ESOC in game modification organisation

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Hungary Dsy
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ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Dsy »

Hey!

Im just curious who is making the ESOC patch. Diaruga usually says Zoe only one who is making changes for in game contents.
I dont find any list on those team members.
Only dev team but they aren not involved in making game changes.
Business, community, media, maps are the others.

I think people who are involved changing game contents should be listed. (Maybe also give a description whats the formal decision making between those members vote or something)
Its not a good direction if patch team is working under shadows.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Dsy wrote:Hey!

Im just curious who is making the ESOC patch. Diaruga usually says Zoe only one who is making changes for in game contents.
I dont find any list on those team members.
Only dev team but they aren not involved in making game changes.
Business, community, media, maps are the others.

I think people who are involved changing game contents should be listed. (Maybe also give a description whats the formal decision making between those members vote or something)
Its not a good direction if patch team is working under shadows.

Well, ESOC wanted to hide it but by now everyone knows it. Zoi is the EP leader and he removed the EP team, so he's the only person who's officially involved in the changes.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Dsy »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Dsy wrote:Hey!

Im just curious who is making the ESOC patch. Diaruga usually says Zoe only one who is making changes for in game contents.
I dont find any list on those team members.
Only dev team but they aren not involved in making game changes.
Business, community, media, maps are the others.

I think people who are involved changing game contents should be listed. (Maybe also give a description whats the formal decision making between those members vote or something)
Its not a good direction if patch team is working under shadows.

Well, ESOC wanted to hide it but by now everyone knows it. Zoi is the EP leader and he removed the EP team, so he's the only person who's officially involved in the changes.


Thats why i wrote. Even if its 1 member who is involved in ingame changes, he/she needs to be listed!
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

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Post by Kaiserklein »

Lol they weren't trying to hide it. The patch team has never been listed because people involved are not esoc staff. Diarouga you know that very well since you were in that team at some point...
Anyway who gives a crap
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kaiserklein wrote:Lol they weren't trying to hide it. The patch team has never been listed because people involved are not esoc staff. Diarouga you know that very well since you were in that team at some point...
Anyway who gives a crap

The patch team was listed at some point, we even had a special color for our name, but it was removed because some guys believed that Zoi was part of the ESOC staff (because of his purple name), and complained about staff members trolling them.
PS: True story lol
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by XeeleeFlower »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Dsy wrote:Hey!

Im just curious who is making the ESOC patch. Diaruga usually says Zoe only one who is making changes for in game contents.
I dont find any list on those team members.
Only dev team but they aren not involved in making game changes.
Business, community, media, maps are the others.

I think people who are involved changing game contents should be listed. (Maybe also give a description whats the formal decision making between those members vote or something)
Its not a good direction if patch team is working under shadows.

Well, ESOC wanted to hide it but by now everyone knows it. Zoi is the EP leader and he removed the EP team, so he's the only person who's officially involved in the changes.
This is simply not true. There are many people involved in the process of the EP. Zoi may be the leader of it, but he gets valuable input from many other members. I won't list them all here because I may miss someone, but it's not just 1 sole person who does all the work and makes all the decisions. Zoi did not remove the EP team. ESOC didn't and isn't hiding anything. Please stop spreading misinformation.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

XeeleeFlower wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Dsy wrote:Hey!

Im just curious who is making the ESOC patch. Diaruga usually says Zoe only one who is making changes for in game contents.
I dont find any list on those team members.
Only dev team but they aren not involved in making game changes.
Business, community, media, maps are the others.

I think people who are involved changing game contents should be listed. (Maybe also give a description whats the formal decision making between those members vote or something)
Its not a good direction if patch team is working under shadows.

