Fixed crates for Germany

[zoom]

I don't know if there is a German conspiracy but...

I find it hilarious that Japs have gotten way harder nerfed than Germany from RE. And I'm not even counting that EP maps have 3x more food than RE maps!
It's simply amusing to claim that the patch would be the same if somebody really cared about Kynesie or he was part of some balance team.

The current meta is absolute boredom. Match ups including fast age up civs are always played with almost identical build orders and units. Simply because it's so hard to counter it.
It's no longer a strategy game, it's rather a competition of being the biggest mechanic bot.

Unique playstyle like Kynesie does? First we nerf walls, then we move bastion to later age, then we nerf warships (after being already small whales) and in the end we nerf japan.
Then tell me that some people don't have any bias towards standard play?

Secondly, I don't understand the cry about that German nerfs would make German non-tp unplayable. They would be still playable. Why it's fine to have otto on non-tp but when we talk Germans, there is a huge riot that maybe they could (for the first time ever) fall under mediocre civ in certain maps?

First, I care about Kynesie's opinion at least as much as I would any other given player of his skill, and he personally told me he found the changes in EP6's final release reasonable.

Second, Japanese has not been nerfed as much as Germans, from RE, in terms of overall change in civilization strength.

Third, if Japanese is indeed considered underpowered according to the player-base, it will be buffed in the very next patch. Make no mistake about that.

[zoom]

I honestly don't understand whose idea it was to nerf japan while they were already mid tier…. @zoom 3 wood discount didn't give anything and I can say japan is borderline bottom/mid tier right, every civ can beat or do fine vs japan now that's hilarious isn't it?

Again, it's 5w, and it gives a bit. Also, please refer to my above post, responding to Cuckoo.

[Garja]

More like Zoi does the fuck he wants rather than listening who knows better (or realistically he selects the opinions he likes the most).
Anyway I don't understand people that claim Jap has been nerfed lol. Basically pavillion and shogun has been nerfed, which are mid-late game nerfs and shrine cost got buffed. How have they been nerfed?
Also if you think Jap is mid-tier aka sort of bad civ you have no clue.

[[Armag] diarouga]

More like Zoi does the fuck he wants rather than listening who knows better (or realistically he selects the opinions he likes the most).
Anyway I don't understand people that claim Jap has been nerfed lol. Basically pavillion and shogun has been nerfed, which are mid-late game nerfs and shrine cost got buffed. How have they been nerfed?
Also if you think Jap is mid-tier aka sort of bad civ you have no clue.

Japan was nerfed for sure. Shogunate nerf, wall nerf, pavillon nerf etc.

[zoom]

I don't know if there is a German conspiracy but...

I find it hilarious that Japs have gotten way harder nerfed than Germany from RE. And I'm not even counting that EP maps have 3x more food than RE maps!
It's simply amusing to claim that the patch would be the same if somebody really cared about Kynesie or he was part of some balance team.

The current meta is absolute boredom. Match ups including fast age up civs are always played with almost identical build orders and units. Simply because it's so hard to counter it.
It's no longer a strategy game, it's rather a competition of being the biggest mechanic bot.

Unique playstyle like Kynesie does? First we nerf walls, then we move bastion to later age, then we nerf warships (after being already small whales) and in the end we nerf japan.
Then tell me that some people don't have any bias towards standard play?

Secondly, I don't understand the cry about that German nerfs would make German non-tp unplayable. They would be still playable. Why it's fine to have otto on non-tp but when we talk Germans, there is a huge riot that maybe they could (for the first time ever) fall under mediocre civ in certain maps?

First, I care about Kynesie's opinion at least as much as I would any other given player of his skill, and he personally told me he found the changes in EP6's final release reasonable.

Second, Japanese has not been nerfed as much as Germans, from RE, in terms of overall change in civilization strength.

Third, if Japanese is indeed considered underpowered according to the player-base, it will be buffed in the very next patch. Make no mistake about that.

Fourth, walls and warships were not nerfed because they are walls and warships; they were nerfed because they were broken. You are mistaking correlation for causation.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Japan was definitely nerfed more than Germany. I'd play Jap vs Ger on the RE (although it's still a bad MU) rather than on the EP anyday.

