EP 7.0.x Smackdown [2019-09-22]

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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

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Post by EAGLEMUT »

musketeer925 wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:
musketeer925 wrote:How did you go about doing this? I assume you didn't manually edit every card...

Well, not by hand... I wrote a little script in python to iterate over all card techs and copy paste all their effects one more time.

Ah okay, I wondered if you were doubling numbers, but this makes sense. Modifying the numbers on ResourceExchange effects would probably make more sense, e.g., on HCXPFurTrade making it a 1.50 instead of 1.25 multiplier, as having the effect duplicated does nothing. Similarly, anything that using an "Assign" data modifier (see HCXPNationalUnity, HCMercenaryLoyalty, HCMosqueConstruction, HCCheapMarketsTeam, HCCheapDocksTeam, HCXPWarChiefAztec2, HCXPOldWaysIroquois, others...) may behave in a more logically "doubled" way by modifying the numbers.

I've fixed all of those issues with a single line!
EAGLEMUT wrote:(where applicable)

:P
There will definitely be cards that don't make full use of this bonus while they could with a little reimagination. However, for the purpose of a one-time fun event, the current implementation seems sufficient. So far I haven't touched anything manually, although I'm not ruling out possible tweaks, given that something is found to be a gamebreaking issue or we're missing out on some interesting combo. I'm also a bit wary of that since manually fixing one card could make the whole thing appear more inconsistent in a way. Things like enabling an action or setting some cost to a specific absolute value will consistently effectively not be doubled right now, and it should be quite apparent from the detailed card descriptions in-game.
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by musketeer925 »

Of course the enables can't be doubled, but many of the "assign" cards simply say "reduce the costs of" in the description, and Assign has been used to pick a specific cost, even though it could have just as easily been coded with a 0.67% base percent effect, so it might seem weird to players that some cards that reduce costs of things (e.g., Thoroughbreds) do apply twice, yet others such as those I listed above do not. However the cards in question aren't too common anyway, so it's probably not particularly important.
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by edeholland »

musketeer925 wrote:Of course the enables can't be doubled, but many of the "assign" cards simply say "reduce the costs of" in the description, and Assign has been used to pick a specific cost, even though it could have just as easily been coded with a 0.67% base percent effect, so it might seem weird to players that some cards that reduce costs of things (e.g., Thoroughbreds) do apply twice, yet others such as those I listed above do not. However the cards in question aren't too common anyway, so it's probably not particularly important.
Would be good to know if cards that reduce building costs or building time by 50% or more are doubled. Free, instant buildings would be quite a strong way to farm XP.
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by pecelot »

Indeed — could you briefly tell us what kind of shipments are likely not to be affected? :?
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

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Post by musketeer925 »

If you have the detailed descriptions on, you can tell there. If it shows a percent change, it will apply twice, but if it shows "Sets cost to...", then it will not have any doubled effect.

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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by dansil92 »

musketeer925 wrote:If you have the detailed descriptions on, you can tell there. If it shows a percent change, it will apply twice, but if it shows "Sets cost to...", then it will not have any doubled effect.

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- wont build limits be a problem potentially? Factories have a build limit of 2 iirc and same with if you ship 2 fort wagons but can only build 1?
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by EAGLEMUT »

dansil92 wrote:- wont build limits be a problem potentially? Factories have a build limit of 2 iirc and same with if you ship 2 fort wagons but can only build 1?

Factories don't have a build limit, for fort there are different cards - some do increase the build limit, some don't.
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by dansil92 »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
dansil92 wrote:- wont build limits be a problem potentially? Factories have a build limit of 2 iirc and same with if you ship 2 fort wagons but can only build 1?

Factories don't have a build limit, for fort there are different cards - some do increase the build limit, some don't.


Sorry to spam with questions but aztec can get free fishing ships and all canoes & russia can get free instant training priests, correct?

Who is playing this smackdown?
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by momuuu »

dansil92 wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:
dansil92 wrote:- wont build limits be a problem potentially? Factories have a build limit of 2 iirc and same with if you ship 2 fort wagons but can only build 1?

Factories don't have a build limit, for fort there are different cards - some do increase the build limit, some don't.


Sorry to spam with questions but aztec can get free fishing ships and all canoes & russia can get free instant training priests, correct?

Who is playing this smackdown?

Lets hope its not aizamk. His experience with priest rushes gives him an unfair advantage.
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by edeholland »

Yes, priests can be spammed instantly and without cost. Fishing boats may become free, but honestly I am not sure if that's even significant in this ridiculous game mode. Instant walls (without even walking to the foundation) seems like a much bigger problem.
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by edehollandsbrother »

I can imagine 'Advanced Mill' being problematic if it gives the 50% reduction twice. Someone should check the file to check.
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by EAGLEMUT »

The way those effects stack, you actually get a 100w mill.
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

Post by dansil92 »

edeholland wrote:Yes, priests can be spammed instantly and without cost. Fishing boats may become free, but honestly I am not sure if that's even significant in this ridiculous game mode. Instant walls (without even walking to the foundation) seems like a much bigger problem.