Well, ESOC wanted to hide it but by now everyone knows it. Zoi is the EP leader and he removed the EP team, so he's the only person who's officially involved in the changes.
This is simply not true. There are many people involved in the process of the EP. Zoi may be the leader of it, but he gets valuable input from many other members. I won't list them all here because I may miss someone, but it's not just 1 sole person who does all the work and makes all the decisions. Zoi did not remove the EP team. ESOC didn't and isn't hiding anything. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Although he asks the opinion of some people, he is the one who makes all the decisions, which is the big issue.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Cometk »

@Dsy, @EAGLEMUT is the one who implements all the balance changes into the code for the EP. in the past the dev who implemented the code was @Rikikipu, and maybe even earlier than that was @musketeer925 (please correct me if i’ve got my history wrong!)
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Dsy wrote:Hey!

Im just curious who is making the ESOC patch. Diaruga usually says Zoe only one who is making changes for in game contents.
I dont find any list on those team members.
Only dev team but they aren not involved in making game changes.
Business, community, media, maps are the others.

I think people who are involved changing game contents should be listed. (Maybe also give a description whats the formal decision making between those members vote or something)
Its not a good direction if patch team is working under shadows.

Hey,

there are two sides to this. The dev team is absolutely involved in making all game changes, specifically I have been the "manager" of changes going in since EP3, and have personally implemented most of them since that time.
Zoi is not part of the development team and he isn't submitting code changes to the patch. Zoi is currently acting as the EP "Balance Lead", superseding Goodspeed in that position. He is in contact with numerous high level players from the community, gathering their feedback on changes and deciding how to move forward. He's also in close contact with me, regarding the implementation of said changes.

The descriptions on team page are a bit short, I do have "Currently in charge of ESOC-Patch development" there, which is kind of supposed to mean this.
Hope that clears things up.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

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Post by Hazza54321 »

Jesus Christ not another ep thread, zoi is patch leader, deal with it
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Dsy »

Okey but please put his name on the ESOC patch team then:
https://eso-community.net/memberlist.php?mode=team
His name isnt even shown. And there is not even an ESOC patch category.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Kaiserklein »

Who cares if his name is there lol
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Lol they weren't trying to hide it. The patch team has never been listed because people involved are not esoc staff. Diarouga you know that very well since you were in that team at some point...
Anyway who gives a crap

The patch team was listed at some point, we even had a special color for our name, but it was removed because some guys believed that Zoi was part of the ESOC staff (because of his purple name), and complained about staff members trolling them.
PS: True story lol

This is actually true and a fun part of ESOC history. Either way, the notion that ESOC would want to hide or cover up anything regarding the patch team is nonsense and quite frankly a sad and deliberate attempt from diarouga to undermine the team.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Dsy »

Everyone. Since all this community built on ESOC patch. You need to know who are responsible for the changes.
Its much more important than any other discussions here.

Plus names also missing. Since there is Zoi patch leader, however he has advisors like it mentioned. It seems unorganized since all his friends more likely to be involved in patch decisions than anybody else.
I dont care these relationships, however you should name the ESOC patch team. Its not good to hide it.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by EAGLEMUT »

He is technically not part of the staff; has more like a "Consultant" relation, I guess? Zoi has no administrative power on the site, nor access to general staff sections / discussion servers, and he is generally not representing ESOC. As far as I'm aware, that state is intended and not an oversight. Perhaps some sort of tag with the right wording could be considered, but I know this was a point of confusion/disagreement in the past.

As for listing every single player Zoi has talked to on the Team page, that would cause insane confusion.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Dsy »

Somebody has to decide what changes will come the next EP release. If he is the only one who decide, he needs to take the responsibility for the changes.
People need to know where to look when they want to discuss EP future and criticize changes.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by edeholland »

Dsy wrote:People need to know where to look when they want to discuss EP future and criticize changes.
That's where this board is for: https://eso-community.net/viewforum.php?f=80 :hmm:
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Dsy »

edeholland wrote:
Dsy wrote:People need to know where to look when they want to discuss EP future and criticize changes.
That's where this board is for: https://eso-community.net/viewforum.php?f=80 :hmm:


Yes there is a discussion but we dont get notification that 1 guy will decide everything about those topics.
Since people arent writing patch discussions for fun. They want to see changes and they deserve to know who are responsible.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Kaiserklein »

Dsy wrote:Everyone. Since all this community built on ESOC patch. You need to know who are responsible for the changes.
Its much more important than any other discussions here.