[Garja]

Wall nerf is not a Japan nerf. Not only because it's not like other civs can't wall (and in fact it's useful vs ashi raids) but also because walls still do the work.
Shogunate was a bug so it doesn't count. Pavillion is a nerf but really doesn't change much, same for shogun hp buff. In the end all Japan nerfs were more like design required changesthan actual balance changes. Even 5% on ranged and hp bonus make no difference in how the civs perform in the end.

And ye I'd play more Japan vs anything on RE than on EP just cause RE maps are autowin for Japan.

[gibson]

More like Zoi does the fuck he wants rather than listening who knows better (or realistically he selects the opinions he likes the most).
Anyway I don't understand people that claim Jap has been nerfed lol. Basically pavillion and shogun has been nerfed, which are mid-late game nerfs and shrine cost got buffed. How have they been nerfed?
Also if you think Jap is mid-tier aka sort of bad civ you have no clue.

Also if you think jap ISNT a mid tier aka sort of bad civ you have no clue

[Garja]

Sure. Civs vs which Japan struggle: Aztecs and China. Maybe India, maybe Iro. Civs vs which Jap are at least at 50%: all the others.

[zoom]

More like Zoi does the fuck he wants rather than listening who knows better (or realistically he selects the opinions he likes the most).
Anyway I don't understand people that claim Jap has been nerfed lol. Basically pavillion and shogun has been nerfed, which are mid-late game nerfs and shrine cost got buffed. How have they been nerfed?
Also if you think Jap is mid-tier aka sort of bad civ you have no clue.

It is true that I am doing what the fuck I want, with the crucial detail, however, that I am doing so by actively trying to listen to everyone – especially Garja! It's notoriously simply the case, that you mistake not listening, only to you, for not listening, in general. There are many opinions and players to take into account.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Wall nerf is not a Japan nerf.

True, but it does affect Japan more than any civ, so in the end it's a jap nerf.

Shogunate was a bug so it doesn't count.

It was a bug, but also a huge nerf as a result, and nothing was done to compensate that. This argument is bs, if it nerfs the civ, then it's a nerf, and here it's a big one.

Pavillion is a nerf but really doesn't change much

Nah, Pavillon nerf is a big one too. People used to cry for -5 hp on uhlans, here it's bigger.

Overall, RE Japan is better than EP Japan, and it's not even a debate.

[gibson]

Civs that jap should have less than a 50 percent win rate vs on ep standard maps Aztec, India, Iro, German, French, Russia, Botto, Brit.

[gibson]

Honestly the biggest nerf to jap is the ep map pool tbh

[[Armag] diarouga]

India is fine I'd say. And you can beat botto although it's very hard, but the real issue is that you don't have any easy MUs.
Half of the match-ups are unwinnable, and the other half is equal (like beating Spain, China or Dutch is very hard if your opponent plays properly).

[007Salt]

lol is this another one of those... that civ just rekt me so now I'm pissed threads XD

[gibson]

India is fine I'd say. And you can beat botto although it's very hard, but the real issue is that you don't have any easy MUs.
Half of the match-ups are unwinnable, and the other half is equal (like beating Spain, China or Dutch is very hard if your opponent plays properly).

yea the 3 or so free mu wins they had on re are all gone. Maybe port on like cascade range is still really jap favored but its still hard vs a good opponent cause the fact jap just gets auto scouted. That really needs to be removed tbh.

[Frost Bite]

Thanks hazza... , oops wrong channel zzz.

[Garja]

True, but it does affect Japan more than any civ, so in the end it's a jap nerf.

It doesn't affect Japan more than other civs. Don't need to wall your whole base as Japan.

It was a bug, but also a huge nerf as a result, and nothing was done to compensate that. This argument is bs, if it nerfs the civ, then it's a nerf, and here it's a big one.[/url]

It is not a nerf if the feature was 10 miles ahead of where it should have been. Buff + nerf = 0. It's not like the starting point for balance takes into account that Japan as retarded broken age4 wonder.

Nah, Pavillon nerf is a big one too. People used to cry for -5 hp on uhlans, here it's bigger.

