ups.

well, the only playable map should be mirrored Arkansas with fixed crates and fixed treasures :hehe:
I see a pikeman and I want it painted grey :geek:
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United States of America Cometk
ESOC Media Team
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17 Dec 2018, 20:06

saying no tp maps shouldn’t exist is like saying no water maps shouldn’t exist
Last edited by edeholland on 17 Dec 2018, 20:26, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typo
sebnan12 wrote:whenever i see a picture of siege elephants i question why they do 40~ dmg when they hit u. that phat cannons probably loading coconuts
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Dec 2018, 20:13

Cometk wrote:saying no tp maps shouldn’t exist is like saying no water maps shouldn’t exist

No, because no TP maps break the balance, while water maps add viable options. Also water maps add something (the sea), while no TP maps lack something (TPs).

Likewise, maps without hunts ,maps without gold mines or maps where you can't build a rax shouldn't exist.
Last edited by edeholland on 17 Dec 2018, 20:26, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: typo
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United States of America n0el
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17 Dec 2018, 20:13

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Cometk wrote:saying no to maps shouldn’t exist is like saying no water maps shouldn’t exist

No, because no TP maps break the balance, while water maps add viable options. Also water maps add something (the sea), while no TP maps lack something (TPs).

That makes no sense. Can you explain your thought process there?
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Dec 2018, 20:14

n0el wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Cometk wrote:saying no to maps shouldn’t exist is like saying no water maps shouldn’t exist

No, because no TP maps break the balance, while water maps add viable options. Also water maps add something (the sea), while no TP maps lack something (TPs).

That makes no sense. Can you explain your thought process there?

Well, the game is unbalanced on no TP maps, do you really want me to explain that?
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United States of America n0el
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17 Dec 2018, 20:16

But it is balanced on water?
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France [Armag] diarouga
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17 Dec 2018, 20:17

n0el wrote:But it is balanced on water?

Yes?
You can beat a water boom on a std map, while you can't win an hopeless MU on no TP maps.
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Turkey HUMMAN
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17 Dec 2018, 20:18

Well i was defender of map diversity, but i agree with rouga. Tp's does not affect all civs in similar way, actually it a must for some civs. So you must either make civs similar in terms of tp dependence-which is not possible or not fun to begin with- or choose tp's as a standart game feature. It's probably in same affect as no hunt only berries map, but no one ever tries to make a map like that, dont even mentioning nobody wants to play in it. Tp is not a niche difference, non-tp maps should be niche maps. And while non-tp maps are fun too, i dont see why should they be legit. In tourneys we see a pool of civs in non-tp maps, and a pool of civs on tp maps. If balance is made and tourneys played in tp maps, we would observe a greater possibility of MU's, since combination is higher mathematically given all civs are balanced considering tp maps. Ironically it would also increase depth in the game.
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