Plus names also missing. Since there is Zoi patch leader, however he has advisors like it mentioned. It seems unorganized since all his friends more likely to be involved in patch decisions than anybody else.
I dont care these relationships, however you should name the ESOC patch team. Its not good to hide it.

No, pretty sure no one actually cares, besides you. It's definitely way less important than most discussions here.
And for the record, this community was built before there was even a patch. It's not built on the patch.

And no, Zoi doesn't ask advice to his friends. He's asking advice to top players. And he's also taking into account the community's opinion (which is why lots of changes were aborted or reduced). For example, I discussed quite a bit with him, but I'm not at all an esoc staff member lol, I don't want my name written there just for a couple hours of discussions, it's absurd. There is no "patch team" strictly speaking.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

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Post by XeeleeFlower »

Kaiserklein wrote:And no, Zoi doesn't ask advice to his friends.
If he did, then Sioux would have this feature that allowed vills to garrison into their teepees and you could then ungarrison them from a different and safer teepee. :P
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Lol, free nydus wtf.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Dsy »

So basicly in gs time there was a balance team (only top players if i remember right) they refused every changes ("changes meta") so gs left.
Zoi took over removed EP team so he could make more changes.

I mean its kinda funny.
But still there is a reason why not to accept only top players in EP team. You need to make a game for everyone not only for tournament players.
There is also a reason why not accept only regular player in EP team. You need to balance on high level.

So Zoi now listening both camps like a president/dictator (depends on you like him or hate him). Making changes alone.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Dsy wrote:So basicly in gs time there was a balance team (only top players if i remember right) they refused every changes ("changes meta") so gs left.
Zoi took over removed EP team so he could make more changes.

I mean its kinda funny.
But still there is a reason why not to accept only top players in EP team. You need to make a game for everyone not only for tournament players.
There is also a reason why not accept only regular player in EP team. You need to balance on high level.

So Zoi now listening both camps like a president/dictator (depends on you like him or hate him). Making changes alone.

This is completely incorrect. The "balance team" of select defined players existed only for a relatively short time (EP1 / EP2 ?), and Goodspeed remained the EP Balance Lead for several balance iterations after, up until EP6. Goodspeed passed the position since he was no longer that much interested in it, as far as I know. Zoi has also been working very closely with Goodspeed during the time Goodspeed led balance, so it was a very logical replacement. Finally, Zoi is not making changes alone without considering player feedback, as evidenced by other replies in this very thread.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by Dsy »

Gs wrote once: "if there would have been much more changes in aoe3 maybe i'd ve stayed" or something like this.
Diarouga also wrote: "Gs wanted to implement new meta with every patch"

I just wanted to implement these into the story.
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Re: ESOC in game modification organisation

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Dsy wrote:So basicly in gs time there was a balance team (only top players if i remember right) they refused every changes ("changes meta") so gs left.

There was a balance team for the first versions. Then, due to inactivity and internal issues (garja), it got deleted. GS didn't want to change the meta, his policy was to stay "close to the RE". I'm not sure why he said that he wanted the game to be changed, he either changed his mind 1 year ago or just wanted to support Zoi.

Zoi took over removed EP team so he could make more changes.

I mean its kinda funny.
But still there is a reason why not to accept only top players in EP team. You need to make a game for everyone not only for tournament players.

The ESOC Patch isn't the "Fun Patch", its first goal is to be a competitive patch for tournaments. If you're a low level player and you don't like it, you can just play on the RE, or on other patch (the Vane Patch, the Smackdown patch, the double shipment etc...). What you can't do however, is make the top players play on an unbalanced patch because you think it's more fun.

There is also a reason why not accept only regular player in EP team. You need to balance on high level.

So Zoi now listening both camps like a president/dictator (depends on you like him or hate him). Making changes alone.

A president gets elected, Zoi didn't.

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