People cry because they are crybaby and because ulhan nerf does in affect some breaking point with some specific units.
5% attack hardly affects any breaking point when both ashi and yumi have ton of overkill. It was a nerf for the sake of it because 15% ranged just sounds too much and stacks with all other nonsense attack bonuses.

Overall, RE Japan is better than EP Japan, and it's not even a debate.

No shit, maps are autowin and bugged shogunate is too.

[Garja]

Civs that jap should have less than a 50 percent win rate vs on ep standard maps Aztec, India, Iro, German, French, Russia, Botto, Brit.

Ger, Fre no. Russia not really, imo. There are several version of jap cons strats which do well. Otto colonial are both nerfed so I'd say no. Maybe the FF is annoying but that's it. Brit is not a bad MU for Jap.

India is fine I'd say. And you can beat botto although it's very hard, but the real issue is that you don't have any easy MUs.
Half of the match-ups are unwinnable, and the other half is equal (like beating Spain, China or Dutch is very hard if your opponent plays properly).

Spain is not hard. China is one of the hardest. Dutch is easy unless something reall shit happens in age1.

[gibson]

Yes jap loses to german french russia and otto if its a tp map which is most ep maps. On non tp map its pretty even. Sure youll win a game or two here or there catching your opponent off guard, but thats the case for any mu and harder to do since jap gets auto scouted. China isnt even one of the hardest its pretty close lol. Spain is also bad on a tp map.

[[Armag] diarouga]

"brit is not a bad MU for jap", "Germany and Russia are fine MUs" xD

[Garja]

Yes. The fact that you don't win those MUs don't make them harder.

[Garja]

Yes jap loses to german french russia and otto if its a tp map which is most ep maps. On non tp map its pretty even. Sure youll win a game or two here or there catching your opponent off guard, but thats the case for any mu and harder to do since jap gets auto scouted. China isnt even one of the hardest its pretty close lol. Spain is also bad on a tp map.

Dafuq off guard. Vs Fre and Germans even just classic walling + semi works just fine, even tho I think there are better ways.
Vs Otto just do w/e to counter they doing. If colonial just go early jap cons/send units/ send w/e to hold pressure while not totally crippling your eco. Vs FF either straight counter with naked FF or go ashi aggro strat and outplay.
Vs Russia straight cons rush old school or simply do like I do kami+300w, switch cons on Jap right in transition and send like 600g daymio 5ashi and push. Can even rly just 4v + daymio + 5 ashi. Also can just skip cons at start and do normal rax start with jap cons and turn it into a semi boom strat. You age at 4.30 with 5 clubs ready before 5coss arrive. Shrine with 600w and add stable with 100exports at 8 min.

China is one of the hardest. China can either just FF, semi FF or semi FI. Standard Jap colo get rekt. Jap semi is too slow but might work miracolously with perfect macro and maybe a bit of wall to not get shitted in your base. Idk about China semi FI, maybe Jap can match it with their own.
Imo best for Jap is aggro yumi+club rush into normal colo. Just sounds the only strat with which you can control the game vs all opponent choices. Not sure it works vs semi FF stuff tho or specific all in FFs.

Spain is fuckin easy. Scout if they doing anything colonial, if not just naked FF with 600g 600g and 130/200 manor pop (add 2-3 more shrines while aging to 3). Age with shogunate cause you need daymio to train 4-5 yabusame for cannosn ASAP. You hit 3 at 8 min flat with 5 clubs 5 yumi a daymio and a card ready to send. Even ATP FF doens't work vs that since you still have great eco as Jap.
Vs colonial stuff just play normal Japan (if it's not a rush even naked FF will work probably). The hardest is probably ATP+colonial into aging but I don't think it's unwinnable.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yes. The fact that you don't win those MUs don't make them harder.

Except nobody wins those MUs.
Classic semi vs Germany is hopeless by the way. And your builds vs Russia are too slow to hold a rush. He will have units in your base before you can even age and you won't have time to build a rax.

And by the way, mankle used to do something similar vs Spain, and he lost 3-0 to piroshiki lol.

[Garja]

Except none plays Jap 100% which is what it takes to win games with complex civs. I sometimes play Jap for extended periods and I win those MUs.