Thanks @edeholland
Lol build enough houses for 200 pop ship cheap priests, delete all but one vil just in case and spam instant free priests with boyars @30% 18 coss & 26 strel. Instant walls for brits with nearly free manors and india getting 2 vills every shipment and 60% camel atrack...
Goodbye balance hello chaos
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2019-01-13]

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Post by musketeer925 »

In short, I am excited for this smackdown
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Re: EP 5.1.x Smackdown [2018-12-20]

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Reverted to 5.1.1.0-S2; card effects not doubled anymore.
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-02-14]

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Post by EAGLEMUT »

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EP 6.0.0.0-S1 [2019-02-14]
changelog since EP 5.1.1.0-S2 / 6.0.0.0

General
- Merged EP6 changes.
- All Asian Fortress Age wonders build-points reduced to 135 (down from 145).
- All Fortress Age politicians/councilors standard age-time reduced to 100s (down from 110s).
– "The Exiled Prince” & Fortress Age "The Messenger" age-time increased to 50s (up from 45s).
- "Mohawk Statesman" (III) politician now grants 7 Native Iroquois Tomahawks (changed from 3 Native Mantlets + 2 Native Scouts).
- "The Gentlemen Pirate" (III) politician now grants 3 Barbary Corsairs + 1 Privateer (up from 2 Barbary Corsairs + 1 Privateer).

Dutch
- "The Sergeant at Arms" (III) politician now grants 6 Halberdiers (up from 5).

Germans
- "The Sergeant at Arms" (III) politician now grants 4 Doppelsoldners (up from 3).

Spanish
- "The Adventurer" (III) politician now grants 9 Crossbowmen (changed from 4 Crossbowmen + 4 Pikemen).

Aztecs
- The Wise Woman (III) tribal councilor now grants +10% to Farm and Plantation gather rate, 2 Farm Travois, 5 Llamas (up from +10% to Farm and Plantation gather rate, 1 Farm Travois).
- The Shaman (III) tribal councilor now grants +15% War/Nobles' Hut att/hp, 2 Nobles' Hut Travois and 1 Warrior Priest (up from +10% War/Nobles' Hut att/hp, 2 Nobles' Hut Travois).

Iroquois
- The Warrior (III) tribal councilor now grants 6 Forest Prowlers + 1 Travois (changed from 4 Mantlets + 1 Travois).
- The Shaman (III) tribal councilor now grants 300 XP + 3 Travois (up from 3 Travois).
- The Chief (III) tribal councilor now grants 7 Villagers + 1 Travois (up from 4 Villagers + 1 Travois).

Sioux
- The Shaman (III) tribal councilor now grants a shipment (changed from crates of 1000f).
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

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Post by EAGLEMUT »

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EP 6.0.1.0-S1 [2019-03-17]
changelog since EP 6.0.0.0-S1 / 6.0.1.0

General
- Merged EP 6.0.1.0 changes.
- All civilizations now begin with a Fort Wagon.
- Fort can now be built in any age.
- Enabled Fort upgrade technologies for all civilizations.
- Enabled unit training at the Fort for all civilizations that did not have that ability yet, as detailed below.

Aztecs
- The following units can now be trained at the Fort:
  • Coyote Runner
  • Macehualtin
  • Puma Spearman
  • Eagle Runner Knight
  • Jaguar Prowl Knight

Iroquois
- The following units can now be trained at the Fort:
  • Aenna
  • Tomahawk
  • Forest Prowler
  • Kanya Horseman
  • Musket Rider

Sioux
- The following units can now be trained at the Fort:
  • Cetan Bow
  • War Club
  • Wakina Rifleman
  • Axe Rider
  • Bow Rider
  • Rifle Rider
  • Tashunke Prowler

Japanese
- The following units can now be trained at the Fort:
  • Yumi Archer
  • Ashigaru Musketeer
  • Samurai
  • Naginata Rider
  • Yabusame
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

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Post by Interjection »

You are amazing, I just imagined a fort for every civ but you thought to add upgrades and unit training functionality for every civ ❤️❤️
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

Post by Dsy »

General
- "The Naturalist" (II) politician now grants 4 Cows and 3 Settlers (up from 4 Cows).
- "The Bishop" (II) politician now grants a shipment (changed from 2 Settlers).
- "The Philosopher Prince" (II) politician cost reduced by 100f, now grants 400f in crates (down from 500f).
- All Asian Fortress Age wonders build-points reduced to 135 (down from 145).
- All Fortress Age politicians/councilors standard age-time reduced to 100s (down from 110s).
– "The Exiled Prince” & Fortress Age "The Messenger" age-time increased to 50s (up from 45s).
- "Mohawk Statesman" (III) politician now grants 7 Native Iroquois Tomahawks (changed from 3 Native Mantlets + 2 Native Scouts).
- "The Gentlemen Pirate" (III) politician now grants 3 Barbary Corsairs + 1 Privateer (up from 2 Barbary Corsairs + 1 Privateer).

Dutch
- "The Sergeant at Arms" (III) politician now grants 6 Halberdiers (up from 5).

Germans
- "The Naturalist" (II) politician now grants 4 Cows, 1 Settler and 1 Settler Wagon (up from 4 Cows).
- "The Sergeant at Arms" (III) politician now grants 4 Doppelsoldners (up from 3).

Spanish
- "The Adventurer" (III) politician now grants 9 Crossbowmen (changed from 4 Crossbowmen + 4 Pikemen).


I think politician changes should be implemented into main EP patch.
Some stuffs:
- "The Bishop" (II) politician now grants a shipment - technically how?
- "The Philosopher Prince" (II) politician cost reduced by 100, now grants 400f in crates (down from 500f) - from my personal experience 700-to 800 food is very quick since then you have a lot of vills all on hunts. So in conclusion i think it should stay on 500f (600villsec). (note 400w is 800 villsec)

Suggestion also implement only age 2 politician changes first. Prectice get experience and until its finished start focusing on age 3 stuffs.
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

Post by Mitoe »

Dsy wrote:- "The Bishop" (II) politician now grants a shipment - technically how?

It just grants you a shipment, no experience, so the politician doesn't influence the experience curve that makes each subsequent shipment more expensive.

- "The Philosopher Prince" (II) politician cost reduced by 100, now grants 400f in crates (down from 500f) - from my personal experience 700-to 800 food is very quick since then you have a lot of vills all on hunts. So in conclusion i think it should stay on 500f (600villsec). (note 400w is 800 villsec)

I don't like that. The problem with the 500f vs 400w is that it's always been a question of which one is worth more villager seconds, and the answer was always going to be 400w. So instead of increasing the amount of food to equal the villager seconds, the idea was to have a very clear trade-off: faster age time in exchange for less villager seconds. If you make it cheaper and leave it at 500f then you end up with a situation where the Philosopher Prince will always be the better option if it means you can age a vill earlier, while 400w will always be better if you can't age a vill earlier, instead of a conscious decision.
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

Post by Dsy »

Going from 700f to 800f is like 10 seconds.
400f is 476 villsec. 400w is 800 villsec.

I think you can clearly see that 400w is a suerior choiche if you reduce the food to 400. Food option only becomes viable if it stays on 500 with the age up cost reduction.
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

Post by Mitoe »

Dsy wrote:Going from 700f to 800f is like 10 seconds.
400f is 476 villsec. 400w is 800 villsec.

I think you can clearly see that 400w is a suerior choiche if you reduce the food to 400. Food option only becomes viable if it stays on 500 with the age up cost reduction.

This is not quite true. It would be 10 seconds if you were idling your TC, but you almost never want to idle your TC in the early game for that long. If you're going to idle for 10 seconds then you'd rather just train an extra villager, so being able to use this politician to age 1 vill sooner is closer to 25 seconds faster.

And yes, that does make 400w still the superior politician in most situations, but that's fine. Philosopher Prince fulfilling a niche is still better than it is at the moment.
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

Post by Dsy »

I'd wait for 8 sec and age up with 400w rather 8 sec earlier with 400f.
It will be the same as now. Everyone will use 400w instead of 400f. And the changes supposed to aim bringing choices to the game. Its not a choice this way.

And it doesnt matter if TC is idle in theorycal comparison. First line which is matter.
If you age up with 15 vills for example at 3. min. I can just wait 3:08 and age up the same villager count with much better outcome.

If a civ has both 400w and 700-400f choice its no brainer this way.
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

Post by Kaiserklein »

700f for 400f is a good politician. Being able to idle your tc less or to age up earlier is a nice bonus, that you can't really calculate in VS. It's not true that everyone would still use 400w, depending on the strat 400f might be better (for example if you want to rush or to straight ff).
And you're talking about 8s from 700 to 800f, which is true only if you have 15v gathering food already. But let's say you're france and wanna go 12/10, you're most likely going to have only 9 cdbs at that point. Or if you're otto, maybe 9 vils if you didn't get your 3 vil shipment yet (depending on the TP). There's a bunch of situations where this 100f difference could be big.

The only thing I dislike about 400f is that it's a direct buff to civs that don't have 400w, instead of being an alternative. It's especially very good for brits, but even spain could probably work some strong build around it.
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Re: EP 6.0.x Smackdown [2019-03-17]

Post by Hazza54321 »

cant really measure 700f age up and +400 on sheer maths, it can provide priceless advantages. e.g. hero hp boost and att in any age 1 fights (get a tp up before your opponent kills him), send your first shipment faster and have ur rush/ ff much faster (if spain aged 15 secs faster means their ff is 15 secs faster, or similar with russia but u get 5 coss in base way earlier perhaps before you opponent has aged sometimes)

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